Topic: Rate/Help Improve My System

[Nick's Picks]

is this your receiver ?
http://tinyurl.com/25frmv
i'd keep that.

get a new source (oppo !!)
new cables
new speakers

speaker placement, as Chris suggested is crucial.  Even w/what you are running you can make a huge improvement.  Go w/the basic triangle approach.

think of your listening position.  how far away from the speakers are you (in a straight line).
now space them out an equal distance (or a little less) so you are making a triangle w/equal distance from your head to each speaker, and them from each other.
pull the speakers out a solid foot from the rear wall, and equal distance from the side walls.
play some white noise.  you can generate some w/software and burn a disc. 
a dead radio station w/static noise will also work.

you will want to listen to pink or white noise to "dial in" the speakers.  the goal is to have the static sound like its a "ball of noise" that is hovering in mid air between the speakers.  Ideally, you will not be able to perceive the sound emanating from the speakers themselves.

start w/the speakers pointing dead ahead.  have someone (its easier w/two people, one listening and the other tweaking) move the speakers in towards your head (toed in) ...just like an inch or so at a time until you get that "ball affect".
You might find that the speakers end up pointing to your shoulders while you are seated in the "sweet spot" instead of the straight ahead stance of where you started.
or...maybe not.  depends on the speakers and the room, and how they play together.

Once you get that white noise dialed in as best you can (you may find it doesn't work at all due to limitations of the speakers performance..and if that is the case, get new speakers) then you can put on some music that you are very familiar with.  Start with studio stuff (real releases and not AUD taped) and see what you think. 

Hopefully, you will experience good imaging.  Meaning that the music sort of floats in air, comes from "nothing" instead of the speakers.  You'll hear voices, drums etc, coming from dead nuts between the speakers and not from the sides.  Other sounds may come from way outside the speakers, or even seem to come from behind.
In a perfect setup, the music is completely holographic and is all around you...and you absolutely can't tell that the speakers are even "on" as you can't sense them as the source of sound.

Thats what we strive for any way.


the Stereophile test CD #2 is excellent for seeing how things are working, and also has white/pink noise tracks.

[Nick's Picks]

one more thing...and you've sort of been led this way...

as a music lover, which you obviously are....
I'd start w/the Stereo w/your $3k budget.  You can do great things with $1500.
put the rest towards the recording rig.

getting into high end playback , I can honestly say, was the BEST thing I ever did in my musical pursuits.  I sold my "dream rig" to make it happen, and I have never, ever looked back.  my stereo has changed more times than my underwear, but I just love it to death.
with so many awesome recording rigs out there, and so many people recording the "mainstream" record-able acts..., its better to be able to listen to everyones stuff over your fat stereo.
there is my $.02.

[Mr.Fantasy]

Cool....thanks.

I only have one doubt about what you have been saying...and that is doubting the vintage speakers...I mean maybe they wouldn't be technically superior or anything, but I think they would smoke quite a few modern speakers I have heard in a head to head.

Maybe not.

Does anyone else use these speakers or maybe you used to have a pair....? Comments? 

I would consider changing them. But I would have to be convinced of the sound quality improvement......cause if there are way better speakers out there than these I need to hear them!!!!!

Wow....I got goose bumps thinking about it....

[Church-Audio]

I dunno about how good those jbl speakers are, but IMHO speakers are the 1st thing to upgrade.

Okay....well IMHO the JBL's sound great....I am soon to take them to my local Speaker Dr. and have him assess them....but from a literal interpretation of what I hear....it is full loud and clear....

What are some of the favorite Speaker brands.....?

The l100 JBL speakers are very nice indeed.. I had a pair. I would make sure the surrounds have not started to crack. An easy fix if they have but man they do sound very nice.

Chris

[Nick's Picks]

there ya go.
personally, I know nothing of these jbls...other than that they are old and technology has progressed and quality has become cheaper than it was 30 years ago.

[Nick's Picks]

Wow....I got goose bumps thinking about it....

the goal is goose bumps listening to it.
;-)

[cheshirecat]

there ya go.
personally, I know nothing of these jbls...other than that they are old and technology has progressed and quality has become cheaper than it was 30 years ago.

I honestly don't know if I believe that statement, speakers are different today, but I wouldn't always say better. 

The JBL L100s (retailed for $399/pair in 1971 which equates to $2029 in today's dollars) are very highly regarded for their time, along with the Large Advents and Marantz Imperial 6/7s... Nick, you sound like quite a tinkerer, I highly recommend getting out and trying some of the aforementioned speakers, I think you'll be surprised what you find.  They may not look sexy the way some of today's designs do, but they do sing. 

The only mods I did on the large advents were to rebuild the crossovers with solen caps and refoam the woofers... and I miss them, I sent them up to my brother's place and he is running them now.

[Church-Audio]

there ya go.
personally, I know nothing of these jbls...other than that they are old and technology has progressed and quality has become cheaper than it was 30 years ago.

I honestly don't know if I believe that statement, speakers are different today, but I wouldn't always say better. 

The JBL L100s (retailed for $399/pair in 1971 which equates to $2029 in today's dollars) are very highly regarded for their time, along with the Large Advents and Marantz Imperial 6/7s... Nick, you sound like quite a tinkerer, I highly recommend getting out and trying some of the aforementioned speakers, I think you'll be surprised what you find.  They may not look sexy the way some of today's designs do, but they do sing. 

The only mods I did on the large advents were to rebuild the crossovers with solen caps and refoam the woofers... and I miss them, I sent them up to my brother's place and he is running them now.

The best sounding speakers I ever owned for there size was a set of advent 3's I purchased at a salvation army for $3.00!!! for shits and giggles I hooked them up to my $3,000 stereo and sat them on top of my $1,500 speakers and my jaw hit the floor. They were made in 1974 and I have to say I now regret getting rid of them.. Age does effect speakers. But as long as they were never abused and the surrounds on the woofers are intact. They can rival anything made today. Speaker technology has not changed much in the last 50 years as far as how raw speakers are made. One notable exception is the magnetic material that the speakers magnets are made from. Older speakers Like advents and JBL'S used alnico magnets not ceramic that is used today.. They did sound different allot of people prefer the sound of alnico magnets over ceramic. I am one of them. Nobody makes speakers out of alnico anymore because its a very rare very expensive material. So not everything old is crap So I agree with cheshirecat 100%

[Mr.Fantasy]

I hope you are right too Mr. Church...

If so I have saved money already....

[Church-Audio]

I hope you are right too Mr. Church...

If so I have saved money already....

I think placement of the speakers is #1 I think its also important to have some nice power behind your speakers. You can always upgrade the rest of your system, and if you dont like the JBL speakers you own you can always ebay them for $400.00 or so.. So move on upgrade the rest of your gear IMO start with a good amp/receiver then look at your cd player ect. I think for $1500 we are not talking separate power amp and separate preamp. So this should narrow the field. Ask your self what you want to be able to do with this system is it strictly audio playback? if so you dont need a lot of bells and whistles in your receiver. If you want video as well as audio then you want to look at the surround features of the amp in question.. Just my two cents.. And remember opinions are like assholes everyone got one.. What sounds good to me might not sound good to you! so listen to the suggestions visit the stereo shop and decide for your self.. But be warned allot of stereo shops have things set up real nice.. I always listen to anything with a FLAT EQ... everything at 12o'clock on most stereos is theoreticly at least flat.. Then I always bring with me music that I am 100% familiar with. Don't listen to the shit the stereo salesman wants you to hear. He has already picked something that sounds very good on the stereo you want to listen too.. Be your own judge.. in the end its not me that is going to be setting in your living room dealing with your stereo its you!Chris

[Nick's Picks]

personally, if a stereo has tone controls, I don't want it.
but thats me.

for $1500, you can easily get separates (preamp / power amp).
there are some *wonderful* amps out there for $400 and under.  Classics...like the B&K ST-140 for example.  warm and fat sounding...a cult classic (and my first real amp as well).

I have recently become a huge fan/fluffer of Odyssey equipment.
check them out.  they sell a new system (no source) for $1500 that is a preamp, power amp and their "epiphany" monitors.  I've heard it is super.

One of my favorite low cost rigs I've built in the last few years consisted of a Music Hall MAMBO integrated amp and a pair of Epos M12.2 monitors.  It was quite awesome...for the $1000 I spent on the package.

[Nick's Picks]

oh...
and if you do decide to get new speakers...., its not easy ..., but VERY fun to play with a spanky new pair of (or used) ... Magnepan MMGs.

$550 brand new.  common around $350 used.

[cheshirecat]

The guy says he's happy with his speakers, so why change them?

Personally I'd look for some integrated amps to play with, try something with tubes, it will certainly be a different sound than you are used to with your pioneer.  Again, buy used and you can resell if you don't like it or if it isn't just exactly perfect.

I'd also look at your transport, get something nice.  People like the oppo gear since it hits a nice price point, but I personally haven't heard it.  Have fun with it and if you like something, stick with it.

[Nick's Picks]

the vintage system you currently run seems like no slouch...
if you can get that "ball of static" w/your current setup after some placement tweaking..., then just buy yourself a good source (dvd player).
"crap in, crap out"
rule of thumb.

the playback end of this hobbie is far more diverse than the recording end.  lots of trouble to get into.

[Nick's Picks]

The guy says he's happy with his speakers, so why change them?

just tossing out random thoughts.  opinions are like apples, remember?
oh..., wait, was that oranges? 
something like that.