Topic: James Randi Posts $1M Award On Speaker Cables

[Wiggler]

one of the beauties of this discussion group, is that some members can actually discuss their own recordings of bach, and how the recording techniques translate in critical playback and listening,... and how minor adjustments might make for substantiated, though subjective, opinion calls.

Are you talking about recording a Bach cover band.
Isn't that like recording Dark Star Orchestra? 

[Wiggler]

That sounds like fun.
Enjoy the evening Moke.

[SparkE!]

My recommendation for these cables came from the very person quoted in the bottom of your signature line.

You quoted Srajan, you know his "place" in the world of audio reviewing.
Srajan, and, my audio mentor, Tom, are friends, and speak all the time. Srajan was the spark that brought Tom into the AP fold.

Yes, I'm aware that Srajan is a big fan of the Analysis Plus cables.  In fact the quote in my sig line is from his review of AP's Big Silver Ovals on 6moons.com:

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/analysis+3/bigsilver.html

I thought the quoted aphorism was ironic, coming from a person that so often articulates his opinions with such platitudes as "The kernel of the tone remains the same but the halo around it has slightly more energy to reach farther into the surrounding space."  (This was included in his description of Big Silver Ovals.)

I mean no disrespect for Srajan because I think he truly is an expert in the field of high end audio gear.  In fact I found even greater respect for him when I read his words, "It's not that audiophiles are dumb. Most of us simply ain't engineers. Worse, neither are most reviewers (or manufacturers for that matter). We are thus nearly predestined to repeat, ad infinitum, certain maxims. Their apparent truths seems based mostly on stubborn longevity."

On the other hand, the truth I find in his quote is not entirely complete unless also presented with the other quotation in my sig line from the great Lern Tilton, upright bass player for the 4020 Band.

[RebelRebel]

one of the beauties of this discussion group, is that some members can actually discuss their own recordings of bach, and how the recording techniques translate in critical playback and listening,... and how minor adjustments might make for substantiated, though subjective, opinion calls.

That is true without doubt.

(Off topic, but I believe that some folks rush to switch gear before they have even learned all the ins and outs, rights and wrongs of a particular pair of mics, amp, etc..Moving a mic(or speakers) this way or can make such a drastic difference that it is impossible to get any sense of how they perform in a short period of time. Many times(at least in my own experience..and I dont know dick, and I suck at recording...honestly)I have blamed my microphones and other components in the recording or playback path when the reason(s) for the dismal experience all pointed at the room, placement decisions and my own shortcomings as a recording guy. While I Have bought and  sold way too many things in way too short a time, not putting blame where it mattered , now that I have a little bit of sense(not much)I get a bit sad when I see top notch mics being floated around like some college dorm or army barracks tramp.Any
 well made gear is capable of producing stunning results. It is Just a matter of knowing what one is dealing with.  Performance ,room, and ability of the person doing the recording(or listening) ie me)are the first places I look when I desire improvement.
I do wish that the Pro Audio/Audiophile manufacturers and dealers would devote as much time to research and good science as they do to developing that idiotic vernacular for the dramatic ad campaigns..some of which read more like some Fantasy Movie Trailer Voiceover script than ad for wire.  

AP..ive read so many good things about them that I am intrigued here..

[Nick's Picks]

why run the sf12 mid side ?
isn't it a fixed blumlein ?  running it mid side and then matrixing will result in blumlein any way.

[rokpunk]

From experience I can tell you that guys running half million+ dollar major concert PA systems aren't using multi-thousand dollar cables to interconnect their systems, they are using standard $25 XLR and speaker cables. The super high tech ones are using standard CAT5 at $.19/ft.


/just sayin'

[Wiggler]

I must say the best sounding sound system I have ever heard was the Deads.

This is from a interview with Dan Healy for absolute sound in 1993.
Well worth reading it can be found on this link.
http://kazart.com/bus_stop/gd_index.htm


FD: How about an audiophile question: What type of cable do you use?

DH: We use oxygen free copper. Made to our specifications--it's more rugged
than most. It also has a good capacitance specification--about 13 pf per
foot. The cable used in the snake [the long cable connecting the control
systems in the sound booth to the amplifiers on stage] has even less
capacitance, bout 6 pf per foot. I'm sure all the "hi-fi" guys are advocates
of that sort of thing... essentially, non-inductive speaker cable. Although I
think these considerations applied to a three foot length of [interconnect]
is a little bit ridiculous.

FD: The whole High End cable industry is built around differences in cables
and connectors and things like that.  Valid to a point, but a lot of it is
just an attempt to take advantage of people who want a new toy every couple
of months.

DH: That's marketing. I can understand that. Why not?

FD: But no manufacturer wants to reveal his trade secrets.

DH: That's because a lot of considerations are debatable as to their
validity. You can't really prove [whether one design is better than another],
so if your opinion is [that] it makes your sound system groovier, then go for
it! Although the differences in cables tend to be outweighed by the much
larger differences in the rest of the equipment. If you want to [improve the
sound of your system] there are so many other things you should attack.

[RebelRebel]

FD: The whole High End cable industry is built around differences in cables
and connectors and things like that////Valid to a point, but a lot of it is
just an attempt to take advantage of people If you want to [improve the
sound of your system] there are so many other things you should attack.

Good stuff right there.

Mike runnin 4 mics...This gonna be a more frequent thing?? Lord knows youve got the stereo thing down !

[Nick's Picks]

Mike.., now this is just from what I understand of the SF12/24 and M-S.
that mic is a fixed ribbon stereo mic.  Its two figure of 8s.  Its set in a fixed 90deg pattern and pointing it straight ahead levels you out at a 45deg mark to "point" at the source.

If you ran this mid side.
first, you'd want to turn the mic so that your blumlein clover leaf would be more of a + than an x.
then, by running those two channels through a matrix, you'd have some control over the depth I suppose, by adjusting that forward lobe.
but the output is still blumlein, and back to what the mic does natively any way.
I'm surprised there is much to be gained by doing it MS.  But, having that depth control must be the issue.
interesting.
+T for making me think this hard at 7am.

[SparkE!]

me,... I'm perfectly satisifed with canare ofc cable.

So do you use the AP cable or not?

[Colin Liston]

Challenge has been accepted:

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/calling-bullshit/updated-journalist-accepts-1-million-challenge-do-7250-cables-sound-better-or-not-311034.php

[boojum]

Well, no, the challenge has been met with another challenge, known also as a cop-out: "Fremer has also asked that interconnects be tested in addition to loudspeaker cables unless James Randi will concede that they affect sound quality."  So Fremer has put something out there to make it unpalatable to Randi who may turn it down and the loonies in the audiofool world will whoop he would not let them take the test.  Well, that is what I suspect.  Let's see.  We all know that in a double blind you should only be testing for one thing.  In this case the speaker cables.  Looks like the audiofools copped out.   

[BJ]

Well, no, the challenge has been met with another challenge, known also as a cop-out: "Fremer has also asked that interconnects be tested in addition to loudspeaker cables unless James Randi will concede that they affect sound quality."  So Fremer has put something out there to make it unpalatable to Randi who may turn it down and the loonies in the audiofool world will whoop he would not let them take the test.  Well, that is what I suspect.  Let's see.  We all know that in a double blind you should only be testing for one thing.  In this case the speaker cables.  Looks like the audiofools copped out.   

How very cynical you are.  I read every post by Randi on the subject, including the emails he copied over.  Nowhere does Fremer say they are tested at the SAME TIME.  I believe him to be issuing a challenge back at Randi saying he wants both "cables" tested under the same conditions.  This is why he gave him the option of "James Randi will concede that they affect sound quality".  He just wants Randi to admit that "cable" affects sound.  He clearly has accepted the challenge, and went further to push Randi into admitting that his challenge could be bs.  I do not see any cop out.  After all, if Randi will concede, then the speaker cables are all that is tested no?

[Tim]

Well, no, the challenge has been met with another challenge, known also as a cop-out: "Fremer has also asked that interconnects be tested in addition to loudspeaker cables unless James Randi will concede that they affect sound quality."  So Fremer has put something out there to make it unpalatable to Randi who may turn it down and the loonies in the audiofool world will whoop he would not let them take the test.  Well, that is what I suspect.  Let's see.  We all know that in a double blind you should only be testing for one thing.  In this case the speaker cables.  Looks like the audiofools copped out.   

does the term insufferable mean anything to you?

If you and Randi are so confident that we are all fools what does it matter if someone wishes to add a seperate test for interconnects? Since you two are smarter than the rest of us I'd think you'd welcome another opportunity to "prove it."

[boojum]

The question and basis for this thread is: can a person distinguish a set of monster cables from the pear cables.  What I have for a system is irrelevant and a distraction.  This is not a "my system is better than yours" pissing contest.  That would be a whole other thread.  I have a feeling if I were agreeing with you "insufferable" would not apply.