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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: (Evan) on December 18, 2010, 04:39:50 PM
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So I'm going to be making a recording soon from the front row in a theatre. Recording is allowed, but I won't be able to set up stands or anything due to the nature of the show. The widest spread between the mics I'll be able to get will be about 30cm. What technique should I use in this situation? I've read that ORTF isn't suitable at such close distances, so would it be better to increase or decrease the angle of the (cardioid) capsules? Or would I be better off using baffled omni's instead? There won't be any significant audience noise except for applause. Thanks
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The problem with the front row is that you aren't really covered by speakers in many venues. The main FOH speakers tend to hang over the front row so you cannot really tape off them. What is the set up speaker wise in this theatre? I'd try omnis if there are no direct speakers in front of you.
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There are many smaller speakers spread out along the lip of the stage, and the main speakers are on either side of the stage, about 10 feet back. There are also large speakers directly above the stage on the proscenium angled down towards the audience.
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I would try omnis. I think cards would just sound too "narrow" that close.
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Baffle or no baffle? If no baffle, should I angle them at all?
Thanks
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Ok, so are you just going to be holding the mics on your lap? You mention no stands, so I assume either that or wearing them. In order to use that baffle you'll have to hold them which sounds annoying. In that case, I would just wear them. If you set them up with your head as a baffle, you should be good to go. And since they're omnis, no need to angle them really at all.
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They're actually gonna be mounted on my glasses with several rubber bands. Oktava MK-012's with the swivel mounts for the capsules. If I didn't need to baffle, I'd move them to where the caps protrude beyond by glasses...if baffled I'd move them back to where my head is between the caps and angle them outward slightly using the swivels.
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That's an interesting approach with mics that big! I would use your head as the baffle, better to get a true binaural recording in this case. I just fear those glasses are gonna be heavy!
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They're actually not uncomfortable at all, surprisingly! Been doing a lot of testing with them.
Thanks for the help!
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Hey, whatever works, right?
No problem! 8)
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Set them at anywhere from 90 to 110 degrees. Ortf or nos sound allsum up close.
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So lets say I would do ORTF. Would placing an AT853 omni in the center between the mics, and then mixing that track into the stereo track yield any benefits?
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With front row seats you can easily trade for seats 5-15 rows back in the dead center, wherever the sound is the best for that venue.
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Moving seats isn't an option for me.
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Microphones pick up the sound where you place them: if it doesn't sound good where you place them then your recording wont sound good and there isn't any technique that will fix that. In other words, audio recording is all about microphone placement. Whether the front row is a good place to record from depends on the band and the venue. Your question indicates that the front row is not good as you seem to be trying to pick up the PA on either side of the stage. This line of discussion is analogous to going into a photography forum and asking what lens to use to get a good frontal shot of the singer from the wings of the stage. A wider pickup angle won't help you because the sound you're after simply isn't reaching your position.
If the front row is a poor place to record from, you can't switch seats, and you can't leave your rig setup at the mix position then about the only way to improve your situation is loan your rig to someone with better seats. I have a feeling you're not going to go with that either so you should suck it up and accept that your recording is likely to have bad sounding vocals and other instruments which depend on reinforcement and perhaps sound roomy/boomy. Maybe it will sound pretty good!
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Microphones record where you place them? Who woulda thought?
I was simply asking what was the best way to approach a bad situation. No need to tell me to "suck it up" :-\
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I've read that ORTF isn't suitable at such close distances,
I'm not sure as to why people say this but, that's when I usually do run ORTF is up close, stage-lip, or on-stage.
All have fantastic results.
Also, if you have omni's too run those right along with the cards.
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Also, if you have omni's too run those right along with the cards.
I might try this. So you're saying to have the omni's pointed and spaced the same as the cards? Thanks
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I would use your head as the baffle point for the omnis or clip them to your collar, or shoulders. Or grab a baseball cap and do the same.
Cards on your glasses and omnis on your hat.
It's nice to be able to run both rigs because of the different polar pattern and especially for redundancy.
If you feel the cards are missing something at the end, maybe the omnis captured what was missing.
What is the rest of the rig?
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The setup will be:
Oktava MK-012 cards (I have omni's for these as well if I decide to just to one set of omni) - Denecke PS2 - Sony PCM-D50 Mic input
Then if I add omni's to it it will be AT853 Omni's - Sound Pro's power/preamp box - Microtrack II Line Input.
Just to be clear, are you suggesting I make two recordings so that I can pick the best one or so that I can mix recordings together if needed?
Thanks
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Just to be clear, are you suggesting I make two recordings so that I can pick the best one or so that I can mix recordings together if needed?
Thanks
Yes sir.
You can either pick the better one or mix them, if one is good but lacking.
I enjoy running two rigs when I borrow a second one. I dig being able to be certain that if something goes wrong with one
the other is still rolling. I also like the fact that I get to hear the differences between them.
In your case there should be an audible difference from the omnis and cards.
I know quite a few people who will run say, omnis and cards, or hypers and subcards to mix in post.
Having one rig compliment the other.
PLUS RECORDING IS FUN!!
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burris, I just want to thank you for:
> Microphones pick up the sound where you place them: if it doesn't sound good where you place them then your recording wont sound good and there isn't any technique that will fix that.
I'm sure you didn't mean to offend anyone who didn't need offending, and there is just so much good, common sense in this statement that I thought it deserved repeating.
--best regards
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Following Eberhard Sengpiel's diagram, I would use cardioids in XY at 120 or 135 degrees or omnis 30-40 cm apart.
http://www.twin-x.com/groupdiy/albums/userpics/mic_setuo.JPG
Roger