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Author Topic: Wavelab 5.0 - mixing 2 24/96 aud sources ?  (Read 11725 times)

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Offline wboswell

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Wavelab 5.0 - mixing 2 24/96 aud sources ?
« on: September 05, 2005, 07:05:37 PM »
I've tried this a couple of ways and haven't had any luck.  Well, I've had luck but each time I go to render the montage mix, Wavelab tells me that the files are over the two gig limit, even when I'm working with individual tracks...  please tell me that I'm not going to have to render each individual track...

<edit for some better explanation>
these are 24/96 files - four separate tracks, each auto split with the 744t with auto split set to 1gb.  I've got two stereo pairs in the montage and loaded the whole set, 1:30 minutes worth and gotten the error. 

I've also merged the files in a stereo wave file, tracked both sources in cdwave and used a cue sheet to sync the individual tracks, then loaded those files in a montage, only to be again told that the 2gb file size issue.  I guess my last resort is to render the two sources, track by track, but damn there's got to be a better way...  Sounds like this could be a prone to flaws.

Any ideas?

thanks
« Last Edit: September 05, 2005, 10:08:32 PM by wboswell »

Offline fsulloway

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Re: Wavelab 5.0 - mixing 2 24/96 aud sources ?
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2005, 11:21:43 PM »
William- pm Dave Friedman "Tractor" , he just did this with the Porstmouth show.
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Offline wboswell

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Re: Wavelab 5.0 - mixing 2 24/96 aud sources ?
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2005, 10:44:18 AM »
I'm pretty sure he used Audition to do the mix down, so I'm hoping there is someone with some Wavelab experience that can get this done... 

There's got to be a way for Wavelab to autosplit the rendered file...  I just can't find the setting!

Ray76

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Re: Wavelab 5.0 - mixing 2 24/96 aud sources ?
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2005, 12:24:31 PM »
I'm pretty sure he used Audition to do the mix down, so I'm hoping there is someone with some Wavelab experience that can get this done... 

There's got to be a way for Wavelab to autosplit the rendered file...  I just can't find the setting!

Bos, tractor is sending me the workflow that he used to my email and Ill post it here when I get it.He just did basically the same thing that you are doin i think.... Hes workin on the specifics for me now, as Ive got a 744t and have similar questions.

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Offline wboswell

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Re: Wavelab 5.0 - mixing 2 24/96 aud sources ?
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2005, 01:38:44 PM »
he emailed me what he did and I think I did everything BUT what he did.  I will work on it this evening and move on.  I was just hoping that it would allow me to save the same markers as those created at track marks...


Offline John P

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Re: Wavelab 5.0 - mixing 2 24/96 aud sources ?
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2005, 04:57:32 PM »
he emailed me what he did and I think I did everything BUT what he did. I will work on it this evening and move on. I was just hoping that it would allow me to save the same markers as those created at track marks...


You can save the markers. 
Save the source file under a new name.  When you do a save as, WaveLab will write a new peak file.

Through windows explorer, locate the .MRK file for the original montage (or wav file) that you tracked out. 

Copy the marker file or rename it to the new filename and you are good to go.  (If you rename it, you will lose the markers for the original file).

WaveLab writes the peak files and marker files separately like so.

yourband2005-09-06d1t01.mon
yourband2005-09-06d1t01.wav
yourband2005-09-06d1t01.gpk
yourband2005-09-06d1t01.MRK

Hope this helps.

Offline wboswell

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Re: Wavelab 5.0 - mixing 2 24/96 aud sources ?
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2005, 05:31:53 PM »
Sounds good, but this doesn't address the 2gb file limitation that I get when I line up all the files to be rendered at once.  I suppose the other option would be to use the same cue sheet saved in CD Wave.

<edit>

Problem solved...  I had the preference set to 32 bit float instead of 24 bit.  When I set it to 24 bit, the files fell within the 2bg limit.  I'm good to go now...

« Last Edit: September 06, 2005, 06:54:48 PM by wboswell »

Offline wboswell

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Re: Wavelab 5.0 - mixing 2 24/96 aud sources ?
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2005, 09:57:05 PM »
problems continue...

I've got the two sources rendered, but there is a sever lack of low end on the rendered file.  Each of the separate aud sources have beautiful low end, but when I render the two sources, the resulting mix is severly lacking...

Any thoughts? 

Offline NewHomebrew

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Re: Wavelab 5.0 - mixing 2 24/96 aud sources ?
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2005, 06:00:03 AM »
You might also try sony vegas for this.  It will render long wav files at a variety of sample rates and bit depths.  Also very much my favorite for fancy editing and source blending.  You can flip the phase of a track in and out with a touch of a button to check which sounds better as well, perhaps that would help your bass problem?

Offline dmonterisi

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Re: Wavelab 5.0 - mixing 2 24/96 aud sources ?
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2005, 10:54:52 AM »
ok, i just messed with tracks from boswell's recordings and it's some kind of phase issue between the two sources, not between two different channels of the same source.  he sent me clips of the recording from the mk21 source and the mk41 source.  i opened them up in the montage and listened, and the low end of the recordings pretty much disappears.  so i zoomed into a peak and could see that the two waves are exactly out of phase to each other (screenshot 1).  I opened up the mk21 source in the wavelab wav editor and inverted the phase for the entire track and checked out the montage at the same point (screenshot 2) and the waves are no longer out of phase and the bass is clearly present.  it's like night and day.

Now the question is what would cause this?  the fact that it is two different sources directly out of phase to each other suggests that it is not a cable issue, but rather a processing or mic issue.  would the fact that one is a sub card and the other is a hyper or super card with a rear lobe create the phase difference?  is it an a/d issue?  perhaps a 744 firmware issue.  boswell will have to give you the exact source info, one of these is mic-in to the 744 and the other is digi-in out of the v3. 

any thoughts?

i guess friedman ran into a similar lack of bass in a 4 mic mix he did from portsmouth?

Offline wboswell

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Re: Wavelab 5.0 - mixing 2 24/96 aud sources ?
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2005, 11:05:09 AM »
Source info for files noted above:

mk41>kc5>cmc6xt>generic IC>744T
mk21>kc5>cmc6xt>generic IC>V3>zoalla s/pdif>744T

Firmware on unit: 1.42

I vaguely remember reading something about the 744T recording two sources out of phase, but I couldn't find it in any of the documentation on their website for fimware fixes, etc.  However, this is what seems to be the issue at hand, at least to me...


Offline heath

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Re: Wavelab 5.0 - mixing 2 24/96 aud sources ?
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2005, 11:51:19 AM »
i'm guessing that the problem lies in the 744 firmware.  but that is a coin-flip type guess.  So many variables.  My first instinct would be to test the 744 at home with a stereo.

Run 4 mics into it and see how how the waveforms relate to each other.

next, try mimicing the show data, by using the v3 and again compare waveforms

i find it hard to say it's a mic issue since the waveforms are directly opposite each other.  that leads me to believe it is either software error or wiring.

h

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Offline wboswell

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Re: Wavelab 5.0 - mixing 2 24/96 aud sources ?
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2005, 11:54:41 AM »
The 744T is being shipped back to the owner, J. Pollock, so maybe he can test.

Offline dmonterisi

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Re: Wavelab 5.0 - mixing 2 24/96 aud sources ?
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2005, 12:10:43 PM »

i find it hard to say it's a mic issue since the waveforms are directly opposite each other.  that leads me to believe it is either software error or wiring.

h



thanks heath...could it have something to do with the polar pattern of the mics?  not that the mics were malfunctioning, but that hypers are somehow natively out of phase to subcards?  (if that makes sense?).  i guess it's possible that cabling had something to do with it, but the fact that it's both channels means both cables on one side of the rig are f'd up.  also, if friendman had a similar issue in his portsmouth 4 mic mix and he was v2>2k out of phase (presumably) with the 744, that suggests it's the 744.  hopefully dave can chime in with his results.

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Re: Wavelab 5.0 - mixing 2 24/96 aud sources ?
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2005, 12:55:57 PM »
if it were an inter-relationship between the mics, I don't think we'd be seeing exact opposites.  I would expect minor phasing issues, but not a completely opposite waveform....
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