Topic: Korg MR-2 - just announced at Musikmesse

[sunjan]

So the cat is out of the bag:
http://www.korg.com/Product.aspx?pd=575

Product Highlights:
    * Multi-format recording and playback, including SACD ultra-high quality 1-bit DSD@2.8224 MHz; multi-bit PCM formats up to 24-bit@192 kHz.
      (DSDIFF/WSD/DSF/WAV[BWF]/MP3/MP2 recording and playback, and AIFF playback are supported.)
    * High-performance X-Y configuration stereo electret condenser mic; capable of rotating 210 degrees.
    * Screw mounts provided on two surfaces allow mounting to a commercially available camera tripod for flexible placement.
    * High-performance analog limiter, low-cut filter, and bass EQ are provided.
    * 40 Recording Setups call up specific mic sensitivity, limiter, low-cut filter, and bass EQ settings to suit a variety of situations. Ten custom user settings can be memorized.
    * Records directly to (and plays back from) SD or SDHD cards.
    * USB 2.0 (Mini-B type USB connector) allows high-speed data transfer to and from a computer.
    * Convenient, high-performance KORG chromatic tuner is built in.
    * 128 x 128 pixel LCD with noiseless backlight provides excellent visibility.
    * Two-way power; operates either on two AA nickel-metal hydride batteries, or on USB bus power.
Dimensions:      (W x D x H): 2.52" x 4.72" x 0.9"
Weight:      4.94 oz. (not including a memory card and batteries)
Shipping in July 2010.


Just read this:
http://www.gear4music.com/news/article/Musikmesse-2010-Korg-will-release-groundbreaking-products-in-Frankfurt/19Q/2010-03-16

Korg, one of the world's leading manufacturers of music technology, has revealed that they will be releasing some pioneering products at Musikmesse next week.
In a statement Korg announced that there will be some "major new innovations at this years show."

Time for an overhaul of the MR-1/MR-1000 range?! Watch this space...
[/s]

[flintstone]

Cool!  I guess we'll see the new products at the NAB Show, April 10-15 in Las Vegas.

[capnhook]

rca SPDIF digi i/o mebbe?   

[drewloo]

They are supposed to have a booth/exhibit on 'Gear Alley' at SXSW starting tomorrow.  Wonder if they'll have any of the new goodies there?  Probably not but I might stop by and check it out if I'm close by.

[Colin Liston]

Just marking this thread.  Carry on...

[moooose]

     maybe we'll see something new, maybe not   

The recorder market is maybe the less significant one for Korg.... If they speak about groundbreaking products, I would rather expect keyboards, music instruments, controllers or something similar.

Anyway, wait and see.

[H₂O]

I doubt we will see any new portable recorders - seeing that Korg was giving away the MR-1 with keyboard puchases last year - but who knows.

[H₂O]

The SOS was anounced sometime ago (Fall 2009?) and is meant more for a session recorder (mix on the fly or at least playback tracks in a "mixed" manner).

[Ozpeter]

We discussed that Korg recorder some time back at http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=131148.msg1724481#msg1724481

[sunjan]

Bump for update!

[timP]

wow. that things seems tiny!


not that is a bad thing

[H₂O]

I was plesently wrong 
 
It pulls 1.5W so at around 2.4 V (2 AA Rechargables 2500mA) your looking at about 4hours of record time

[aaronji]

Interesting.  From the description/photos, I get the impression that the built-in mics are a single point that can be rotated, but that the angle between them can't be changed (like the D50).

Can't find anything about pricing, though.  Wonder what it will go for...

[bgalizio]

One of this issues I had with the MR-1 was that it couldn't take a very hot signal. Can someone help me understand if the MR-2 will take a hot signal OK?

Specs: MR-1
Nominal Input (Line): -6dBV
Max Input (line): +6 dBV
Input impedence: 10k ohms

MR-2
Nominal level (Line): -10dBV
Max level (line): +2dBV
Input impedence: 75k ohms

[udovdh]

MR-2
Nominal level (Line): -10dBV
Max level (line): +2dBV
Input impedence: 75k ohms

MR-2 can take less than MR-1.

[spyder9]

Finally an SD handheld from Korg.  It will be interesting to see if Korg can close ground on its competitors.  1 bit DSD a side, they've been playing catch-up in the handheld market.  This SD model might be the ticket for them.   

[su6oxone]

Interesting design.  If you put it in a some sort of case that covers the mic grille on top, it will totally pass for a media player. 

[JD]

The battery life is kind of weak, but looks to be enough for most shows, including an opening act. On the other hand, the USB bus power will alow for alot of external powering options.

Two-way power supply
Two AA nickel-metal hydride batteries (1900 mAh) allow approximately four hours of continuous recording or playback. USB bus power is also supported. (Note: Nickel-metal hydride batteries cannot be recharged using bus power.)

[notlance]

It does not appear to have any digital in.  Too bad.

[capnhook]

MR-2
Nominal level (Line): -10dBV
Max level (line): +2dBV
Input impedence: 75k ohms

MR-2 can take less than MR-1.

And no RCA SPDIF digi in either........another "toy" 

[M]

Digi in is useless for this device....I don't understand why anyone would think a dsd machine would have it.

[capnhook]

Digi in is useless for this device....I don't understand why anyone would think a dsd machine would have it.

Crappy analog in + no digi in = crappy "toy"


What are you going to use this newest disposable recorder for?......crappy point-and-shoot internal mic recordings?  No thanks......next.

 

[H₂O]

I wonder if this is an MR-1 replacement or a lower cost model.
 
The MR-1 is labelled on the Korg site as "Professional Mobile Recorder"
 
Where as the MR-2 is labelled as "High-Resolution Mobile Recorder"
 
MR-2 lacks balanced inputs and does not handle as high of signal levels.
 
I would think this is more in alignment with the R-09hr, Sony D10, Roland R-05, etc  So I would expect it priced in the same range ~$300 versus the MR-1 which was at the ~$800 when orignally released.

[Nick's Picks]

Digi in is useless for this device....I don't understand why anyone would think a dsd machine would have it.

Crappy analog in + no digi in = crappy "toy"


What are you going to use this newest disposable recorder for?......crappy point-and-shoot internal mic recordings?  No thanks......next.

 

Hook...., some wonderful advice that will improve your online persona.
shut up.
better to appear stupid by keeping your mouth closed than to prove it by flappin your gums.




As I see it, this is a very cool deck.  I can't wait to get my hands on one of these suckers.

-digital I/O is a PCM thing.  It would behoove a PCM recorder to have one..., but this is a DSD recorder..primarily.
that is the "catch" with this deck.  DSD.  PCM recording is an afterthought with these Korg recorders, which is why there is no digital i/o outside of USB for data transfer.

- no balanced inputs ?  big deal.  they were a PITA and completely unnecessary.  will not affect quality by not having them.

- built in microphones are here to stay.  after-all the majority of the market is just like their picture on korg.com.  a guy playing music w/this thing setup and recording in front of him. 

- no moving parts !!  much better.
- hopefully an improved opamp from the Kraco chip they had in the MR1.

all in all, the MR1 still remains my favorite sounding deck.  The MR2 can only be a step in the right direction, all these years later since the MR1, I"m sure they have learned a thing or two.
 

[capnhook]

I love you too, Mr.Picks......nice cables.

[SClassical]

I think if people want a digital in they should just get an MT(II). And not spend extra on this. This thing only needs a good line-in. I think having the mics inside the recorder is the downside cuz it ends up with a smaller screen to make room for the internal mics. I personally prefer a larger screen vs internal mics. The previous model screen seems better. And who wants to put the recorder 8 foot up on a mic stand.

[deadheaded]

- no balanced inputs ?  big deal.  they were a PITA and completely unnecessary.  will not affect quality by not having them.

you will lose about 15db of signal to noise ratio going unbalanced in vs. balanced in.

that seems kind of important to me.

[taperj]

The MR-1 runs just fine on balanced and unbalanced. Whoever is claiming it doesn't wasn't bold enough to plug it in.  If you plug balanced into the left channel and unbalanced into the right, you see a 6dB difference which is proper. So what was the pain with the balanced inputs?

[manamana]

I'd actually love a small, cheap, quality recorder with balanced inputs.

haven't done any concrete studies, but I get the impression that cell phone interference is less of an issue when I'm recording over a totally balanced path. It's usually not a huge deal no matter what, but it'd be nice to reduce further.

Cabling would be easier too. I'd be looking closer at this if it maintained a balanced option, but without it, I'm looking at the tiny sony or the new tascam.

[H₂O]

Of my 3 Pre Amp's Only my PSP-2 has unbalanced out - so Balanced out is critical for me - especially since I am not running any 48V mics right now (just 2 sets of tube mics).
 
I am not saying the MR-2 is a toy as others seem to think, I just think it's marketed as more of a consumer focused deck - But this probably means they going to price it a more agressive price point
 
so MR-2 vs. M10 vs. 09HR vs 05 and I bet you the MR-2 smokes the others sound wise

[guysonic]

so MR-2 vs. M10 vs. 09HR vs 05 and I bet you the MR-2 smokes the others sound wise

With preliminary publishied specs like shown below, not likely this new deck will smoke much more than Zoom and a few other very poorly designed shirt-pocket models.  But until shipped and bench tested for performance, hard to tell anything for sure.  In other words 90 dB S/N A-weighted spec is most disappointing if low noise is to be expected important.

[Nick's Picks]

I love you too, Mr.Picks......nice cables.

that's all you got eh?
I shouldn't expect much from you when it comes to wit.

[Nick's Picks]

- no balanced inputs ?  big deal.  they were a PITA and completely unnecessary.  will not affect quality by not having them.

you will lose about 15db of signal to noise ratio going unbalanced in vs. balanced in.

that seems kind of important to me.

really ?


I said what I said due to what I've seen in the playback world of high end gear when it comes to balanced vs. unbalanced.
and since every other non-phantom supplying hand held doesn't have balanced inputs, again, I dont see the loss.
the argument of bal vs unbal is alive and well.  there are points to both side, as I understand it..but again, that was all concerning playback gear.  Amplifiers and stuff.

I understand that most preamps are balanced.  but Im' talking about hand held decks, not microphone preamps (which 9 out of 10 will be balanced output only).

[capnhook]

I love you too, Mr.Picks......nice cables.

that's all you got eh?
I shouldn't expect much from you when it comes to wit.

I cannot understand your tone of familiarity.  I do not know you, nor have never met you, Mr.Picks.  Let us keep it that way.

I have never had a troll, nor do I want one.

Thank you in advance, kind sir.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

I would also prefer balanced inputs.   I don't see how they are a negative in any way...   Of course the hotter signal of a balanced input needs pro signal handling capability, and that is lacking on the handhelds.   The Marantz 661 seems unique in that respect.

Without exception, I have found any restaurant that claims "best burgers"..  They don't have the best burgers.  "Best sandwiches" - NO.  "Best Chinese" - run now, or run later!  And so... "Futureproof" - Hmm... probably the opposite.

From another thread, Korg apparently has not updated their audiogate software to work on windows7?  Though I don't run win7, I see that as a problem and concern.  So much for "futureproof" if you can't run the software to convert the dsd.   And the requirement that you plug your recorder into the PC in order to run the software is totally bunk.  Even if I have the software still running in 5 or 10 years, having the recorder is an obstacle.  Sure, you can convert to pcm today but that defeats the purpose and is hardly "futureproof".

[Nick's Picks]

I love you too, Mr.Picks......nice cables.

that's all you got eh?
I shouldn't expect much from you when it comes to wit.

I cannot understand your tone of familiarity.  I do not know you, nor have never met you, Mr.Picks.  Let us keep it that way.

I have never had a troll, nor do I want one.

Thank you in advance, kind sir.

Surely you haven't forgotten all  those wonderfully colerful PMs you sent me a month ago.
I havent'.  For someone who doesn't know me, you had a pretty easy time being a douchebag to me.
figured i'd give you the respect of being an ass-hat ..back to you.

I'm finished now though.
Nice try at coming across as a mature and reasonable adult.  Keep it up.  It becomes you much more than the sophomoric, insulting 20-something year old mentality, poor humour that you were slinging around previously.

Sorry for the venom injection to the rest of the innocent bystanders.
I"m out of this thread from here on out until something useful comes up in discussion on this deck (like when one is in hand).  All this speculation is garbage until then.
I've got a hornet in my undies w/this Cap-n-hook character.

Back on topic
the whole "future proof" is just marketing bla bla, imo.
I believe the thought being that DSD is the highest resolution you can use on any recorder out there today.  so you can "dumb it down" to anything that might become the "future standard PCM resolution for mass markets"...,

thats how I read into it any way.  Sort of like they are making it sound like its the digital equiv. of mastering on Reel2Reel or other types of tape..., and the flexibility that leaves when brought into the digital domain.

The balanced input of the MR1 was cool and all, but I hardly got any benefit from it in concert taping w/our standard compliment of premaps, mics..etc running in front of it.  It just required custom cables...(which was the PITA part to me).

[capnhook]

Sorry to have hit a nerve, Mr.Picks.  My salty email responses to you were in response to your shoddy business practices.  Do not take it personally.  I was not the person you had forgotten to send cables to, and I had to return four pm's to convince you of that.  I am not your personal secretary, sir.  Please do not bother me with your problems.

Worry about your own on-screen persona, sir.  I am confident in mine.

My apologies to everyone else here.

Kevin

[Shadow_7]

So of these small things, which is cheapest, smallest and/or lightest while still allowing 24 bit or better recording?  And of the pocket sized models, how do they hold up to moisture?  For those of us who live in warmer climates and tend to have genetics that favor colder climates.  I've rediscovered a few of my small and cheap mics, but realize that I don't exactly have a field recorder type device to use them with.  Or should I just get a Kodak Zi8 and call it a day?

[sunjan]

So of these small things, which is cheapest, smallest and/or lightest while still allowing 24 bit or better recording?

Sorry for threadjacking.
Considering 24bit units available in the US:
Cheapest (but probably junk): Medeli  DR2 (aka Alesis Palmtrack) ($99 on google shopping)
Cheapest with reasonable quality: Zoom H2/Tascam DR-07 ($130-$140)
Smallest/lightest: Yamaha C24 ($199)

Re. your question of being weatherproof - I don't think any of the recorders on the market is. You'd better buy one of those diving enclosures...

[H₂O]

Re. your question of being weatherproof - I don't think any of the recorders on the market is. You'd better buy one of those diving enclosures...

The Aaton Canton is:
http://www.aaton.com/products/sound/cantar/index.php
 
But it'll set you back about $15K-20K

[it-goes-to-eleven]

Moisture on the electronics is going to be a comparative non-issue compared to what it will do to your mics.  It's easy to put a recorder in a bag or a jar.

[Shadow_7]

The mics have clips, so they'll likely go on the bill of a ballcap, or bell of a horn, or frame of the glasses.  But the recorder will likely be under the cap, or in a pocket on a person running around a football field sweating a lot.  Ziplock bag is an option, but a hassle, that shouldn't be an issure for these "pocket" devices IMO.  I guess I could go uber geeky and use a pocket protector.  I was just looking for something in that $100-$200 range with 24 bit capabilities.  The MR2 might fit the bill.  But I guess it depends on the pocket.  And the street price.  I'm not really looking for DSD abilities, the mics aren't that good.  But it'd be nice to have a respectible backup and an option for alternative location recording.

[MattH]

I would also prefer balanced inputs.   I don't see how they are a negative in any way...   Of course the hotter signal of a balanced input needs pro signal handling capability, and that is lacking on the handhelds.   The Marantz 661 seems unique in that respect.

Without exception, I have found any restaurant that claims "best burgers"..  They don't have the best burgers.  "Best sandwiches" - NO.  "Best Chinese" - run now, or run later!  And so... "Futureproof" - Hmm... probably the opposite.

From another thread, Korg apparently has not updated their audiogate software to work on windows7?  Though I don't run win7, I see that as a problem and concern.  So much for "futureproof" if you can't run the software to convert the dsd.   And the requirement that you plug your recorder into the PC in order to run the software is totally bunk.  Even if I have the software still running in 5 or 10 years, having the recorder is an obstacle.  Sure, you can convert to pcm today but that defeats the purpose and is hardly "futureproof".

FWIW, I never have my Korg recorder connected to the computer when I run audiogate. That was only necessary the first time to initialize the software. Also,  seems it would be difficult to have audiogate work with future operating systems without there being some reasonable lag between the time new operating systems debut and when future audiogate updates become available.

As far as xlr to mini trs cables go, I have purchased mogami cables in this configuration stock from guitar center.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

FWIW, I never have my Korg recorder connected to the computer when I run audiogate. That was only necessary the first time to initialize the software. Also,  seems it would be difficult to have audiogate work with future operating systems without there being some reasonable lag between the time new operating systems debut and when future audiogate updates become available.

The problem still stands that it will be necessary to have a working recorder to run the software anytime the software thinks it isn't properly initialized.   One great way of running old apps and operating systems is via virtualization, but the recorder requirement makes that more difficult (both from needing the recorder, and due to driver complexity).   Adding the USB i/o copy protection to Audiogate makes it much less likely to "just work" on future OS versions.  Maybe that's what they mean by "futureproof"

There really is no excuse for the lag in supporting win7.  As a developer, Korg could have had pre-release access.  History has demonstrated that when a vendor fails to support a current OS in their current product, it does not bode well for future support.

[RTD]

for me it has a lot of interesting features compared to the MR1: no noisy harddrive, USB power, build in mics, sd cards, exchangeble batteries.
Looks really great for me though. If the quality will be ok, I´ll go for it. What will be the price in the US?

[sunjan]

for me it has a lot of interesting features compared to the MR1: no noisy harddrive, USB power, build in mics, sd cards, exchangeble batteries.
Looks really great for me though. If the quality will be ok, I´ll go for it. What will be the price in the US?

Not up in the US yet. A few Euro sites have it listed for  EUR627/GBP548:
http://www.production-room.com/korg/korg-mr2/

IMHO, the price tag is way expensive for the features we are using. Street price will have to go down a lot before it can compete with other pocket units. Mind you, most of the pros you mention are already implemented in R09-HR, M10 etc...

[RTD]

yea, find it also kinda expensive. I would do it for around 500$.

[flintstone]

Well, the same site lists the MR-1 at  GBP305 GBP, which is equivalent to USD469.  We can purchase the MR-1 in USA for USD350, sometimes less.  That's about 25% cheaper than the store in England.  Reducing the MR-2's quoted price of 548 GBP by 25%,  the price of the MR-2 in USA becomes USD632. 

Looking at the problem another way, Korg products like the MR-1000 are discounted by about 33% in USA.  If Korg sets the MSRP of the MR-2 at $899,
then the USA street price will settle in at $600 a few weeks after the product is released.

Flintstone

[H₂O]

I just don't see them selling too many of these if the street price is much above $300 with the M10, R-09hr, etc avail.
 
Good luck to them if the do try and sell it for higher - but I just don't see it taking off.
 
Especially when you can get a used MR-1 for $175-225 range (sometimes even below $150) and a new one for around $250-300 (sometimes below $200).
 
 

[M]

^true that!

I want one, but I'm not gonna spend stupid amounts of money for it.

[Nick's Picks]

ouch.
well, the MR1 was near that price when first announced.  I recall fondly..as I shelled out for one.
the 2nd one I bought brand spankin' new for $200.
eBay.  Smokin'Joe now runs it.  Trusty deck.

[jtblackmore]

I like my MR-1000, but I would like to see a 4-track version...That's the only thing I'm jealous of my friends R-44 is those extra tracks it can record. Imagine running 2 mic's and 2 channels off the soundboard or 4 channels with various mic configurations to capture the complete room sound. ahh...Dreaming...

[jaz]

Fact: DSD is better and more responsive then 24 bit. So again with the no digital in.... big deal, in fact a digital in would decrease the available quality this unit has to offer. I like the SD memory. I would say by the specs that the SD card is the only improvement on the previous model.  I LOVE my MR-1, of course it runs off an external battery. Only issue with the MR-1 in my book is the noisy pre's (I dont use them though)     

[it-goes-to-eleven]

Fact: DSD is better and more responsive then 24 bit.

What do you use for playback?

[jaz]

1/8 -> Splitter -> Dynaco Mark III Mono blocks -> Vintage Cerwin Vaga D-3's. Or resample in AudioGate and playback through lynx L22.    At any rate I'll stick with may MR-1 and not go for the soon to come "upgrade"