Topic: COMPARISON sd722 vs oade acm marantz671

[sygdwm]

q: where was the vocalist on a & b? as stated above the image between a & b is different. on a, i'm getting guitar and vocal left channel almost entirely. on b is center/right channel. this diff should not come from a diff in recorders...  i'm just listening from songbird > mdr 7506.

left. as i said before, there was no post processing so what was played, was what was recorded. either eq, balance, edit, or listen on speakers. 

also, by no means were the 461's matched.

[db]

q: where was the vocalist on a & b? as stated above the image between a & b is different. on a, i'm getting guitar and vocal left channel almost entirely. on b is center/right channel. this diff should not come from a diff in recorders...  i'm just listening from songbird > mdr 7506.

left. as i said before, there was no post processing so what was played, was what was recorded. either eq, balance, edit, or listen on speakers. 

also, by no means were the 461's matched.

wow. then a is the only one that represented the soundstage accurately. the mics not being matched should not account for this.. also, this difference is not present on c/d.

[sygdwm]

soundstage, shmoundstage. which one do you prefer? a or b, c or d.

[db]

soundstage, shmoundstage. which one do you prefer? a or b, c or d.

whhhaaaaaaa haahahaha!! sorry i'm an imagecentric taper.  but i said it in a prior post. so far (headphones only) i like b and d. but those placed the vocal on the other side...um, huh? but they sound better, but the image is off, sound.... image, sound.... image....does not compute. scanning...

so forgetting, somehow, that i know that the representation is off,   just operating on the sonic quality... get ready... dunno. will burn a disc.

[thegreatgumbino]

Good comp.  Thanks.  +T 

I ran the Stock/JW mod 460's > M148 for a while & feel like I have a pretty good handle on how they sound.  That being said, I liked 'A' & 'C'. 

edit: to remove spoilers.

To elaborate:

'A' vs. 'B'
I didn't care for the sound of 'B' at all.  It was my least favorite out of all four tracks.  The vocals & highs are way too in your face (hyped) and seemed harsh compared to 'A'.  Overall, the track seemed unnatural.  I enjoyed the laid back sound of 'A' much more as it sounded more natural to my ears with a nice low end thump. 

'C' vs. 'D'
As for 'C' vs. 'D', I liked them both, but I preferred the sound of 'C'.  That being said, the combo of 'D' sounds great to my ears as well, but I find 'C' more natural with a defined low end thump.  'D' is a bit grating in the highs and more smeared in the low end, while still exhibiting the "hyped" sense (though not nearly as much so as 'B').  Again, 'C' feels more laid back & natural to my ears.

[sygdwm]

thanks for the elaboration. fwiw, these werent the most ideal taping circumstances. its not far from the realm of possibility that i could get all this gear together again for a panic show this fall. 

[cshepherd]

Dre,
Have you ever done a comp between your stock 671 and the oade ACM 671?

Chris

[sygdwm]

no but i am pretty sure the stock pres suck. hence the mod. i always run a pre in front of the stock one.

[Wiggler]

Doug has some samples with and without the mod on his web site.
http://www.oade.com/digital_recorders/hard_disc_recorders/PMD-671MODS.html


I prefered B over A the difference was minimal.
With C & D I thought the difference was greater and like D much better.
Cary Cd-303 > McIntosh C41 Pre > MC352 amp > Egglestonworks Andra II speakers.

[sygdwm]

with that playback get up, i think this here ends it. +t


/and i concur

[F.O.Bean]

Good comp.  Thanks.  +T 

I ran the Stock/JW mod 460's > M148 for a while & feel like I have a pretty good handle on how they sound.  That being said, I liked 'A' & 'C'. 

edit: to remove spoilers.

To elaborate:

'A' vs. 'B'
I didn't care for the sound of 'B' at all.  It was my least favorite out of all four tracks.  The vocals & highs are way too in your face (hyped) and seemed harsh compared to 'A'.  Overall, the track seemed unnatural.  I enjoyed the laid back sound of 'A' much more as it sounded more natural to my ears with a nice low end thump. 

'C' vs. 'D'
As for 'C' vs. 'D', I liked them both, but I preferred the sound of 'C'.  That being said, the combo of 'D' sounds great to my ears as well, but I find 'C' more natural with a defined low end thump.  'D' is a bit grating in the highs and more smeared in the low end, while still exhibiting the "hyped" sense (though not nearly as much so as 'B').  Again, 'C' feels more laid back & natural to my ears.

this is exactly the way I felt too Matt, but I couldnt word it nearly that well I didnt even know which source was which until I listened to them a few times and finally looked at the  text file. I am honestly not being biased because i own one recorder over another, but the highs were WAY TOO grating in samples b and d, but especially b. I think sample b was def more in-your-face, but thats expected because there is so much more highend, and at the expense of the high-end being fatiguing. in that case, id rather have a more laid back soundstage that isnt as in your face and more rounded over the spectrum. a and c were DEF more natural sounding to me overall and much more pleasing and had the PERFECT low-end thump that I really crave for. samples b and d were too fatiguing in the high end, and it was ALOT more prevelant and almost scratching high-end on b and d. Kind of like fingernails on a chalkboard. sounded more unnatural to me as did the soundstage of the two(b+d). And once again, the sound of sample d had a TAD too much high-end for my liking and not quite enough low-end thump for my tastes. I like a more laid back and natural sound and soundstage and I think a and c captured this quite well

That being said, I would be happy to come home with either samples of c and d, but if I had to consistently come home with samples like b all the time, I would change my setup rather quickly because the high end would get to me VERY quickly. The sound on sample d just wasnt rounded enough and PHAT enough for me. the lowend thump needed to be a bit more present on this one. Once again, sample c was PERFECT in the lowend thump and overall had a nicer and smoother sound throughout the spectrum. Very well rounded IMO. and the highs in sample c were also perfect. not too fatiguing but JUST RIGHT. Like I said, overall, sample c was just more rounded and musical IMO. This is all after listening to the samples back and forth for about 20-30 mins after work today.

My playback is nothing near great, but its:

Foobar 2000 (FLACS) > M-Audio Audiophile 24/96 > Coax > JVC RX-6000V receiver > 5 Bose Cube Speakers with dual 8" woofer sub cabinet

So my playback is def nothing great, but after listening on this setup for many years now, I have a great feel for how a source sounds on it and the characteristics of each source I also listened to these on my Sennheiser HD-280 Pro cans and had the same results as I did with the speakers on playback. My cans setup is:

Foobar 2000 (FLACS) > M-Audiophile 24/96 > Coax > JVC RX-6000V Receiver > Sennheiser HD-280 Pro Headphones

Like I said, I would be pretty damn happy coming home with either of the samples of c and d, but sample c is what I crave for in a recording. Nice and phat and well rounded throughout the spectrum

Now I want to hear a Busman Modded Fostex FR2-LE compared to the 722 comp

sorry for my buzzed up rambling. Im sure my post is going to be hard to comprehend, and Im sorry for that. but I gave these extensive listening tests to see if I got ripped off spending an extra 1k. I felt confident on my decision/purchase prior to these comps because of the many kick-ass recordings I have made over the past 1.5 years, but especially after hearing this comp

Oh and thanks alot for putting this comp together Once I get a Busman Modded FR2-LE, I will DEF put together a 483>722/Busman fr2-le comp and an MBHO Hypers/Cards>722/Busman fr2-le comp. I just dont know how Im gonna do it yet Maybe I'll just run 483>722 for set one and 483>busman fr2le for set 2. tho thats not an ideal comp, still gives you an idea of how the diff all-in-ones sound. I am sure with Steve Toney(tonedeaf) and myself both owning 483's, we could put something together sometime this fall!

Thanks again, I know alot of work went into this

+T

[sygdwm]

fwiw, as soon as the busman fr2le vintage mod is ready. ill have another comp to do.

[F.O.Bean]

fwiw, as soon as the busman fr2le vintage mod is ready. ill have another comp to do.

Awesome, and I consider the 722 pre's as being 'vintage' IMO. They are both transparent and in-your-face as well as being warm and rich and smooth like older tube/tube-like preamps are/were. Thats a great achievement IMO in manufacturing and crafting a preamps sound and im sure is no easy feat. Im sure its much easier to have a preamp be one or the other(transparent or warm) but to have the best of both worlds in a preamp is truly great research/maunfacturing IMO. thats why I LOVE my 722, because it has the best of both worlds. I honestly think the 722 suffers when running a preamp in front of it for most mics, at least with my 480's and my MBHO's anyway. Once you add a pre infront of the 722, it looses its in-your-face sound and just doesnt jump out as much at you.....it still retains the warmth a bit in th ADC section, but the transparency and in-your-face sound is lost IMO. Thats why I sold all of my other preamps and strictly run the 722 as an all-in-one, as it was supposed to be

[Kevin Straker]

its only 105mb, so it should only take a minute to d/l.  discuss.

an hour and 12 minutes at 23k on my pc. 

[sanaka]

I agree with most that A & C are superior. B & D aren't bad, but it was not a real close call either. Especially C versus D, just sounds more real, natural, relaxed, and there, versus kinda processed or squeezed or forced. Makes me want the equipment I want even worse 

FWIW, I normalized all the files in Adobe Audition so I didn't have to guess on comparable levels with the volume knob, and my playback chain was: flac from Audition>M-Audio Delta 410>DIY PiMeta headphone amp>Grado sr60 phones.  Might check again on Fostex active monitors when it won't disturb the household.

Thanks for doing this dre, it's very informative!

Peace,
Sanaka