Topic: Saving Raw Masters

[stevetoney]

I'm reassessing my storage practices of my raw master recordings and looking for feedback.  For the last several years, after uploading my 16 and 24 bit shows to archive or etree, for long term storage I've redundantly saved my 24bit flac files and the raw master file on two separate hard drives (second hard drive is kept at work).  I've got hundreds of master recordings saved this way, but after several years of using this practice, I'm realizing that I'm never returning to my shows to tweek them or re-master them.  I'm thinking about going back and deleting the raw master files and just keeping the flacs since obviously if I did ever want to do any tweeking, I could still do so to the FLAC files.  With so many masters of audio and video stored and something like 5 or 6TB of harddrive space, I'm thinking it would be nice to free up 2 or 3 TB by deleting redundant raw files that I've never really needed and probably won't need.

Has anyone else found a profound need or reason to keep the raw masters, over and above what the flac's provide you? 

Thanks!

[mattmiller]

For the cost of storage these days, I couldn't bring myself to deleting anything.  The 2-3 TB you're considering reclaiming is worth, what, about $150 at today's prices?  What's the peace of mind of having those hundreds of raw files archived worth to you?

[stevetoney]

For the cost of storage these days, I couldn't bring myself to deleting anything.  The 2-3 TB you're considering reclaiming is worth, what, about $150 at today's prices?  What's the peace of mind of having those hundreds of raw files archived worth to you?

I fully agree with your comment, but if I never do anything with the raw files, what are storing them providing me that the flacs aren't also providing? 

For example, can anyone give me some feedback about whether the raw files were more valuable or better to work with than unpacked flacs if you wanted to go back and tweek?

[sparkey]

If nothing else, having the raw files provide another backup in the event of data corruption.

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

The way I look at it is in the event that I lost my edited files I could always go back and re-track my favorite shows. I may never re-track them all, but at least I can go back and listen to my favorite shows.

Hopefully I will never need to do that. I just bought a 2TB hard drive and external case for $102 shipped. Even if they just sit there for eternity it's nice to know they are there.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

I've said it many times before, but I'll say it again....   Damaged flac files are extremely difficult to extract back into wav files.  A wav file is simple pcm.  It is the data with a trivial header that can be easily constructed.  If you have a media failure and are left with 85% of a wav file, you have 85% of the music. But 85% of a flac file is potentially useless.

Flac is more robust than it was in the past.  It will continue to extract through errors that would have previously caused it to abort entirely.  I haven't done any recent tests, ymmv.

Another consideration is file deletion vs. formatting.  It is vastly easier to recover files from media that was formatted before being populated.  That causes files that are copied to be contiguous.  If there have been deletions, your files are more likely fragmented across the media.  So whenever possible, format, rather than delete, before using (especially on field recorders).

[halleyscomet8]

all i save are my 24 bit tracked flacs. the rest seeded and then deleted. raw files get deleted

[page]

I have the raw wav files and the 16 bit tracked out flacs, but I've gone back and tinkered with the raw files on a number of occasions later.

[rastasean]

If you've never re-edited raw wave files after you're finished with it, I don't see the point of keeping it. Perhaps you can setup a schedule to delete only a certain amount at a time just in case you decide to re-edit or if the flacs cause issues.

2-3 TB is a lot of space and you would also want backup of your backups which could be 4-6 TB.

[keytohwy]

I wish there was, and maybe there is, a way to save the changes to an audio file in a non-destructive way.  In the video world, I can save my project file in Final Cut Pro, but the video remains virgin.  I can also save an EDL (edit decision list), which is portable among video editing apps.  If you could do this in an audio editing app, then you could save the raw files, and just archive the relatively small EDL, which could be called upon for future edits.  Make sense?

Maybe this is possible in apps like ProTools, etc., but this board seems focused on Audacity and mostly other low end apps.

keytohwy

[stevetoney]

I've said it many times before, but I'll say it again....   Damaged flac files are extremely difficult to extract back into wav files.  A wav file is simple pcm.  It is the data with a trivial header that can be easily constructed.  If you have a media failure and are left with 85% of a wav file, you have 85% of the music. But 85% of a flac file is potentially useless.

Flac is more robust than it was in the past.  It will continue to extract through errors that would have previously caused it to abort entirely.  I haven't done any recent tests, ymmv.

I thought about this.  What you don't say though is whether you've actually had experience getting lots of damaged FLAC files.  I'm not challenging your claim, but asking for additional information. 

FWIW, I've have had experience with damaged discs the caused my FLAC not to extract.  It was the reason I stopped archiving to CDs and DVDs...because they don't last. 

However, now I'm using harddrives with redundant backups.  Since I have a redundant copy of the FLAC file on my redundant hard drive, I would be able to recover the damaged file on the second drive, so I don't think the damaged FLAC file is a concern since I'm already redundant.  That said, I suppose a damaged FLAC could be damaged at creation and pass the file integrity check, then it would be damaged on both my source and backup drives. 

Thoughts, comments?

[setboy]

I would stop archiving in flac and keep the raw files. I have had flac/shn files (not masters as far as i can remember) not want to open before.

[live2496]

Has anyone else found a profound need or reason to keep the raw masters, over and above what the flac's provide you? 

In your situation if one of the drives is damaged by flood, fire, tornado, etc. you have a better chance of having a library of your audio recordings.

You have to weigh the value of keeping them vs the cost. But consider the fact that cost of storage has steadily decreased and likely will continue to do so.

[bugg100]

I wish there was, and maybe there is, a way to save the changes to an audio file in a non-destructive way.  In the video world, I can save my project file in Final Cut Pro, but the video remains virgin.  I can also save an EDL (edit decision list), which is portable among video editing apps.  If you could do this in an audio editing app, then you could save the raw files, and just archive the relatively small EDL, which could be called upon for future edits.  Make sense?

Maybe this is possible in apps like ProTools, etc., but this board seems focused on Audacity and mostly other low end apps.

keytohwy

Reaper.fm...... all for $60us IF you decide to buy.

[stevetoney]

I wish there was, and maybe there is, a way to save the changes to an audio file in a non-destructive way.  In the video world, I can save my project file in Final Cut Pro, but the video remains virgin.  I can also save an EDL (edit decision list), which is portable among video editing apps.  If you could do this in an audio editing app, then you could save the raw files, and just archive the relatively small EDL, which could be called upon for future edits.  Make sense?

Maybe this is possible in apps like ProTools, etc., but this board seems focused on Audacity and mostly other low end apps.

keytohwy

Yes, this would be nice.  I do save my cue lists when I set my tracks in CDWave, but that only lets you repeat track splits.