Topic: Samplitude 11 Questions (Mixing / EQ)

[kcmule]

I'm just getting a workflow down in the multitrack environment using samplitude 11.02.

I've read a few things via google that mention a "Mixdown" button in the Mixer, I do not
see this button my version.

1. Did this button only exist in previous versions?

2. Is the proper way to spit out a mixdown via File > Export Audio (seems to work fine, FWIW)


I have one troublesome spot in this project, couple seconds of feedback I'd like to eliminate.
I've believe the offending frequencies have been identified and appear to be nearly isolated
to one vocal track (I'm guessing these frequencies will be audible in other channels given the
bleed from other stage mics).

3. Can I isolate the offending segment in the vocal track, EQ, and proccess the change "in place"

3a.  I'm guessing I could edit just the vocal track, and load the edited track into the project.

3b.  Given there is likely the "bleed" to deal with, would it be best to EQ the mixdown instead?
(even though I could likely eliminate the majority of it in the one track prior to mixdown)


Looking forward to wrapping this one up, so I can start the next one.

[Brian Skalinder]

<1>  Unsure about the button in previous versions, as I don't have SAM in front of me.

<2>  File | Export Audio will work for mixdown, but if memory serves -- and if SAM 11 is similar to previous versions -- it doesn't provide as many options, for example with respect to sample rate conversion, as Track | Bounce (Mixdown).  Or, at least, Export Audio provides different options.  Try Track | Bounce (Mixdown) on the main menu (or something close to it such...don't have SAM in front of me, but Bounce is definitely part of the main menu I've used in the past).  I generally Bounce (Mixdown), then if I'm happy and ready to split into tracks, will follow with File | Export Audio (which is quite fast if the process isn't doing all the mixing and processing, but simply splitting into tracks based on markers).

<3>  Yes, you should be able to isolate the offending segment in the vocal track and apply EQ to that segment of the vocal track only.  You'll want to split the offending segment into its own Object, then apply edits to that object only.  Not sure what you mean by apply the change "in place"?

<3a>  If you really wanted to, yes -- you could edit the vocal track independently, and then load the edited track into the project.  But you need not do so.  See <3>.

<3b>  You could try editing after mixdown, but no need to wait until after mixdown to edit the offending segment across all tracks.  I would try to <a> edit the offending segment in the vocal track only (per <3> above).  See if it gets the results you desire.  If you feel you need to edit the same segment in one or more other tracks, then simply split the other tracks as you've done in <3> and apply whatever EQ you need either to all the offending segments (i.e. objects) collectively, or to each one individually, customized based on the track.

[kcmule]

Thanks for the reply.  I've seen mention of 'objects', but wasn't sure what
they were all about (had a vague idea, but...).  I'll give your suggestions a
try and report back (might not be for a day or two).

As for what I meant by "in place", I guess that stems from my use of Wavelab.
Where you can apply an effect/eq/whatever to a selected range of audio and
render those changes to that selection.  It's called "Process In Place" rather
than process the changes to a new file.

Sounds like using objects is similar, except those objects are processed when
the mixdown occurs (a placeholder for actions to be preformed, if you will).

[Brian Skalinder]

In SAM, you can apply edits to individual tracks, multiple tracks (I think...I didn't do much multi-track work), individual objects (i.e. segments), or multiple objects.  Very flexible.  Objects are simply segments of a track to which one may apply edits independently of the rest of the tracks / objects.  Each track by default starts off as a single object.  To split an object, set the cursor where you want (or highlight the section you want) and press (IIRC) ctrl-T.  SAM will split the track at the cursor (or the start and end points of the highlighted selection).

To apply edits to one or more objects (and not entire tracks), select the objects (whether within the same track, or spanning multiple tracks) and use the Object Editor (ctrl-O).

If you're working in a Virtual Project (which you should do), there shouldn't be any need to "process in place" since SAM provides real-time preview playback of edits (whether track- or object-based, or both).

Happy playing around.  It took me a while to learn SAM, but once I reached a certain threshold of knowledge, it became far easier, flexible, and powerful than any editor I'd used previously (Audacity, Audition, WaveLab).

[Gutbucket]

Brian posted while I was typing and is far more expert at things Samplitude than I.  I'll bow out, but will post what I've typed anyway..

(Disclaimer- I use Samplitide10 and am in no way expert or even well versed with it)

In Samplitude there are multiple levels on which you can do the same tasks in different ways.  Sometimes it's easier to use one or the other for certain things, often it's a matter of which way you are more comfortable working or know how to do.  You can work at file level (directly editing the wav), track level, object level, mixer level, etc.  In addition you can work distructively (directly editing the wav) or virtually (non distructive) for most things.

Dividing things into objects is a good way to narrow down the focus of what you want to work on to only a specific range. You can link objects, copy values between them, etc.

You might check your version to see what tools are available other than simple EQ to help with the feedback portion.  There are some powerful tools for noise reduction in there which I think are in most all versions.  My version (samp 10 master) is track limited but subsitutes some additional spectral editing tools similar to IzotopeRX that can be used to reduce or eliminate offending sounds by drawing boxes around the offending sounds in a spectral display view.  Not sure, but that may now be included in the newer, full featured version of the program.

[macdaddy]

+1 for using a VIP (virtual project)

Re: objects
When you load the audio files, each file is an object. Ctrl a select them all. Ctrl o opens the object editor window.


Hth.

[kcmule]

Thanks again for the replies.  I'll study the objects, but likely won't get to that today.

[fobstl]

Per Gutbucket's mention there is a Spectral Cleaning tool included with Samplitude 11.  I have messed with it a bit to take out individual claps but have not exactly figured out how to save the changes in the files. This tool may work for feedback also. Here is a explanation on how it works:
http://www.samplitude.com/us/spectral-cleaning.1458.html

Has anyone else had any luck using this tool?

[kcmule]

Per Gutbucket's mention there is a Spectral Cleaning tool included with Samplitude 11.  I have messed with it a bit to take out individual claps but have not exactly figured out how to save the changes in the files. This tool may work for feedback also. Here is a explanation on how it works:
http://www.samplitude.com/us/spectral-cleaning.1458.html

Has anyone else had any luck using this tool?

I messed with this for just a few minutes.  It appears you use the Calculate button
to apply the tool, but it does it in a destructive fasion as far as I can tell.  In my case
I used damping, which ended up being pretty much a mute operation.

[ghellquist]

I messed with this for just a few minutes.  It appears you use the Calculate button
to apply the tool, but it does it in a destructive fasion as far as I can tell.

Not if you work in a VIP. It writes a new file with the edited stuff. The original file is left untouched and you can always return to that.

 I tend to save a new version of the VIP before doing a larger change. Maybe calling them version 1, version 2 and so on. The VIP is a smallish file describing how to treat the sound files which stay unmodified. ( Unless you use the wav editor which I never use ) . Sometimes extra files are " frozen  " with copied and modified stuff, but again the standard mode is to not change the original soind file.

I find the spectral cleaning tool to be quite useful, takes a bit of familirisation to be proficient in using it though. Generally it is not possible or even wanted to remove all traces of feedback, but is rather easy to get it low enough tp not disturb.

If you are serious about mixing it pays to be really learn to know Sam. It is a seriously deep tool. The manusl though is really bad. There are some videos by craznet on the net that are good starting points to learn.

Gunnar

[kcmule]

Not if you work in a VIP. It writes a new file with the edited stuff. The original file is left untouched and you can always return to that.

I see now that you can set the options to create a new file or append, etc..  Tracks are suffixed in "_FX"

I find the spectral cleaning tool to be quite useful, takes a bit of familirisation to be proficient in using it though. Generally it is not possible or even wanted to remove all traces of feedback, but is rather easy to get it low enough tp not disturb.

I'm still trying to get used to it and/or figure it out.  I've managed to remove some of the
feedback but can't quite get the results I'm really looking for.  It seems I can't create a
range selection anywhere I want to.  Example:  I can create a range at 1:10:38:100 but
if I try at 1:10:38:200 it won't let me start the range by picking a point and dragging the
box around the section I want.  Shrug.

If you are serious about mixing it pays to be really learn to know Sam. It is a seriously deep tool. The manusl though is really bad. There are some videos by craznet on the net that are good starting points to learn.

Gunnar

I'll look for those videos.

[kcmule]

I'm still trying to get used to it and/or figure it out.  I've managed to remove some of the
feedback but can't quite get the results I'm really looking for.  It seems I can't create a
range selection anywhere I want to.  Example:  I can create a range at 1:10:38:100 but
if I try at 1:10:38:200 it won't let me start the range by picking a point and dragging the
box around the section I want.  Shrug.

This may have to do with the length of the object.  Still testing.

[Gutbucket]

Object must be long enough to fully encompass the range you're trying to select.  You  might also check to see if you have some sort of snap-to function turned on which is forcing alignment of the range box you are trying to draw.  Applogies if my terminology is incorrect. 

I need to check out those videos too.

[kcmule]

Object must be long enough to fully encompass the range you're trying to select.  You  might also check to see if you have some sort of snap-to function turned on which is forcing alignment of the range box you are trying to draw.  Applogies if my terminology is incorrect. 

I need to check out those videos too.

I thought the object was long enough, apparently not.   Lengthened it and seemed to
work better.  I'll look for a snap setting.

Well,  I went through every track, one at a time, using the Spectral Cleaning tool and it
worked well.  I can still barely hear the feedback but it's better x100.  Still might try and
get the last little bit, just because I'm anal, but making progress nonetheless.

[Gutbucket]

Good to hear.

Since the spectral cleaning algorythm looks at the data on either side of your selection (in it's typical setting) in doing the reconstruction, the object that contains that selection probably has to be somewhat longer in time than the selection itself.  How much more I have no idea.

[kcmule]

Good to hear.

Since the spectral cleaning algorythm looks at the data on either side of your selection (in it's typical setting) in doing the reconstruction, the object that contains that selection probably has to be somewhat longer in time than the selection itself.  How much more I have no idea.

Makes sense.  I'll go back and lengthen my object even more so I have additional
data each side of my selection and see if that makes any difference in this case.