Topic: mini dv VS dvd camcorder

[kidrocklive]

I know this isn't a filmer forum necessarly, but i'm hoping maybe someone here can help me out.

I've recently been thinking about getting into filming local bands in my area that are open to filming. I've heard from a few ppl that mini DV cams are better than DVD cams and some say that DVD cams are better than mini DV cams. I'm curious to you guys what you think is better, i've read up on em and i still can't really make my mind up. Obviously the dvd is easier, it goes straight onto the dvd and plays in your dvd player no problem, however i read somewhere that you need to mess with the settings on it or something to get it to go onto the dvd as a video_ts folder because it can go on there as VRB or something like that rather than VOB and then you have a hard time copying the dvd, cause programs can't read it or something like that. Also I read that you can't edit the video without re-encoding the video itself off of the dvd, which loses quality. I read taht mini DV cams generally have better quality and because it's on a mini dv tape you can edit the video and stuff using software (not that I really know how to do that anyway, but I might learn in the future). However the tapes themselfs cost quite a bit (like 15 for 2 tapes), where as with the DVD camcorder I could get dvdRAM discs and just record a show, use my pc to copy it and then use the dvdRAM disc over again, so from that aspect it would save me a lot of money.

Also I have a friend who's looking to sell his dvd camcorder shown here:

http://reviews.cnet.com/Hitachi_DZMV270A/4507-6500_7-20097660.html?tag=tab

for 225, with a carrying bag, and some other stuff. He said it originally cost him like 500 or so, and is perfectly fine, he's just selling it because he thought he'd get into filming shows but decided to just stick with audio.

I don't planning really getting into filming majorly, just doing it as a hobby on the side and dont really want it costing a whole lot of money, however I don't really want the stuff i'm filming to turn out like crap or look crappy. Anyway if anybody has any ideas on what I should do, and if my friends cam is a good deal please let me know as i'm not necessarlly really knowledgable on this stuff yet haha. Thanks again. - Scott

[cavis]

dvd i think you can only record like 20 minutes, miniDVD you get 90 minutes per tape. i'd take miniDV over dvd easily.

also, if you order your tapes online, they are alot cheaper. i think what wal-mart or best buy would have is what you described. i orders 10 miniDV tapes for $30 from amazon, and the dude i bought from messed up and actually sent me two seperate packages, each with 10 miniDV tapes in them. once i run out of tapes i'll be ordering more from there.

[kidrocklive]

well i know that the discs have different settings on them too, like for mini dv there's also a 60min mode that allows for higher quality. So i'd imagine that there is a higher setting for dvds besides just 20mins. But then again i'm not sure how much the quality would suffer from that. But anyway thanks for your help, I appricate getting ppls opinions that know more about this stuff than me, if anybody else knows anything please feel free to voice it :-)

[Chad817]

mini dvd records right to mpeg2, at a cbr I would imagine.  That right there is enough to make me never touch one.  I'd rather have a higher quality dv master, that I can compress to my own settings.  Plus, you'll get more time on dv, so less changing media during the show.

[kidrocklive]

mini dvd records right to mpeg2, at a cbr I would imagine.  That right there is enough to make me never touch one.  I'd rather have a higher quality dv master, that I can compress to my own settings.  Plus, you'll get more time on dv, so less changing media during the show.

Yeh, it seems like that's what I should get. Do those camcorders have good sound right out of the box or do ppl usually use other, more expensive external mics? I'd perfer to get one that I wouldn't have to do that with, as i'm not exactly wanting this to be an insainely expensive hobby, if I can help it.

[cavis]

for miniDV you can record for 60 minues on SP or 90 minutes on LP. they are both digital though, so there is no change at all in quality.

as for an external mic, you might want to check on ebay for a Realistic 33-1065. they can go for as low as $10 on there, and give you a really good bang for your buck. just make sure whatever camera you buy has a mic input so you will be able to use an external mic.

[kidrocklive]

for miniDV you can record for 60 minues on SP or 90 minutes on LP. they are both digital though, so there is no change at all in quality.

as for an external mic, you might want to check on ebay for a Realistic 33-1065. they can go for as low as $10 on there, and give you a really good bang for your buck. just make sure whatever camera you buy has a mic input so you will be able to use an external mic.

wow, a $10 mic is better than what's already in it? that seems really messed up to me lol

[Morphius]

The best bang for your buck (assuming you can do it) is to have a taper friend do the audio, then sync afterwards.  While it's a bit more involved, you'll thank yourself in the end.

I also suggest running the DV tape in LP mode.  The quality is the same, but make sure you import the DV tape to your computer on the SAME recorder you shot the show with.  Otherwise you'll drop frames.

[kidrocklive]

The best bang for your buck (assuming you can do it) is to have a taper friend do the audio, then sync afterwards.  While it's a bit more involved, you'll thank yourself in the end.

I also suggest running the DV tape in LP mode.  The quality is the same, but make sure you import the DV tape to your computer on the SAME recorder you shot the show with.  Otherwise you'll drop frames.

yeh that would be the ideal best choice with the guy doing audio but I don't really know anybody (or am friends with anybody) that does audio around me. Maybe when I start this I could ask around and see if anybody wants to hook up and do a show so then i'd meet ppl. Right now i'm basically just looking for a camcorder that has a decent mic already on it so that I can film some stuff and have it sound pretty good  right out of the box (because me buying the camcorder ingeneral is gonna put a hurting on me so I wouldn't be able to go buying some good external mics for it til sometime later). Does anybody have any sugguestions on  a specific brand or camcorder model I should get. I think my limit on teh cam itself is gonna be 500. I don't really wanna spend more than that, if I can help it.

[sabre]

Definitely go with miniDV. It's a no brainer. Longer recording times and higher quality video over DVD.
Also, if you're filming with permission using an external mic is a very good idea. There's just a couple of things to keep in mind. If you're recording loud rock music with a high SPL (sound pressure level) you will *need* to get external power for the mics (battery box) otherwise your mics will distort. You can purchase a simple battery box (basically a small case that houses a 9 volt battery) from www.soundprofessionals.com . There are other options you can get with your battery box (for an additional price) such as level controls and bass roll-off which you may want to consider.
The battery box will prevent your mics from distorting but you also need an 'attenuation cable' for your video camera. If you're using a consumer videocamera, then the camera has inbuilt circuitry that automatically amplifies the incoming signal. You will need to attenuate the incoming signal with a 30db attenuator. You can also get these from www.soundprofessionals.com
Finally, you will need a tripod. I can't recommend any tripods as all my video taping is stealth, but there are a number of threads in this forum that discuss good stabilisation devices.
All the best with your new hobby - and I want to reiterate. Don't buy a DVD camcorder.

[kidrocklive]

Definitely go with miniDV. It's a no brainer. Longer recording times and higher quality video over DVD.
Also, if you're filming with permission using an external mic is a very good idea. There's just a couple of things to keep in mind. If you're recording loud rock music with a high SPL (sound pressure level) you will *need* to get external power for the mics (battery box) otherwise your mics will distort. You can purchase a simple battery box (basically a small case that houses a 9 volt battery) from www.soundprofessionals.com . There are other options you can get with your battery box (for an additional price) such as level controls and bass roll-off which you may want to consider.
The battery box will prevent your mics from distorting but you also need an 'attenuation cable' for your video camera. If you're using a consumer videocamera, then the camera has inbuilt circuitry that automatically amplifies the incoming signal. You will need to attenuate the incoming signal with a 30db attenuator. You can also get these from www.soundprofessionals.com
Finally, you will need a tripod. I can't recommend any tripods as all my video taping is stealth, but there are a number of threads in this forum that discuss good stabilisation devices.
All the best with your new hobby - and I want to reiterate. Don't buy a DVD camcorder.

Is there any specific cam you recommend? The camcorder my filmer friend recommended (the Sony HC-21) doesn't seem to have a line-in (mic slot) so i'd be unable to get external mics and use them on the cam. I won't be able to purchase mics and stuff right off the bat seeing as the cam will put a hurting on me, but I would look into getting some later on down the road once I get some more money saved up again.

[sabre]

I have a Sony HC30 (which is last year's model) and it has a mic input. I believe the HC-30, and HC-40 both have mic inputs, so you may want to have a look at the older models. The optical zoom on last years models is only 10X though, while the HC-21 is 20X.
I'm reasonably happy with my HC-30. I've posted some caps from a show in the following thread http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=45506.msg589789#msg589789
One final thing you should consider if you're using these cameras with a tripod. Most consumer cameras nowadays have a bottom feeding tape mechanism. If you're using a tripod, the tape entry is blocked so you will need to unscrew the tripod connector whenever you need to change tapes.

[beatkilla]

Well,I'm new to VIDEO taping.

But i've made a handful,and i'm using the Sony DCR HC21.

It has NO mic input,but i am usually not filming directly in front of the stack so the audio from a slight distance has actually turned really nice.

However i sometimes record the audio seperate with MD and i can stand in front of the stack if i want and mix them later.

And i'm using panasonic 80min. DV tapes, 80 SP and 120 LP.

There available.

So,you can use that cam right out of the box and i think you can get it new for $330.

And like the other guy said get a tripod,or at least a monopod that shortens into a chest pod.You'll definitely need it,and lots of practice.

 Remember to dis-attach your cam from the tripod before ejecting the tape to insert a new one,ust like he other guy mentioned......this happened to me earlier today at TED NUGENT.......i had big problems after that so be careful.

[kidrocklive]

Is there any mini DV cam with a mic in slot that's reasonably priced and is still good like the hc-21, I would rather do that because it's less work with trying to sync the audio to the video and it saves me from having to buy one of those MD recorders and still have to buy a mic too.

[firmdragon]

the used sony trv series, circa 2003.  i think most of them have it.