Topic: Team classical recording

[Gutbucket]

Nooo! I hope you can avoid the PA if possible.  It can be done, but if it's not done well it destroys much of what makes classical music so interesting and involving and different from many other forms of modern music, at least for me.  It's much trickier to do well than reinforcing a rock band and sound guys who work bars around VCU that mostly play amplified stuff are not likely to master it quickly, and even if done technically well, changes important aspects of what makes 'chamber music' unique.

Hopefully they can simply select and play lively fortississimo pieces in decently live rooms without massive levels of background noise from HVAC/blowers, and if possible arrange things so people interested in the music can sit closer, and others can talk at the bar farther away.

Maybe reinforcement will be necessary, but I'd consider it a last resort.  Treating it something like a traditional blugrass act playing around a couple mics in the middle of the group would probably be the most fruitful approach and less foreign to decent sound guys around there I'd think.

As for chamber groups playing amplified with close mic’ing, I've seen Turtle Island Quartet recently and Kronos Quartet a few times in the past, both of which were excellent sounding exceptions, and their playing styles and techniques take specific advantage of what the PA can do other than simply make them louder without timbre and dynamics suffering much for it.  I was very interested to check out their reinforcement techniques and efforts.  They played PA amplified in theaters, but obviously have made a long-term effort to perfect the reinforcement and are top of the crop.

But those groups have a different focus in that they are modifying the traditional definition of what chamber music has been and has sounded like.  Since the goal here is instead performance of high-quality chamber music in non-traditional settings, (presumably traditional chamber music), it seems to me that preserving the traditional aspects of 'high-quality chamber music' which have value in those non-traditional settings is an important goal, as much as that’s possible.

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I've finally uploaded a sample of mine from the 4015s. (24bit, no processing, needs about 2db of gain in the left channel). 90degrees, about 19cm.

[bombdiggity]

I've finally uploaded a sample of mine from the 4015s. (24bit, no processing, needs about 2db of gain in the left channel). 90degrees, about 19cm.

Thanks.  Interesting.  More power to 'em. 

I saw Joel Harrison's String Choir up here recently (ostensibly - and at least partly - playing the music of Paul Motian) and it was chamber/classical in orientation (that seems to be where his head is at these days).  So it was two electric guitars (Harrison and Steve Cardenas) and violin (ex-Turtle Island String Quartet), viola (Mat Maneri) and cello.  The were all amplified (guitar, cello) or mic'd overhead (violin and viola), as one might expect in a moderately sized hall (250-ish) with those dynamics in the mix.  In a pre-show talk he was discussing the classical/jazz synergy/dichotomy a bit. 

I do wind up seeing some "chamber jazz"...  also caught William Parker's Double Quartet (with a lot of strings) at the same place.  Have not really ventured to straight classical as I like improvisation (which is not necessarily a staple of classical music, though if one gets to know it well enough you do start to hear the individuality come through a bit).  I did also see that one of the NSO's violinists was joining the DC Jazz Jam last weekend, though missed that. 

As far as mics if you have access to some MK4V's try them on strings.  I have never heard anything better on strings (especially cello, which I do love) - unamplified, amplified and even mixed with effects.  The sweetness of the sound is enough that I don't even really care if I like what they're playing too much... 

The Harrison was good and sounded fine.  It's edited but not sure where I'll put it (or when I can do that). 


@ Jon Stoppable : "Most classical musicians HATE sound reinforcement,"

Some jazz musicians hate sound reinforcement too    Ask Lee Konitz about that sometime... or maybe not if you're the one who wants to set up mics.    

[Gutbucket]

Some jazz musicians hate sound reinforcement too    Ask Lee Konitz about that sometime... or maybe not if you're the one who wants to set up mics.   

So does Konitz get worked up if you only want to send mics signal to a recorder and not a PA?

I'm pretty much in that boat as well, just not as strongly as with classical, and find more good exceptions.  My problems with jazz reinforcement usually arise from attempts to PA reinforce rooms designed for accoustic music rather than in messing up the acoustic nature of it.

Looking forward to giving your samples a listen, Page.

[Ultfris101]

For comparisons if anybody is interested I have everything I pulled out of the session Page and I recorded out here: https://docs.google.com/folder/d/0B_HyJhyb2H9vaXhTSUw0MHVUM1E/edit

MP3's under Classical Revolution RVA dir and 24bit flacs under the "classicalrevolution....flac24" dir. The longer tracks are mostly music, shorter ones are bits of music but mostly talking and shuffling of musicians.

Edit: although I see now that Google Drive doesn't show file sizes so it's probably hard to figure out which tracks are which. When I get home I'll point out the few that are the longer sets of music.

i ran the ADK TLs on the same stand with page, stagelip about 7-8ft angled slightly down over the musicians.

[bombdiggity]

Some jazz musicians hate sound reinforcement too    Ask Lee Konitz about that sometime... or maybe not if you're the one who wants to set up mics.   

So does Konitz get worked up if you only want to send mics signal to a recorder and not a PA?

He doesn't like mics at all.  The show I have in mind he walked in and told the sound guys to take them all away.  Didn't really need them.  I got to leave mine into the recorder off stage but close (that time) since it was for the organizer of the date and maybe he was in a good mood.  Next time around he didn't want any for any purposes (though later asked if it was recorded since he thought it was a good one)...  He's a tad mercurial...  Plays great though. 

[Ultfris101]

page and I recorded Classical Incarnations in Richmond, VA Sunday night. I ran AKG 480 ck62 omnis (~ortf, 110*, ~12in separation) this time and page the DPA 4015 about 8ft up at stagelip over the performers. This was more formal than the "jam session" but still a very loose event with a wide range of skill levels and instruments including violins, cellos, french horns, piano, voice, and I think my favorite from the evening a harp.





Update: I'll add that I'm in search of a service to make it easier to let a musician preview a recording without making it fully available on the internet. For example, the woman I'm working with had some challenges getting samples off of Google Drive (see my question in Ask The Tapers if you have any ideas: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=160314.0)

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I have a better appreciation for why people want to "fly" rigs now. There is a time and a place for each setup and I'd sort of forgotten when and where I might want to fly my mics without a stand.

Now I just need a pickup and 20' ladder that folds up...

[Ultfris101]

Indeed, i'm thinking of ways to hang 4061s out of the christmas light overhead and run a cable over and down the wall near the PA setup.

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Indeed, i'm thinking of ways to hang 4061s out of the christmas light overhead and run a cable over and down the wall near the PA setup.

That's probably the best pair to use for something like this for a series of reasons (small, unobtrusive, light weight). Only thing I'd worry about is a longer cable run without a balanced signal, especially running cables near those lights. We'll figure something out.

[Gutbucket]

Photo of four 4060s in a chandelier.  The 4060s are mounted in the charcoal colored spheres on the ends of telescopic TV antennae. No cable run though, recorders and preamps were stashed in the light fixture.   If powering them with the DPA XLR adapters or Niant PFAs you'd have a balanced run from that point onwards.

[bobbygeeWOW]

Classic Gut rig.

Not that we'll ever get to hear it .....   

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If powering them with the DPA XLR adapters or Niant PFAs you'd have a balanced run from that point onwards.

I was about to contest that, but then I looked up the DPA microdot/xlr adapters. So yes, I agree with that. Carry on. 

[Gutbucket]

[F.O.Bean]