Topic: Team classical recording

[Ultfris101]

I ordered a second microdot/xlr adapter so that will be an option. Might also give the AKG active gear I ordered from Jon a whirl as well at some point once I have that in hand. Next classical performance will be in mid-Feb.

Now I'm contemplating recording Gamelan Raga Kusuma (music and dancing) in the same venue next week.

[F.O.Bean]

Do it!

[page]

Sooo... Is there a rule of thumb related to the optimum angle down and aim point of a stereo pair if you're setup behind a conductor? (e.g. 30 degrees below level and aimed 2/3rds of the way deep into the orchestra)



Paging D.Satz and J.Willett, cleanup on aisle 5. Thank you.

[DigiGal]

Sooo... Is there a rule of thumb related to the optimum angle down and aim point of a stereo pair if you're setup behind a conductor? (e.g. 30 degrees below level and aimed 2/3rds of the way deep into the orchestra)



Paging D.Satz and J.Willett, cleanup on aisle 5. Thank you.

try 5 degrees downward tilt

[page]

Sooo... Is there a rule of thumb related to the optimum angle down and aim point of a stereo pair if you're setup behind a conductor? (e.g. 30 degrees below level and aimed 2/3rds of the way deep into the orchestra)



Paging D.Satz and J.Willett, cleanup on aisle 5. Thank you.

try 5 degrees downward tilt

and aim where (which would thus give me a height).

[DigiGal]

Sooo... Is there a rule of thumb related to the optimum angle down and aim point of a stereo pair if you're setup behind a conductor? (e.g. 30 degrees below level and aimed 2/3rds of the way deep into the orchestra)



Paging D.Satz and J.Willett, cleanup on aisle 5. Thank you.

try 5 degrees downward tilt

and aim where (which would thus give me a height).



Place the mic pair about 6.5 to 8 feet higher than the performance floor, about 4 to 6.5 feet behind the conductor, tilt the array down 5°.  Listen carefully to results after recording a rehearsal, adjust distance and height until satisfied with the ambience and imaging.

[page]

Sooo... Is there a rule of thumb related to the optimum angle down and aim point of a stereo pair if you're setup behind a conductor? (e.g. 30 degrees below level and aimed 2/3rds of the way deep into the orchestra)



Paging D.Satz and J.Willett, cleanup on aisle 5. Thank you.

try 5 degrees downward tilt

and aim where (which would thus give me a height).



Place the mic pair about 6.5 to 8 feet higher than the performance floor, about 4 to 6.5 feet behind the conductor, tilt the array down 5°.  Listen carefully to results after recording a rehearsal, adjust distance and height until satisfied with the ambience and imaging.

Really, that low for a mid-sized chamber orchestra? That looks like I'd be losing the direct sound (as blocked by sheet stands) for anything past the first or second row if I was under 9' off the stage floor. Am I missing something? I get the 6' back from the conductor, that gets a nice orchestral angle, but the low height throws me for a loop.

Unfortunately practice/listening isn't an option for this, so I'm trying to compensate with extra planning... I have a sneaky suspicion that I'll be at a minimum of 8' off the stage floor (tall conductor...)

[F.O.Bean]

I would record at a height equal to the orchestra and maybe just a few feet behind the conductor

[bobbygeeWOW]

I record a jazz orchestra with a stand right behind the conductor on a regular basis.
Tried a bunch of different heights (and mic configs) over the years, basically by eyeballing from the stage, then listening back..
Obviously conditions vary and its a game of finding a useful compromise.

I think the only reference that would be useful for you is that I try to get a balanced sound by thinking of placing the mics sort of equidistant from all rows of performers, front to back.
So adding height moves the mics away from the front row saxes (loud), and effectively sort of brings the mid-row trombone section (quiet) more into the mix. (Trumpets in the back have no problem projecting..)
The actual placement would be unique for the riser configuration they use on stage.

I additionally also run/split a couple spot mics for quiet instruments like percussion and vocals to get them to tape at decent levels for later blending.


 -Cheers!

[Ultfris101]

page and I are actually tackling very similar challenges this week. Without the benefit of practice taping a rehearsal I think I am going to start about 9ft with a small amount of downward angle. I will dust of my junior high trig and do some rough calculations to see if I'm way off once I see how they physically setup the group to aim for equal distances.

Thanks for the helpful responses to page's questions which in turn benefit me as well. At the very least I feel like I have a good place to start from with a reasonable chance of decent results. I'm recording Thursday so I can take notes and let page benefit from what I learn. I don't expect to have my KCY Tinybox yet so my Schoeps are out but I will probably run page's DPA 4015 subcard pair he has generously loaned me.

[DigiGal]

There are several iOS Apps (i.e.: iHandy Level, Clinometer+3, etc.) that are handy to measure your tilt angle.

iHandy Level Free By iHandy Inc.



Clinometer+3 By michael heinz

[page]

I think the only reference that would be useful for you is that I try to get a balanced sound by thinking of placing the mics sort of equidistant from all rows of performers, front to back.
So adding height moves the mics away from the front row saxes (loud), and effectively sort of brings the mid-row trombone section (quiet) more into the mix. (Trumpets in the back have no problem projecting..)
The actual placement would be unique for the riser configuration they use on stage

Thanks. His was where I was headed in that ive done jazz recording exactly like this (irnically, i fnd trmbones loud and trumpets quiet, i guess i know loud trombone players or quiet trumpeters... actually it probably because reading sheet music with a trumpet necessitates "looking" down and effectively muting it some)

First, most of the strings will be targeted/tilted upward in their radiation pattern. Second, i find sheet stands to be blockers in terms of clear sound, more so than i would have expected. This is also a carry over from jazz recording, so I didnt know if folks did anything to compensate for that. Like chris, I appreciate the responses.

[Gutbucket]

Music stands suck.

[ScoobieKW]

Music stands suck.

one more reason to listen to improvised music... 

[Tom McCreadie]

Sooo... Is there a rule of thumb related to the optimum angle down and aim point of a stereo pair if you're setup behind a conductor? (e.g. 30 degrees below level and aimed 2/3rds of the way deep into the orchestra)

Ensure that the angle subtended to the stand top by the L- and R-edges of the orchestra fits comfortably within the recording angle of the array. Normally you would need ca. 90 deg (+/- 45) subtended when using an ORTF setup, but ca. 80 deg. (bit further back) for NOS. Try to even out the intensity (distance) differences  between the front and rear orchestra rows by raising the mics. This will also minimize the effect of one musician blocking the sound of a player behind him (less of an issue if the musicians are on a "terraced" podium.) When using unidirectional mics like cardioids, it can help to point the mics slightly downwards, but at the rear row. By feathering the mics over the heads of first row, you enlist the off-axis level drop-off of the cardioids to help manage the front/rear level inbalance.

After a final check that the direct/reverb ratio is pleasant (by listening through one ear), you might typically be ca. 3m behind the conductor and 3-4m high. Then the test recording and tweaking can begin in earnest  :-).

Li