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Gear / Technical Help => Battery Boxes, Preamps, Mixers, ADCs, and Processors => Topic started by: NOLAfishwater on November 12, 2008, 12:53:14 PM
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trying to get a gauge. I run it on low gain in the 11:00 position. For Panic I ran it at 1:00 and feel like I could have pushed it hotter. Also my power supply can send 16V or 19V, does it sound better at a higher voltage?
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while I dont own a lemosax I run mine wide open on low gain using two 9v batts. I tend to push around 38db of gain if I need a few more I add it on the 744. keep in mind thats with the dpa's.
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yeah with the schoeps you don't need to run it past about 2:00 for a rock show.
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I've ran Jimbo's lemosax with my Neumanns on low gain and would run it scorching hot into a V3. The V3 would clip before the lemosax would clip. Low stuff would be around 1:00 (or 22-23 dbs) while quieter stuff would be in the 5:00 (38 dbs) range.
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i tend to run it between 1>2 on the dial.... but I have only used it at loud shows so far (Mule/DBT)
but I've wondered that same thing Louie. Really love this little box
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Schoeps MK4V for rock shows - low gain, 20-25dB (around 12 o'clock).
Schoeps MK4V for classical/acoustic - high gain, 35-40dB (again, around 12 o'clock).
AK50 for rock is a touch hotter, maybe 30dB for rock (1 o'clock).
Typically run it into a mod SBM at 2-4 on the dial.
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So I ran the Lemosax tonight at LoGain in the 2 PM location. Didn't show that it was clipping at all, however when I got home and am looking at the waves, they appear to have brickwalled. It has never happened to me. WTF. Anyone care to explain. So fucking weird. The only thing I can think of is that I had it in the middle gain setting. not Hi or Lo. Definitely user error somewhere.
Top: MK41>KC5>CMC6>ACM V3
Bottom: MK5 Card>KCY>Lemosax
(http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r38/NOLAfishwater/brickwalllemosax.jpg)
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I run my lemo sax at Low gain 20 db.
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nola,
from the user manual:
GAIN SELECTOR
The gain switch has three positions. The center position ensures the 0dB gain
(unity gain). In this case, the output level is equal to the input level. This could be of
help when the SX-M2 is used as an impedance adapter, or a balanced line driver.
The "LO" gain position allows 6dB to 40dB gain, and the "HI" gain position, 20dB to
76dB.
i always ran mine on lo, set between 11 & 1 o'clock, depending on how loud or
how close i was... onstage stuff was sometimes around 9-10 o'clock...
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I think I must have been running it too hot, but the OVD light wasn't flashing even though it was brickwalling. Weird.
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What was the full chain? MK5>Lemosax to MT? R44? V3? That might narrow down what happened.
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What was the full chain? MK5>Lemosax to MT? R44? V3? That might narrow down what happened.
MK5 Card>KCY>Lemosax>KindKable Interconnects>R-44
I just did a test in my living room and confirmed that even though the OVD lights (which indicate clipping) were not coming on, I was still brickwalling. I must have been running it too hot at the 2:00 position. It was really loud in there. I set the levels by reducing the gain until the OVD lights were no longer flashing. Was using a 19V external battery pack to power it.
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I set mine at 10 o clock LOW gain and the edirol gain at 6-7 and still had 2 clips for Van halen. For Govt Mule i had it set at 10 o clock Low gain and edirol around 7-8 and it ran fine no clips and thats at the beacon on NYE.
Is it best to run the sax at the highest level without clipping or just get enough juice flowing to the mics and boost in post when recording 24 bit?
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I think I must have been running it too hot, but the OVD light wasn't flashing even though it was brickwalling. Weird.
I find this odd too. I have owned a SX-M2 (NakCM301/3/4, KM140 & 481/3) and a Lemosax (MK4V and AK50) and only brickwalled it once when I ran the batteries down too low! Brickwalling will occur if the voltage drops too low.
You sure that the power supply is putting out 19V? I know when the voltage drops to 12.5V strange shit starts to happen. High noise floor, distortion (brickwalling), low output....
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Yeah, I was wondering about the batteries too. The R44 can take a hot signal, so it shouldn't be that.
I looked up the specs on the 'sax. No info on how hot a signal it can take on the input, but it can put out 20dbu on the output. There shouldn't be anyway you'd be overloading the output capabilities of the lemosax using low gain at 2:00 -- I can't imagine with the SPLs at a show and using the mk5 that you'd even get to 6-8dbu on the output.
That leaves overloading the lemosax on the inputs (seems unlikely, unless this happens all the time with schoeps>lemosax combo) or starving the mics for power. If you can try out the caps on someone else's cmc6 bodies + preamp (in a high SPL environment), you could rule out the mk5's themselves. At that point, it seems the options are bad batteries (hopefully) or a DC-DC powering circuit gone bad in the lemosax
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So I taped last night without recharging my 19V battery pack and everything seems to be ok. the only thing I can think of is that I had it on Hi gain and the OVD lights weren't coming. I did notice the whole show that it looked like my levels were brickwalling on the R-44, but didn't take it seriously b/c the OVD lights weren't coming on. Maybe my battery cable was loose and it wasn't getting enough power? is that even possible?
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I doubt it would be a loose battery cable -- either you'd be getting battery power or you wouldn't.
If you had it on high gain, that might definitely explain things. If the mk5's have a sensitivity of 15mv/Pascal (a typical number), with SPLs at 118db (a bit high, but about right), if you then had the 'sax on high gain at about 2:00 (at least 36db of gain?) -- then you'd be asking the 'sax to put out a ~26dbu signal, but it can only put out 20dbu. So you'd be clipping on the output, which would look alot like what you saw.
The OVD lights wouldn't necessarily be lighting up. Over lights can be set up to indicate input overload (too hot of a signal from the mics) or output overload (too much gain, so asking the preamp to put out a hotter signal than it is capable of) -- or both. If the OVD lights are only designed to indicate clipping on the mic input side, they wouldn't light even if you were clipping on the output.
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I doubt it would be a loose battery cable -- either you'd be getting battery power or you wouldn't.
If you had it on high gain, that might definitely explain things. If the mk5's have a sensitivity of 15mv/Pascal (a typical number), with SPLs at 118db (a bit high, but about right), if you then had the 'sax on high gain at about 2:00 (at least 36db of gain?) -- then you'd be asking the 'sax to put out a ~26dbu signal, but it can only put out 20dbu. So you'd be clipping on the output, which would look alot like what you saw.
The OVD lights wouldn't necessarily be lighting up. Over lights can be set up to indicate input overload (too hot of a signal from the mics) or output overload (too much gain, so asking the preamp to put out a hotter signal than it is capable of) -- or both. If the OVD lights are only designed to indicate clipping on the mic input side, they wouldn't light even if you were clipping on the output.
yeah, I probably had it set on Hi gain.
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so I ran it Midside with MK21 as Mid. Actually taped in two different venues. The first was Tipitinas and ran 15' from stage with Lo Gain in the 10:30 position. That set looks fine with no clipping. Actually think I could have run a little hotter. The other venue was Le Bon Temps and I set up 2' from the band and reduced the the gain to 9:00 on the left channel and 7:30 on the right channel (which is almost all the way down). The Left or Mid brickwalled, but I didn't notice it on the R-44. Maybe I should run it in the Unity Gain setting when running on stage/stage. Will it hurt anything to change the gain setting when the unit is on?
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The other venue was Le Bon Temps and I set up 2' from the band and reduced the the gain to 9:00 on the left channel and 7:30 on the right channel (which is almost all the way down).
Something is strange with your Lemosax or the mk8 for it to be clipping all the way down at those gain levels unless somehow you were micing the monitors on stage with the mid-channel (perhaps you were closer than you thought to them and those things were cranked). Then again, I have not run mine for MS and have no experience with it under those conditions. Funny thing is the mk8 outputs even less than the mk21 (10 vs 13mA/Pascal).
Will it hurt anything to change the gain setting when the unit is on?
Nope, I have done it and I think the switch will 'click' or 'pop' very slightly. You run it at unity gain setting and risk raising the noise floor significantly, according to Skalinder and my observations.
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The other venue was Le Bon Temps and I set up 2' from the band and reduced the the gain to 9:00 on the left channel and 7:30 on the right channel (which is almost all the way down).
Something is strange with your Lemosax or the mk8 for it to be clipping all the way down at those gain levels unless somehow you were micing the monitors on stage with the mid-channel (perhaps you were closer than you thought to them and those things were cranked). Then again, I have not run mine for MS and have no experience with it under those conditions. Funny thing is the mk8 outputs even less than the mk21 (10 vs 13mA/Pascal).
Will it hurt anything to change the gain setting when the unit is on?
Nope, I have done it and I think the switch will 'click' or 'pop' very slightly. You run it at unity gain setting and risk raising the noise floor significantly, according to Skalinder and my observations.
Well, it was loud and I was set up 2' from the drum set. MK8 was not clipping it was the Left or Mid (MK21) that was clipping. I guess I was just too close. I was listening back to it and it doesn't really sound bad at all. Guess I will have to run it all the way down when running so close to the sound source on Lo Gain. Thats the good thing about running 4 channels :) I can experiment. I wish I could monitor my levels better, but that is what you sacrifice when using the Lemosax. Really love how easy it is to set up. I have run the MK5 omnis through them on stage at 10:00 with no clipping. Maybe the Omnis can handle higher SPL's?