Topic: Circular taping

[macroint]

Taped an annual show billed as "Rap in the Round" where the bands set up in a circle (5 stages). Each act plays one song and they continue this for five rounds. Each stage has it's own speakers. The audience is within the circle. I was set up in a less than ideal position, though I did rotate the mics towards each stage. The recording was made as one file. As a result of not being in a good position to catch one of the stages, the levels are lower for the acts on that stage. I'm hesitant to adjust the levels for parts of the recording...thinking I'd rather do what I can with the entire file.

There's really no question here...just wanna hear comments/suggestions if anyone would like to share.

[T.J.]

if it were me i'd probably split each performance into it's own track then perform post work to each file individually.

depending on what audio editing software you use, i'm sure theres an option to gradually increase gain based on markers you setup.

sounds like a wild setup for a show!

[jefflester]

Cool, kinda the opposite of a place like the Melody Tent.

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

Personally, I would use a Volume Envelope. I know Sound Forge has this...not sure on other editing software (I would be surprised if most don't offer it).

It's pretty easy.

[Gutbucket]

That really begs for a quad surround recording from the center.  Or rather a 5 channel surround if there are 5 stages.
 
That Melody Tent is awesome, tell me more.  I always wanted to drop something like that over a Florida limestone sinkhole.

[dean]

Omni's DFC if the crowd isn't too predominant and you have a chance to do this again.  Sounds really cool.

I agree with this:

if it were me i'd probably split each performance into it's own track then perform post work to each file individually.

and this:

Personally, I would use a Volume Envelope. I know Sound Forge has this...not sure on other editing software (I would be surprised if most don't offer it).

Audacity has it, too, but I think it's called something else...

[Gutbucket]

Omni's DFC if the crowd isn't too predominant and you have a chance to do this again.  Sounds really cool.

^^
I did this from the center of the room with stages at either end once using 4 omnis in a square.  I could just swap channels to turn everything around afterwards.  Always thought it would sound cool played back un-swapped on a traditional quad playback system.  What would probably work better in most rooms is a square near-spaced configuration of four 90 degree cardioids or hypers.  That's a common, simple setup for recording surround ambiances, basically forms 4 DIN arrays, one pointing in each direction.   Choose your pair and direction for simple stereo. It has a name.. Atmos-cross or something like that.  Bars are sold to set it up easily on one stand.

[Frequincy]

Always thought it would sound cool played back un-swapped on a traditional quad playback system. 

Does anyone have a system set up for quad?

When I was at the Conservatory of Recording Arts And Sciences we set up a quad play back system in the SSL lab and our instructor played a Dark Side of the Moon quad LP . It sounded incredible! Until I went to school, I'd never even heard of quad LPs (I grew up in the 80s). Then I look at my Dark Side 5.1 DVDA and it doesent seem as cool. I guess my point is, I'd like to set up a quad system at my house and collect some of the other LPs in that format (like I need another format LOL).

I'm sorry for this tangent.

[Gutbucket]

I'm sorry for this tangent.

I'm not. 
Circular taping implies circular playback.

[cybergaloot]

So, kind of related, I was wondering how you would record a group of people sitting in a circle playing like in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oHfuV3fwuA

I'd worry that a pair of split omni's would pick up too much of the guys on the sides. What if the lead was passed around? How would you handle that?

BTW, the guy singing is Nicky Mathews, a friend of mine from years ago when I lived in Pensacola. You can find a lot more videos of him playing here: http://www.youtube.com/user/barneybb3

[darby]

4 channels... card or hyper
3 as spot mics... mix center mic across both channels in post
1 as vocal/lead guitar mic passed around

BTW... that little boy on the blue guitar
sure didn't want to stay around until the end of that song

So, kind of related, I was wondering how you would record a group of people sitting in a circle playing like in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oHfuV3fwuA
I'd worry that a pair of split omni's would pick up too much of the guys on the sides. What if the lead was passed around?
 How would you handle that?
BTW, the guy singing is Nicky Mathews, a friend of mine from years ago when I lived in Pensacola.
You can find a lot more videos of him playing here: http://www.youtube.com/user/barneybb3

[cybergaloot]

4 channels... card or hyper
3 as spot mics... mix center mic across both channels in post
1 as vocal/lead guitar mic passed around

BTW... that little boy on the blue guitar
sure didn't want to stay around until the end of that song

I've got an R-44 so four channel is possible. Getting people to pass the mic might be problematic though. usually at that sort of informal jam people float in and out of the circle. They are more into playing than being recorded.

That last video was a strummer, this one's a picker! BTW, the guy on bass is also an old friend, Tim Goudy. He was on guitar in the first video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvTnOsGA2nI&feature=related

[Gutbucket]

So, kind of related, I was wondering how you would record a group of people sitting in a circle playing like in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oHfuV3fwuA

I'd worry that a pair of split omni's would pick up too much of the guys on the sides. What if the lead was passed around? How would you handle that?

Yeah, better set something up and then let it become 'invisible' to the performers. 

Healy method (near-spaced back to back omnis) can work for this but still favors parts of the circle over others, both image and timbre-wise somewhat.

I have a crazy idea: Vertically spaced omnis.
My reasoning? One omni in the center of the pickin' circle works great and is the traditional way of recording this type of stuff, yet mono is so 1940's.  A second omni above the main one would provide a nice open sense of space without favoring any particular horizontal direction.  The result wouldn't be traditional stereo as we usually think of it but I bet it would sound nice and open.   Also helps to balance standers vs sitters & low guitars with medium height mandos and head high fiddles.

[Frequincy]

I have a crazy idea: Vertically spaced omnis.
My reasoning? One omni in the center of the pickin' circle works great and is the traditional way of recording this type of stuff, yet mono is so 1940's.  A second omni above the main one would provide a nice open sense of space without favoring any particular horizontal direction.  The result wouldn't be traditional stereo as we usually think of it but I bet it would sound nice and open.   Also helps to balance standers vs sitters & low guitars with medium height mandos and head high fiddles.
[/quote]

I would have fun experimenting with this set up. Not shure how I would pan the two sources though.

Another alternative would be an altered Decca tree for a surround approach and use cards facing each player, so 5 players = 5 mics. I'm thinking like an umbrella looking stand. I've seen something like this before but I can't remember the official name or manufacturer, but it would be simple to just build. The mixing options of this in 5.1 would be lots of fun. You would need a low end transducer right in the center for the LFE channel, I love the sound of a bass fiddle. The possibilities are becoming endless.

[Gutbucket]

I would have fun experimenting with this set up. Not shure how I would pan the two sources though.

Just pan it hard left/right. That will maximize the contribution of the spaced configuration and more importantly cut down on potential comb filtering problems.  Since both omnis are the same horizontal distance to each player there will be no 'lopsidedness' of the image.

If you really want to experiment with the mixing you could toy with sending it though a M/S decoder and mess around with the ratio.  I don't know if that would get you anything though.  I only mention that because I mean to try someth99ng similar with some 4 channel surround recordings of mine where the primary left/right pair had to be discarded, leaving me with only the front/back channels.  Listening to those two channels is in some ways superior to just the right/left channels. Instead of right-vs-left information it's 'upfrontness'-vs-depth.  It sounds especially big and spacious. The problem is that everything front is in the left channel and the ambient reflections and depth is in the right.  I'm thinking mid/side decoding might allow me to place the front channel in the center and the ambient back information at the sides of the stereo image.  Similar application, but the vertical omnis wouldn't have that left/right imaging problem needs fixing.

Another alternative would be an altered Decca tree for a surround approach and use cards facing each player, so 5 players = 5 mics. I'm thinking like an umbrella looking stand. I've seen something like this before but I can't remember the official name or manufacturer, but it would be simple to just build. The mixing options of this in 5.1 would be lots of fun. You would need a low end transducer right in the center for the LFE channel, I love the sound of a bass fiddle. The possibilities are becoming endless.

Keeping the mic setup simple is important for those informal circle jams.  But if that kind of stuff interests you, you might enjoy taking a look at a little 4 channel spaced omni rig I put together detailed here, deep in the Oddball mic techniques - evolution from 'Bug Eye' to 'Quad Eye' rig & beyond thread.  BTW, there is no need to record a LFE channel, it is almost always derived from the main channels in post production, or synthesized for film effects.  Most all music oriented surround ignores the LFE channel anyway or just duplicates some of the same information from the main channels so people feel like it's doing something.  LFE is designed for explosion rumbles not the bottom octave of that string bass.