Topic: Need Advice for Playback from Scratch

[thegreatgumbino]

Got a promotion at work, and the wife said I can get some new toys    Looking to upgrade my playback system.  Currently I do most of my listening in the car or on my computer speakers either upstairs in the loft or at work.  The loft has an iMac that I picked up an M-Audio Firewire Audiophile for so I can listen to 24-bit recordings and process my 24-bit files through Creative iTrigue speakers that IMO sound pretty darn good (keep in mind that I've never had a HQ playback system).  Downstairs I've got an older Aiwa all-in-one bookshelf system that I'd like to upgrade to a decent to HQ 24-bit / 16-bit primary listening system.  The room layout is attached.  The house is an open floor plan, so the kitchen, breakfast nook, dining room, and entry are all open to the living room.  The living & dining room are carpet and the kitchen, breakfast, and entry are tile right now, but I'm going to pull up the carpet and install laminates in the next month or two.  Additionally, I'd like to install a set of cheap to moderate outdoor speakers on the patio that can be driven from the same system.

The tv/stereo will sit on the wall on the right, denoted as the rectangle.  The speakers are denoted by the circles.  I figure budget will be from $1000 to $1500.  I wish I could have picked up the Grace M901 on Audiogon last month to run as the main component, but didn't have the funds then and I don't think I can justify $950 for the one up now. I've read great things about the Sony str-daX000es series units, and figure a series 3 or 5 would be a decent starting place.  I've also read great things about the Von Schweikert VR-1's (wish I had the ok from the wife earlier in the week to have grabbed the VR-3's on Audiogon!).  I've heard good things about the Maggie MMG's, but I have reservations about their appearance.  The wife won't be up for anything that doesn't blend in.  I figure bookshelf speakers would be less obtrusive, but I wonder if they will sound good in this room. 

Ultimately, I want a system that I can enjoy a live show listening experience in the comfort of my home.  I've thought about picking up a squeezebox as well so that I can playback from the mac and stream internet radio without the mac.  If I can figure out a system that includes a cd/dvd player within budget that would be great, but I guess not a necessity right now.  Any advice would be appreciated.

[sygdwm]

cheapest 3000es i could find. mine is refurbished as well:

http://store.advantage123.com/sobgresure.html

best speakers under a grand to me:

http://cgi.ebay.com/B-W-FLOOR-STANDING-SPEAKERS-DM603-DM-603-Orig-Owner_W0QQitemZ280037047693QQihZ018QQcategoryZ14991QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

maybe add a sub:

http://www.shop.com/op/~Velodyne_VRP_Series_VRP_1000_subwoofer-oprod-3181364

[Nick's Picks]

The Sony is a good starting point for a 24bit capable system.  You can just feed it a digital signal and you're good to go.  an old PC or something w/a digi sound card and you're in business in terms of source.

as for speakers...
Maggies are out w/that amp.  so dont worry about those.  Also,  low WAF.
the VS VR1s is a GREAT recomendation.  You wont even need a sub right away.  they go pretty low on their own, and in the right room they'll charge things up nicely.

If you want to save a bit more money, try some other monitors...but I think for the used price which averages around $600, the VR1s are a no brainer.  You'll have a hard time finding another speaker that will best them in that price range.  In fact, I dont think you can find anything that will best them in that price range.

the larger Epos monitors are also nice sounding.  I've got a pair of M12.2's and am very pleased w/them.

[thegreatgumbino]

The size of the VR-1's is a plus, especially if they sound as good as I've read.  There are a couple used pairs on Agon for ~$500.  I like the fact that they are small & I know the wife would like that.  Are these going to be powerful enough for the big room?

There's a seller with refurbished 3000es on Ebay for $400 BIN, but I'm concerned about the warranty.  I've got a question into the seller about that.  The same seller has refurbished 5000es for $519 BIN.  Is the additional 20W worth the $100? 

As for source, I'd rather not incorporate another pc in the living room.  That would definitely be a no-no with the wife.  The Squeezebox 3 is going for about $300 on Ebay, and I could send a wireless signal to the Sony.  I've read really good things about the SD SB3's.

VR-1 (shipped)     $550
3000es (shipped) $450
SD SB3           $300
Total              $1,300

I could add in a cd/dvd player at a later time.  Anyone see anything wrong with this setup?

[bgalizio]

The size of the VR-1's is a plus, especially if they sound as good as I've read.  There are a couple used pairs on Agon for ~$500.  I like the fact that they are small & I know the wife would like that.  Are these going to be powerful enough for the big room?

There's a seller with refurbished 3000es on Ebay for $400 BIN, but I'm concerned about the warranty.  I've got a question into the seller about that.  The same seller has refurbished 5000es for $519 BIN.  Is the additional 20W worth the $100? 

As for source, I'd rather not incorporate another pc in the living room.  That would definitely be a no-no with the wife.  The Squeezebox 3 is going for about $300 on Ebay, and I could send a wireless signal to the Sony.  I've read really good things about the SD SB3's.

VR-1 (shipped)     $550
3000es (shipped) $450
SD SB3           $300
Total              $1,300

I could add in a cd/dvd player at a later time.  Anyone see anything wrong with this setup?

SB3 is only $300 direct as well (wireless). Don't need to go through eBay for that one.

[Nick's Picks]

looks good.
dont forget the price of speaker cable though...

[thegreatgumbino]

SB3 is only $300 direct as well (wireless). Don't need to go through eBay for that one.

I saw that, but the ebay items are $290 with free shipping.  They are $299 direct plus shipping, IIRC.

looks good.
dont forget the price of speaker cable though...

I was planning on making my own and figured a little in for that.  Don't know what I would need yet, but I'll figure that out.

[Nick's Picks]

yup, diy is a great route.  the HD extention cord cable would be a good place to start.

[cshepherd]

An alternative amp / speaker setup would be the Almarro A205a 5w SET tube amp ($800) paired with Rega's R1 stand mounts ($545/pair).  I've never heard the VR1's, but the Sony digital amp won't hold a candle to the Almarro in terms of sound quality.  The Almarro is built by hand in Japan with point-to-point wiring and has two inputs and a headphone jack off of the speaker outputs (not a crappy headphone amp).  Rega speakers are made in England and designed to be played close to the wall (less than 12").  The Almarro/R1 is a music making system.  It may not have the connectivity of the Sony, but for sound, there's no comparison.

Chris

[BC]

at your starting point, if I were you I would wait on the squeezebox unless you are really dead-set on it, and put the $$ towards getting the best speakers you can afford. If the room is big, just a 2 way monitor might not give you the kick you are looking for, especially if you want a "live show listening experience" and a floorstanding model might be more satisfying.

Those B&W's dre pointed out look sweet, other brands to consider that would be a good value in that price range are Paradigm, Klipsch, Energy, PSB, and Infinity (just to scratch the surface). Lots of models to choose from, that hopefully would pass the wife's approval factor.

happy shopping! Upgrading your playback is the best thing you can do to enjoy your music at home! You will be amazed how much better recordings sound with some decent speakers.
 
Peace,
Ben

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

My only suggestions is to do a little shopping on Audiogon.  Its the ebay or craigslist of HiFi equipment. 

You can search by zipcode so you can find something in your area.  That also means you get to check it out first before buying...

Craigs List works well too, I found a nice subwoofer on there last year.  Some guy had upgraded and wanted to get rid of his older (but still kick ass) sub...

Good luck!

Terry

[thegreatgumbino]

at your starting point, if I were you I would wait on the squeezebox unless you are really dead-set on it, and put the $$ towards getting the best speakers you can afford. If the room is big, just a 2 way monitor might not give you the kick you are looking for, especially if you want a "live show listening experience" and a floorstanding model might be more satisfying.

Those B&W's dre pointed out look sweet, other brands to consider that would be a good value in that price range are Paradigm, Klipsch, Energy, PSB, and Infinity (just to scratch the surface). Lots of models to choose from, that hopefully would pass the wife's approval factor.

happy shopping! Upgrading your playback is the best thing you can do to enjoy your music at home! You will be amazed how much better recordings sound with some decent speakers.
 
Peace,
Ben

You're the second person that has suggested fore going the squeezebox.  Another member has suggested putting together a DIY music server in a nicer case to match the Sony 3000 look.  I've not researched this option enough yet to formulate an opinion, but the info given to me is very intriguing.  It seems like this option isn't much more than the SB either. 

Thanks for the ideas guys.  +T's all around.  Any other feedback would be appreciated.  Anyone else running these B&W 603's?  Would a sub be needed with them?

[janka]

You will be amazed how much better recordings sound with some decent speakers.

That's a two way street right there. I've got plenty of recordings I thought were great until quality playback gear revealed the flaws.

[Nick's Picks]

and vise versa...
i've got tons of recordings that I thought were terrible, until played on quality gear

[BC]

Ultimately, I want a system that I can enjoy a live show listening experience in the comfort of my home.  I've thought about picking up a squeezebox as well so that I can playback from the mac and stream internet radio without the mac.  If I can figure out a system that includes a cd/dvd player within budget that would be great, but I guess not a necessity right now.  Any advice would be appreciated.

Just a thought, if you will listen mostly to 2-channel recordings and are not concerned with surround sound, you might get better bang for your buck by going for a two-channel receiver or integrated amp over the Sony. Why pay more for features that you will not be using?

The Outlaw stereo receiver goes for $600 new, and would leave you with ~$7-900 to spend on some nice speakers.
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/rr2150.html

If you are not concerned about FM playback, you might find some decent deals on integrated amps over on audiogon.com or ebay and be able to allocate more $$ to the speakers.

[Nick's Picks]

let us not forget that these Sony's, while chaulk full of bells, whistles and unused channels, KICK ASS at straight two channel.
so you could look at it as spending the money on two good channels and being able to grow into HT from there should you want to.

I've heard great things about the Outlaw as well.

on another front, i'm pretty happy w/the sound of my Music Hall Mambo.  two channel, built in DAC...remote!.  Does the trick and usualy found around $500 used.
nice piece, and certainly more Hi-Fi sounding than the Sony's.

[Invisible]

I personally would highly recommend going with a quality stereo amplifier as opposed to the Sony surround pre/pro. My sincere intentions are not to offend any users of the Sony, but they really sound terrible to my ears. That is what is great about this field; so many varying products and opinions.  They are quite possibly the noisiest digital amplifiers that were on the market. There is a reason they discontinued their digital amplifier, and have changed the model numbers now that they are back to a solid state design.

[Nick's Picks]

i didnt find mine noisey, but some were.
inconsistant, for sure.  I did go through two of them..., as my first one broke.

[thegreatgumbino]

Anyone heard the Infiinty Alpha 50 floor speakers.  Looks like they retailed for about $800 new?  They have the CMMD drivers, which I've read good/decent things about.  They are cheaper used, obviously.  Just curious if anyone has any experience with them.