Topic: XLR in vs. 3.5mm input

[cottle]

So I just bought a Naiant Littlebox pre to run with my PMD-661.  So far I've run the Littlebox into the deck via an RCA>miniplug cable, into the line 2 input of my 661, because that's the cable I have handy.

When I do this, I usually have to crank the gain knobs on the pre almost all the way up, somewhere between 2 o' clock and 4 o' clock.  Even so, I still usually have to crank the record level knob on the deck to 6 or 7 to get a decent level.

I realize I can just boost the volume in post and be fine, but my question is:

Would an RCA>XLR connection provide me with a louder signal?  I understand that it's a more reliable connection, but as far as volume, would it offer any advantages?

If this belongs in one of the other forums, I apologize, but I wasn't sure if it should go in pre's/AD's, cables, or recording gear.

Thanks in advance.

[Todd R]

I don't think your question can be answered in general, only specifically in relation to your recorder.  Looking at the specs on the 661, the mic (XLR) input has a sensitivity of 1.2mV (or -56 dbu), the line 1 (XLR) input has a sensitivity of 0dbu, and the line 2 (1/8") input has a sensitivity of 500mv (or -3.8 dbu).

This means that the line 1 (XLR) input would need a signal 3.8db higher to get the same response on the recorder, so you'd be recording at a lower level if you use the XLR inputs rather than the 1/8" input you're now using.

What are you recording?  The LB set at 2:00 is only giving about 20db of gain.  What level of gain you need depends on your recorder, your mics, and the sound pressure level you're recording, but if it is a loud PA at a concert, I'd guess that something along the lines of 20db should be about right to feed to a typical recorder.   If you're recording your some unamplified acoustic music or your home stereo, you'll need a lot more gain though.

If you're recording quiet sources, you might want to use the XLR inputs set to mic (with phantom off), and probably set the mic attenuation on the 661 to 18db of attenuation.  These settings together with the LB might work better.

[cottle]

Thanks Todd.  So far it's been all loud rock shows that I've taped.  Like I said in my original post, I suppose I can always boost the volume in post as needed...but I just figured I must be missing something if I wasn't getting a level as close to zero dB as possible on my meters.

I'll fool around with it some more next week at Mike Gordon and then again at MMW and see what kind of results I get.

Again, thanks for the input.

[Todd R]

Seems hard to believe you'd want to be going mic-in in those instances if you have the LB.  I wouldn't be afraid to crank the LB though.  As I said, it all depends on the specifics of what you record with and what you record, but in general I'd say 20-35db of gain is about right.  Which is about 2:00 on the LB to fully cranked up to 5:00 (32db).

If you really can't get the levels you need, you might talk with Jon about revising your LB.  I know he can do a 38db version, so if you can get yours changed you'd get another 6db of gain, plus there is the transformer option route that'll give you more gain.

[Todd R]

Some more thoughts:  If you've got a Oade mode 661, you might want to talk to Doug about this.

From the Oade webpage, it looks like he reduces the input sensitivity of the 661 with his warm & concert mods, so that might be part of the issue.  It would also be good to have a conversation with him about what his mod does to the 1/8" input vs the XLR input.  It might be that if you want the full benefit of the Oade mod, you should be using the XLR inputs not the 1/8", but you'd have to check with him on that.

[cottle]

Thanks again.

Yeah, I know that the mod improves the signal path for both the mic and line XLR inputs, but has no affect whatsoever on the 1/8" input.  I was thinking mabye I should be running line-in to the 661, but again, I'm not sure how I came to that conclusion...probably something I'd read somewhere on here about the benefits of the XLR connection over the miniplug.

When you put into terms of dB, then it sounds like I'm right where I need to be.  I was just under the assumption that 11:00 to 12:00 was where I wanted my knobs to be at (not sure where I got that idea) so I figured that if I was having to crank mine up to 4:00 or 5:00, then I was missing something.

I guess as long as I'm pleased with the end result (which I was in the example below) then it doesn't really matter what the means were to the end.

http://www.archive.org/details/tnd2009-08-27.akg461.flac16

^this was probably my best pull yet...first time running the LB.  I ran it again at a festie this past weekend, but so far none of the recordings have jumped out at me as smokers.  Of course, I haven't really done any post-prodcution work on those sets yet either, so maybe I can smooth them out a little.

I guess I'm still green enough that everything is gonna be hit or miss until I figure out what in the hell I'm doing, then figure out how to replicate the positive results.