Topic: What would you do? (editing in post question)

[Tye]

  Being that I am finally in the 24 bit world I was curious to hear others ideas on editing in post.
 
 In my UA5>JB3 days I usually had to add +3-6 db maybe add fades and that was pretty much it.

 What I am looking to do is get the most robust sound for playback,(I want to put the cd in the player and have it a level where I don't have to turn the volume up more than normal to get a full sound)

I find just adding db doesn't alway help the situation at times it hurts the overall sound so the search continues and normalizing it just doesn't work for me

 I am running Wavelab , Audacity, Soundforge and CEP
 
For example listen to this 16bit version >>> http://www.archive.org/details/um2007-02-18.um2007-02-18.flac16
 This show this was my first time running 24bit it is the raw audio I did nothing but dither, track , flac and upload. 
 What would you have done with this audio?
  I can post a sample if someone would be interested in working it and posting here.
          Thanks again for the info guys!

[Shawn]

tye most modern commercial recordings use tons of compression and the result is very loud music without a lot of dynamic range. It's a trade off. Basically the only way to get your recordings aas loud as a comercial recording your probably going to have to use some compression in addition to some gain/normalization is post. This will cost you some dynamic range. If done properly a small amount of compression can improve the quality of some recordings, but if done improperly it will ruin the quality of your recordings.

[Brian Skalinder]

What would you have done with this audio?

Not a thing.  But I'm not a big editing guy - not b/c I think it's a terrible thing, I just don't have the skillset for it (yet?). From the couple tracks I downloaded, doesn't seem like there's a whole lot of dynamic range at a UM show.  As SS suggests, you could always compress/add gain, but I'm not sure there's much to gain in this instance by doing so.  Try it, see what happens.  (Though don't use Audacity's compressor, IME it doesn't work.)

[Tye]

That's the thing, I don't really want to comprimise the sonic value of the recording I just want to increase the level to where I don't have to turn the volume up in my car and home stereo. For example to hear the above show on my car stereo I have to turn it to about 3/4 full volume .
 Your right it may be a trade off, I learned to run as hot as I can even with 24bit to get that "louder" sound from the begining
 I'm wondering if there are any alternatives that are commonly being used by others here to increase the level but not the noise floor.
 Would you have just increased the db on the above UM show yourself Shawn?

[Tye]

What would you have done with this audio?

Not a thing.  But I'm not a big editing guy - not b/c I think it's a terrible thing, I just don't have the skillset for it (yet?). From the couple tracks I downloaded, doesn't seem like there's a whole lot of dynamic range at a UM show.  As SS suggests, you could always compress/add gain, but I'm not sure there's much to gain in this instance by doing so.  Try it, see what happens.  (Though don't use Audacity's compressor, IME it doesn't work.)

 Brian I am in the same boat as you I have the programs but as I said above I usually just added some gain and that was it.  I really want to avoid compression at all costs I feel that actually mucks up the sound to my ears. If that is my only option than I will be glad to turn the volume up in trade.
 I am running in every config I can think of at shows to acheive a louder recording without distortion lately, maybe I'll find one that works, for me that is the fun of taping.

[Brian Skalinder]

That's the thing, I don't really want to comprimise the sonic value of the recording I just want to increase the level to where I don't have to turn the volume up in my car and home stereo.

Maybe upgrade your car/home stereo?

Would you have just increased the db on the above UM show yourself Shawn?

I know this question's for Shawn, but in my review of a couple tracks, looks to me like the gain is already maxed out.  I tried normalizing one of the files I d/led, and there was no room to normalize, i.e. the peaks were already at 0 dBFS.

[Tye]

That's the thing, I don't really want to comprimise the sonic value of the recording I just want to increase the level to where I don't have to turn the volume up in my car and home stereo.

Maybe upgrade your car/home stereo?

Please don't tell my wife this That is on the slate for next year

Would you have just increased the db on the above UM show yourself Shawn?

I know this question's for Shawn, but in my review of a couple tracks, looks to me like the gain is already maxed out.  I tried normalizing one of the files I d/led, and there was no room to normalize, i.e. the peaks were already at 0 dBFS.
There are so many variables here , the position of my rig , the room ,the sound, you know the usual
It may just come down to the dynamics in this case.

 

[Shawn]

Would you have just increased the db on the above UM show yourself Shawn?

I pretty much normalize all my recordings to 0db. I wouldn't go any higher than that because you'll be clipping. If you don't want to compress it that's as loud as it's going to get.

you could also use a limiter, but I'm fairly sure that isn't a very good solution.

[Tye]

Would you have just increased the db on the above UM show yourself Shawn?

I pretty much normalize all my recordings to 0db. I wouldn't go any higher than that because you'll be clipping. If you don't want to compress it that's as loud as it's going to get.

you could also use a limiter, but I'm fairly sure that isn't a very good solution.

 I may have to start normalizing shows again and see what results I get, but like Brian said this UM show was maxed out already so in cases like this it may just be what I have to work with.
 You can't get blood out of a stone

[Shawn]

You can't get blood out of a stone

exactly.

+T

[ShawnF]

Basically the only way to get your recordings aas loud as a comercial recording

I think you mean ass loud, i.e. Rush, Vapor Trails




As for limiting and compression, Tye, you might experiment with them a bit more.  I haven't listened to your files so I don't have an opinion about either's appropriateness here, but I think with practice and due caution they can be a big help in some situations like this.  Again I don't know if this is true in this case, but many times the loudest peaks are from audience applause, so you can normalize, but you haven't necessarily raised the level of the music to 0 db.  I'm partial to using my Waves L2 plugin for this (plus the IDR dithering) as a last step if it's needed.

You might also try doing some RMS analysis.  Don't know about the others, but in CEP it's Analyze/Statistics.  You might just highlight a representative portion of the show to save scanning time, but see if the average RMS is too low.  Just a thought.