Topic: HT Receiver suggestions

[dmonterisi]

I posted in this thread looking for feedback on the arcam avr350, but i thought i would widen the question.  I am looking to upgrade my receiver in the next couple of months.  The arcam av350 caught my eye for several reasons:

-sound quality.  there are a bunch of highly favorable reviews on this relatively new piece of gear.  it supposedly has excellent sound quality in both 2 channel mode and surround.  2 channel is the most important thing to me, but HT is not far behind.  I watch a lot of HD and DVD stuff.  still i will not get something that does not have outstanding 2 channel capabilities.  the arcam supposedly brought burr brown op-amps down from some of its top of the line separates and utilizes a huge toroidal transformer.

-ability to reassign 2 of the rear surround channels (this is a 7.1 channel amp) to bi-amp the mains.  This is what really sold me on the arcam.  i think this will bring a lot of out my N804's.  the arcam is rated at 100wpc "real world power" which i guess means it could be rated much higher, based on the way other companies rate their amps.  these channels bi-amped would probably be some outstanding power to the 804's.  I don't care about extra DSP modes.  some amps have like 25 DSP modes which i completely do not care about.

-HDMI switching.  though it does not upconvert over HDMI that is not a big deal to me.  my dvd players upconverts 480 sources to 1080i.  i will one day get a HD-dvd or blu-ray player once the format war is decided.  i may have to route that directly to the tv, as i'm not sure the arcam would be able to transmit 1080p over HDMI like the new sony's can.

-space is a concern.  i would consider separates but i don't have a ton of space and may have even less space in the future.  plus, the avr350 is very aesthetically pleasing.  while i wouldn't look at this over sound quality, i find the big hulking boxes like the Sony ES line somewhat repulsive.

-up to 230 milliseconds of audio delay.  my hdtv has some processing lag which can get really annoying.

So i'm looking for HT processing/amplification suggestions in the 2k to 3k range.  I currently have a marantz receiver that is really not getting everything i can out of the 804's, but it is a pretty good receiver overall.  i just could be doing better.

I have N804's as the mains, a B&W center channel whose model number i cannot remember (it's a weak point in my system though, i may upgrade at some point, but amplification is more important), B&W LM-1's as surrounds.  do not currently have a sub, that's also on the list (drooling over the B&W pv-1, but that's likely out of my range).

[pjdavep]

I'd say wait until mid-2007.  In theory, HDMI 1.3 will be prevalent by then and you'll have 7.1 of lossless audio feeding down the HDMI cable with the video.  You HT Rcvr will process that from a digital state, saving you a ton of cables/mess.  The HD/BR war may not be settled by them, but the copyright compliance *should* set you up nicely for the future.

Later,
   pjdavep

[dmonterisi]

yeah, i thought about HDMI 1.3, but I don't think that saving myself from a couple of coax cables is worth waiting.  the avr350 that i'm looking at will pass 1080p over its HDMI switching so i'd be okay there.  but what are you referring to when you say "copyright compliance"?

[scervin]

yeah, i thought about HDMI 1.3, but I don't think that saving myself from a couple of coax cables is worth waiting.  the avr350 that i'm looking at will pass 1080p over its HDMI switching so i'd be okay there.  but what are you referring to when you say "copyright compliance"?

But withthe audio over HDMI you won't be stuck using the DAC in the dvd player.  Personally I'm waiting until the new HDMI spec is released (1.3) and hope that will last.

[dmonterisi]

yeah, i thought about HDMI 1.3, but I don't think that saving myself from a couple of coax cables is worth waiting.  the avr350 that i'm looking at will pass 1080p over its HDMI switching so i'd be okay there.  but what are you referring to when you say "copyright compliance"?

But withthe audio over HDMI you won't be stuck using the DAC in the dvd player.  Personally I'm waiting until the new HDMI spec is released (1.3) and hope that will last.

but i'd still be able to transmit digital audio over coax, which is what i do now.

my concern that i just realized is that hd-dvd and blu-ray could come with newer codecs at some point that may not be able to be transmitted over coax...not sure how likely that is to happen.  it seems like DTS 24/96 should be pretty good (haven't heard it yet) and i don't have any short term intentions to go beyond 5.1, so i'm not sure if it matters or not.

[scervin]

The new audio codecs (DD and DTS) from HD-DVD and Blu-ray can be had over HDMI from what I understand.  Like you said, if you are sticking with 5.1, who cares.

[Invisible]

The new audio codecs (DD and DTS) from HD-DVD and Blu-ray can be had over HDMI from what I understand.  Like you said, if you are sticking with 5.1, who cares.

I believe the new Dolby Digital Plus and DTS HD can only be transmitted over the multi-channel analog outputs with HD and Blu-Ray. Standard Dolby and DTS will still transmit over coax and optical.

[Wes]

Damon,

I've got an AVR-300.  I'm confident that the 350 will be a nice step up from your Marantz. 

The bi-amp feature is awesome.  That is what really sold me on the 300.

As you probably already know, the 300 is basically a 350 without the HDMI switching.  I think the 350 might put out an extra 20W.

The menus on the Arcam are very simple and adding an audio delay will not be a problem.

I use mine to run b&W cdm-9s / cnt / snt's.  The sound is excellent! B&W and Arcam are "like peas and carrots" as Mr. Gump would put it.

Alot of receivers / pres / amps have passed through my system and I will say that the only combo that has outperformed the AVR-300 was a Mark Levinson 330 amp with a Krell Showcase Pre.  I'd say the Arcam gives 90% of the performance that pair did, at 25% the price. 
I've also owned 2 of the Sony digitals.  The Arcam puts them to shame.  [/lurk]

[scervin]

The new audio codecs (DD and DTS) from HD-DVD and Blu-ray can be had over HDMI from what I understand.  Like you said, if you are sticking with 5.1, who cares.

I believe the new Dolby Digital Plus and DTS HD can only be transmitted over the multi-channel analog outputs with HD and Blu-Ray. Standard Dolby and DTS will still transmit over coax and optical.

Yes for now.  They are still trying to figure out how to transmit a digital signal.  HDMI 1.3 may be the solution.  I'd rather have the DAC's in a pre/pro do the DAC work than the new Samsung and Sony units. 

In our house HT/Music is 50-50 and I plan to hold out until there is one HD DVD media.  Will be waiting for a new pre/pro as well. 

[scervin]

Here is a recent press release from AES on DTS++ or DTS-HD.

http://www.dtsonline.com/company/press/press-article.php?ID=1544093630&cID=9&yID=2006

[dmonterisi]

ordered the arcam 350 yesterday.   should be here within a week or so...can't wait.

[Ed.]

ok, time for me to ask some stupid questions...

Let me just make sure I've got this right, the 350 will handle 1080p over hdmi and its currently in the works that audio, including the new DTS will be carried over hdmi 1.3?  However, the 350 may not be able to do audio over hdmi as it doesn't have the hdmi 1.3 capabilities since they're not really even sorted out yet?

...just trying to make sense of all this stuff.

[dmonterisi]

the avr350 actually does not extract any audio over HDMI.  other receivers do, but with the arcam units, you have to run coax or optical digital cables.  it does not decode any of the advanced resolution audio that is coming out on hd-dvd and blu-ray (no receiver does yet, to my knowledge, not that it really matters at this point).  if i ever do get a hd-dvd or bluray box, i will just run analog out from that box to the surround inputs for the high-res audio on those boxes.