Topic: Best portable recording device for opera singer and piano

[mezzosarah]

Hi All,

I'm looking for the best portable recording device around the $200 - $400 price point for voice (opera) and piano. It's not for recording my demo but it does have to be good enough quality that I can submit for competitions and other professional endeavors. Most singers I know own Zooms. I have read that the H2n has better internal microphones than the H4N, is that true?

Basically I need a good quality, easy to use device to record with. I do most of my recording in churches and sometimes rehearsal halls, usually large resonant spaces.
I don't need something with a whole lot of bells and whistles or even a whole lot of range. I just need something that will record voice and piano very well.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

[dogmusic]

I think you'd be very happy with the Sony M10.

It doesn't capture a good stereo separation as has often been noted on this forum. But I don't think you need that. As long as the mics are aimed at the voice and you are standing forward of the piano (assuming you are not playing and singing simultaneously), it should be fine for your purposes.

However, given the reverberant nature of the rooms you're recording in, you could look at the Tascam DR100mkii, which gives you the choice of two sets of internal mics: omni (like the M10) and cardioid (which is more directional and may cut out more of the room sound). The battery life isn't as good as the M10.

I'm also assuming you don't want to be bothered with external mics, which is a whole other matter.

[earmonger]

I, too have a Sony PCM-M10. It has omni mics so if you did get one you would want to position it fairly near you, so it is getting your direct sound rather than room reverb. You'd want to put it in the best seat in the house, or the best spot in the room, where it will hear more or less like your ears (with a bit less stereo--though there is some--and a bit less bass).

The PCM-M10 is said to be much better built than the Zooms.  However, if you are in a very echoey room, cardioid (directional) mics like the ones on the Zoom might be better for your purposes, so your no doubt lovely voice is not swallowed in reverb.

What mezzosarah really needs is someone who has done a serious comparison of built-in mics on these units. Can anyone step up?

[Gutbucket]

Sony gets more love than Zoom around here for a few good reasons: The Sonys are really well built and engineered and are a better fit for most of the kind of recording people here are doing- which is using external microphones on a stand.  However for your use, as a simple recording machine without using external microphones I think something like the H4n is probably a better choice.  I've heard some very nice sounding band rehersal type recordings made with one that suprised me with the quality.  The internal mics are directional and are setup for a decent stereo image.  Both machines are easy to use, but I think you are more likely to get good sounding results without a lot of fuss with the Zoom for the way you plan to use it. 

The room and the placement of the recorder, yourself and the piano is all important and will make a big difference in the quality of the recording regardless of what you use.  Get a little photo tripod for table top use or a small folding light-stand like a Manfrotto 001B or whatever the replacement is- http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/612771-REG/Manfrotto_5001B_5001B_Nano_Black_Light.html 

I'd suggest starting by standing in the bend of the piano (piano behind you) and placing the recorder on it's stand 4' or so in front of you- you'll need to determine what distance works best.  Make a few test recordings with the recorder at different distances away.  Good sounding rooms (generally larger ones) will allow you to place the recorder farther away for a more natural and reverberant sound without getting echoy.  Very small rooms may require you to get the recorder closer for a drier sound.  Height also makes a difference, often more in the timbre of both the voice and piano, so experiment a bit with that too.  Announce the distance and height at the start of each short test recording so you can remember which clip  is what.  Listen to decide what sounds best and optimize things from there.  Placement of the microphones is the most important aspect of recording and will make a far bigger difference than the recorder or even the particular microphones used. 

[aaronji]

I thought the internals on the H2 I owned were pretty good, and I understand the H2n is better.  I don't know how well it would work, but you could record four channel with it and put piano on one side and vocals on the other...

The new Olympus LS-100 might be worth a look too.  I don't know anyone who has tried one yet, but Olympus claims it has the best internals in it's class and it has some other cool features a musician might appreciate.

I, too have a Sony PCM-M10. It has omni mics so if you did get one you would want to position it fairly near you, so it is getting your direct sound rather than room reverb. You'd want to put it in the best seat in the house, or the best spot in the room, where it will hear more or less like your ears (with a bit less stereo--though there is some--and a bit less bass).

Sorry to keep on you about this, but I feel it is pretty misleading to say that omnis "hear" like ears (even with the qualifiers).  No less misleading than saying "cardioids hear more or less like your ears".  Directionality for hearing is highly frequency dependent.  The attached shows a polar plot for a (right) ear.  It would be nicer if it had more frequencies plotted, but it gives a pretty good idea...Very different from either an omni or a cardioid, although maybe a little similar to a wide card.  Also, ears have a steep roll-off at both the low and high ends (the omnis will get much more bass than your ears) and a pronounced "presence bump" in the range of most speech.

Really, the physiology of hearing is way more complicated than any mic I know off.  Ears even have features like dynamic variable tension diaphragms (there is muscle that can increase eardrum tension, primarily to dampen sounds like chewing)...

[Gutbucket]

Good point.

It has omni mics so if you did get one you would want to position it fairly near you, to a position where there is relatively more direct sound and less indirect room sound* You'd probably want to put it even closer than the best seat in the house, or the best sounding spot in the room, since it doesn't "hear" exactly like your ears (with a bit less stereo--though there is some--and a bit less bass).

^^^
My editing in bold.    It's true that in some cases omnis can sound closer to the timbre balance of human hearing than directional mics- a complex frequency balance thing, yet human hearing is far more apt at ignoring reverberance and teasing out direct signal at a particular recording position than what you'll generally hear from a stereo recording made with omnis at the same position.

*A common term used for describing this balance is the direct/reverberat ratio.  Another you may come across is critical distance, which is the position at which the level of direct sound is equal to that of the reverberant sound, and is often close to the optimal mic'ing distance.  That distance varies with the size of the room and to a lesser extent with it's reflectivity (highly reverberat spaces have smaller critical distances than absorbant spaces). It's usually far closer than you'd imagine.

[earmonger]

There is no doubt that ears are pretty amazing devices.

I defer to the more technologically informed folks here. I have done a limited amount of recording with cardioids and I have to say I dislike what seems to me like an unnatural, "backless" sound through headphones.

As I said before, what mezzosarah needs is an internal mic comparison, because everything that is recording in .wav nowadays will be hi-fi---that is, hi-fi recording of what the mics pick up. How are the mics?

[flintstone]

You might want to check with Wingfield Audio near Boston.  Stephanie Wingfield is a cellist who has a business selling hand-held recorders to professional musicians.  She could provide a recommendation for your particular situation.  http://www.wingfieldaudio.com