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Offline Mike Sarnovsky

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722 recording settings question
« on: December 08, 2005, 06:51:21 PM »
Guys,

I'm just reading the manuals to the 722 I got a couple days ago and I wanted to survey those of you who run mics -> 722, or at least have done this before.  My question is what are the settings that you use?  I was going to run the pre-limiter and run the tapes hotter than balls (advice from a friend).  He also suggested cutting my file size to 2 GB.  What advantage would this give me since the 722 will roll over seemlessly into a new file? 

Basically I'm thinking, mic pre limiter, run the tapes hot, and let it rip.  Any other suggestions or first/second time use lessons learned?  Thanks. 
Mics:  Neumann SKM-140, Neumann SKM-184
Pres:  Lunatec V3, Sound Devices MP-2
A/D:  Oade Mod Sony SBM-1
Recorder:  Sound Devices 722, Nomad JB3

RebelRebel

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Re: 722 recording settings question
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2005, 07:07:46 PM »
Here's a few things that I'd suggest...(from Jason Reiser)

- Rec: Pre-Roll Time - Use it!  Anything in the 2-4 second range will be super helpful.  This is basically a constantly running record buffer that will start recording X seconds *before* you press the record button.  When you've got your gear all set up and are waiting for the band to come on stage, and get distracted by a cutie asking if she can get a copy of your tape, you've still got a few seconds to reach down and start recording without missing a thing.  Easily one of the coolest features of the 7 series.

- Input: Routing - default would be 1 > A / 2 > B for stereo recording.  That will put the Left channel on the top meter, Right on the bottom.  Not so much a suggestion since it's what we would all do, but this was a little confusing to me at first.

- Mic Input 1/2: Low Cut & Low Cut Freq - Note that these ONLY apply when running analog MIC input, not LINE.

- Mic Input 1/2: Gain Range - maybe ask others which setting they're using for particular mics.  I ran my 722 at home next to decks I'm more familiar with, being fed with a line-out from a CD player, just to get a feeling for what things would look like in the field.  And using a live recording of yours is a good way to get a feel for things beforehand.

Input 1,2: Linking, MS: If you run mainly stereo (other than mid-side), the "Linked 1/2" setting is ideal.  Pot #1 becomes level control for the channel pair, and Pot #2 is a left/right balance control.  This is perfect for when you just want to bring the overall levels up or down during a show but trust your L/R setup based on a static mic and room.

Line Input 1,2: Gain Control & Line Input 1/2: Gain - Ignore these.  The first will be at "Use front panel knobs" and then the second has no meaning based on that.  It gives you an option to set the gains from the menu rather than the front pots which is interesting but confusing and, for me, just silly.

Meter: Ballistics -peak and VU

Meter: Peak Threshold - This one's a little confusing.  Basically you can adjust the level where the far right set of lights on the meter will come on.  By default it's 0dBFS but you can set it to -1, -2, -3, etc.  Personally I would find either 0 or -1 to be logical.

Meter: Stealth Mode - Poorly named feature... basically when it's on, the LEDs all turn on or off with the backlight.  When off, the backlight functions independently and the meters are always running.  Note that you can DIM the LEDs in what appear to be around 30 brightness steps by holding down the LCD backlight button and turning the multifunction dial.  I believe the default is around 10 steps up from the dimmest.

HP: Encoder Switch Function - The "Select Favorite Mode" is a neat way to monitor something other than just the L/R source while recording.  Depending on your preference, you can quickly change to a confidence monitoring (tracks vs. inputs), or individual inputs or tracks "Solo" style.  Probably great when troubleshooting something like a M-S setup.

Check that your firmware version is current

- Jason
« Last Edit: December 08, 2005, 07:09:45 PM by Teddy »

Offline fozzy

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Re: 722 recording settings question
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2005, 07:11:19 PM »
all good advice above.

I suggest not using the limiter, especially if you are usinf the low cut filter.  It needs some work.

MK 4V > KCY 250/5 Ig (KS 10I)  > VST62IUg > 722

Offline CQBert

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Re: 722 recording settings question
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2005, 07:12:21 PM »
I ran TL's / Schoeps mk21/mk8 > VMS / U89's all into 722 and ran the limiter liberally as I got used to the machine...

My thoughts are like this...  I wanted to dial the recording in as close to peaking as possible and only use the limiter as a catch all for a hard drum hit or a wierd clap or whistle and keep it from distorting..

If I remember correctly the limiter kicks in at -3 and will keep things from hitting 0 and distorting...  The hotter you run this the more work the limiter would have to do and thus compress your recording dynamics...  your wave form would be a very large block if you ran solid consistently at -3, -2, -1 with not dynamics...

IMO - know the room, the band and run it like you would run without a limiter... and let it bail you out of a jam rather than relying on it to make a recording sound good...

Finally - if you plan to run hot the whole show... try it at home first, test a few times and compare a regular level to that of a super hot attempt using a limiter...

My money is on normal runnig..

2 cents...

CQbert
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Offline Mike Sarnovsky

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Re: 722 recording settings question
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2005, 07:36:42 PM »
Thanks +t
Mics:  Neumann SKM-140, Neumann SKM-184
Pres:  Lunatec V3, Sound Devices MP-2
A/D:  Oade Mod Sony SBM-1
Recorder:  Sound Devices 722, Nomad JB3

Offline MattD

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Re: 722 recording settings question
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2005, 07:39:13 PM »
If I remember correctly the limiter kicks in at -3 and will keep things from hitting 0 and distorting

It kicks in at -6. I think you can still clip the unit with a very fast transient (single snare hit, for example), but I don't hear any distortion when that happens. Since I run on stage a lot, the limiter has been a wonderful tool to have. I wouldn't recommend intentionally running hot when you have the limiter engaged. If I see that light (next to the headphones signal light) come on too often, I turn things down.
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Offline nickgregory

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Re: 722 recording settings question
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2005, 07:39:43 PM »
the 2Gb split is because most SW cannot handle larger files without choking on them...definitely worth chopping there...

Offline nickgregory

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Re: 722 recording settings question
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2005, 07:41:04 PM »
If I remember correctly the limiter kicks in at -3 and will keep things from hitting 0 and distorting

It kicks in at -6. I think you can still clip the unit with a very fast transient (single snare hit, for example), but I don't hear any distortion when that happens. Since I run on stage a lot, the limiter has been a wonderful tool to have.

the meters are also deceiving...you will see the lights on the lift flash uncontrollably (that is -3 I believe), but you arent clipping.  I have found that I try to top out around there, which gives me a little headroom, and even when I get a surprising clip, they have not been audible...

Offline ianstone

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Re: 722 recording settings question
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2005, 08:22:46 PM »
I ran TL's / Schoeps mk21/mk8 > VMS / U89's all into 722 and ran the limiter liberally as I got used to the machine...

My thoughts are like this...  I wanted to dial the recording in as close to peaking as possible and only use the limiter as a catch all for a hard drum hit or a wierd clap or whistle and keep it from distorting..

If I remember correctly the limiter kicks in at -3 and will keep things from hitting 0 and distorting...  The hotter you run this the more work the limiter would have to do and thus compress your recording dynamics...  your wave form would be a very large block if you ran solid consistently at -3, -2, -1 with not dynamics...

IMO - know the room, the band and run it like you would run without a limiter... and let it bail you out of a jam rather than relying on it to make a recording sound good...

Finally - if you plan to run hot the whole show... try it at home first, test a few times and compare a regular level to that of a super hot attempt using a limiter...

My money is on normal runnig..

2 cents...

CQbert

that is exactly how I use the limiter...
Microphones:
CCM4v (pair)
mk6 (pair) and mk41 (pair) with kc5's & cmc6's
mk21 (1) for those M/S situations

Preamps:
Sonosax SX-M2

Recorders:
Sound Devices 722
Edirol R-01

My Recordings on archive http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=%22ian%20stone%22

Offline it-goes-to-eleven

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Re: 722 recording settings question
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2005, 08:56:13 PM »
If I remember correctly the limiter kicks in at -3 and will keep things from hitting 0 and distorting...

As QC mentioned, it starts at -6 (page 15). I found it Very useful to feed my 722 music via line in and listen to the limiter with some cans.  The limiter starts to clamp really hard at around -3.

I only use the limiter for low-pro recording. It is especially nice if the little old lady right next to you is a super hard clapper. I try and keep the music out of the limiter to avoid losing dynamic range. The last four lights are normally -12, -8, -4, 0. I hope to not see -4 much at all. Otherwise, I don't run it (though might for on-stage).

I suggest not using the limiter, especially if you are usinf the low cut filter.  It needs some work.

I feel the opposite due to the BRO bug. If you clip with the bass roll off engaged, the distortion is terrible. It also lasts a long time - even if the clip was only brief.  So if you're using the BRO, I think you really must use the limiter.  The BRO bug ruined a couple of nice recordings.

What have you noticed about the limiter?

Offline Mike Sarnovsky

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Re: 722 recording settings question
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2005, 09:03:04 PM »
Have any of you gone into a show intending to run mic in but it was so damn loud (ie arena where you are setup close) and had to switch over to line in?  I'm thinking from some in home tests that I can probably get by with mic in, but a double check here can't hurt.  Thanks for the great answers thus far!
Mics:  Neumann SKM-140, Neumann SKM-184
Pres:  Lunatec V3, Sound Devices MP-2
A/D:  Oade Mod Sony SBM-1
Recorder:  Sound Devices 722, Nomad JB3

Offline nickgregory

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Re: 722 recording settings question
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2005, 09:05:08 PM »
Have any of you gone into a show intending to run mic in but it was so damn loud (ie arena where you are setup close) and had to switch over to line in?  I'm thinking from some in home tests that I can probably get by with mic in, but a double check here can't hurt.  Thanks for the great answers thus far!

never...I have run mic in, on the low gain setting for every show except for an acoustic one, where i had to run the gain at normal

Offline fozzy

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Re: 722 recording settings question
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2005, 09:06:29 PM »
If I remember correctly the limiter kicks in at -3 and will keep things from hitting 0 and distorting...

As QC mentioned, it starts at -6 (page 15). I found it Very useful to feed my 722 music via line in and listen to the limiter with some cans.  The limiter starts to clamp really hard at around -3.

I only use the limiter for low-pro recording. It is especially nice if the little old lady right next to you is a super hard clapper. I try and keep the music out of the limiter to avoid losing dynamic range. The last four lights are normally -12, -8, -4, 0. I hope to not see -4 much at all. Otherwise, I don't run it (though might for on-stage).

I suggest not using the limiter, especially if you are usinf the low cut filter.  It needs some work.

I feel the opposite due to the BRO bug. If you clip with the bass roll off engaged, the distortion is terrible. It also lasts a long time - even if the clip was only brief.  So if you're using the BRO, I think you really must use the limiter.  The BRO bug ruined a couple of nice recordings.

What have you noticed about the limiter?


The info i interpreted w/ Low cut & limiter engaged was if you hit or got near 0db the distortion was bad digi stuff.  I don't use the limiter at all and always make sure I am running in the red.  The only onstage stuff I do is bluegrass which is fairly consistant.
MK 4V > KCY 250/5 Ig (KS 10I)  > VST62IUg > 722

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Re: 722 recording settings question
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2005, 10:13:23 PM »
This is some great info. Can't wait for mine to get here next week!  8)
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Offline scb

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Re: 722 recording settings question
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2005, 11:14:15 PM »
I was going to run the pre-limiter and run the tapes hotter than balls (advice from a friend). 


noooooooooooo.  i don't think you'll like that. 

 

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