Topic: 722: How to run hot as balls?

[Mike Sarnovsky]

I'm running km-184 -> 722 directly. 

Ok, so I've used the 722 for a good handful of shows now.  I need some help running it HOTTER.  Back in the day when I ran the mp-2 -> mod-sbm1 combo, I could crank it up so hot, it was awesome and no clipping either. 

Now with the 722 (no limiter engaged) I find that I have to run quieter.  Then I'm relying on normalization in Wavelab.  I would just assume somehow run it hotter than balls if possible, but of course the clips are the most horrific sounding clips on the planet.

Any suggestions on settings or anything so that I can run this thing hotter than balls BUT not have to babysit the thing during the show?  I want to set it and forget it for the most part if possible.  Thanks!

[F.O.Bean]

i have my 0db light set to -3db for a little headroom and try to peak out at the second to last light before the 0db light, at allgood i ran a little quiet and had to add about 5db of gain, still better than having horrific clips tho

what firmware do you have upgrade to 1.74 or 1.79, they clipping is supposed to be not as nasty as older firmwares FWIW, tho i havent tested and dont plan to

[kgreener]

assuming you're going mic-in, what is your gain range set at, normal or low?  if you're at normal, maybe set it to low, then you might be able to ride the gain hotter that way...

[ts]

assuming you're going mic-in, what is your gain range set at, normal or low?  if you're at normal, maybe set it to low, then you might be able to ride the gain hotter that way...

Have done that with my AKG's and it works well. Also tried line in/phantom on and was able to increase gain quite a bit. At very close range something must be done, at least with AKG's. Going mic in and nothing else is not good. Limiter is also not a good idea at loud shows. I learned that the hard way.

[cshepherd]

Bean's pretty much right on this one   .  I run 184s>722 with no limiter as well.  Peaking out at the -4db light is plenty (some would say overkill but that's another discussion).  Sooner or later, the soundman will lean on the faders and you'll appreciate the extra headroom.  It never fails. 

Chris

[kgreener]

I'm running km-184 -> 722 directly. 
Ok, so I've used the 722 for a good handful of shows now.  I need some help running it HOTTER.  Back in the day when I ran the mp-2 -> mod-sbm1 combo, I could crank it up so hot, it was awesome and no clipping either. 
Now with the 722 (no limiter engaged) I find that I have to run quieter.  Then I'm relying on normalization in Wavelab.  I would just assume somehow run it hotter than balls if possible, but of course the clips are the most horrific sounding clips on the planet.
Any suggestions on settings or anything so that I can run this thing hotter than balls BUT not have to babysit the thing during the show?  I want to set it and forget it for the most part if possible.  Thanks!

btw, are you running 16 or 24-bit?

[CQBert]

Paging Teddy... he had great comments on 24bit recording the other day.

He specifically addressed the lack of need to run super hot... 

I will let him elaborate.

CQBert

[JasonR]

That's probably the biggest advantage of 24-bit - you can run much lower levels and not have it result in a far inferior recording as in the 16-bit world.  It sure makes stealthing easy - just set 'em and forget 'em.

- Jason

[nickgregory]

everyone is dead on...no need to run extremely hot.  I have mine set to low gain and pop the -3 light occassionally...I am usually surprised at how often that gets me to 0 db peak when I analyze later

[terrapinj]

everyone is dead on...no need to run extremely hot.  I have mine set to low gain and pop the -3 light occassionally...I am usually surprised at how often that gets me to 0 db peak when I analyze later

same here, i have been surprised how close i've come to clipping a couple times trying to hit that -3 light. then i realized i am taking stupid risks trying to get a couple more db. i run it now so the 2nd set of red lights (-6db) hits on the loud peaks. it only takes a few minutes to normalize and i havent been able to notice any benefits of running super hot with 24bit

[F.O.Bean]

everyone is dead on...no need to run extremely hot.  I have mine set to low gain and pop the -3 light occassionally...I am usually surprised at how often that gets me to 0 db peak when I analyze later

i noticed this too, even w/ my 0db light set for -3db, i analyze later and the peaks are at -2db which is perfect IMO, but they dont even hit my zero light set at -3db db and i still get peaks of -2db, weird, so i have been playing it safe, and at allgood i ran at lower levels, peaking at -5db or -6db, and i just added +5db of gain in wavelab, sounds fine and i havent noticed any weird artifacts or anything

[CQBert]

Run an experiment if you choose...

Just a 30 second spot.... one hot and one down -10 or so...  Then Normalize> very little difference.  Not saying run consistently that low but don't push if you do not know the room or the music, much rather be a little low than clip.

No need to try to be perfect... get close - fix it in post.

My .02

CQBert

[F.O.Bean]

im gonna try sometime soon to push the v3 at -0db and see what happens, i see merin do it all the time, wether in 16 or 24-bit on the v3, you can push 0db easily, but when going into the 722 its much pickier and clips

isnt the BAD clipping issue resolved inthe 1.74 firmware? has anyone actually pushed it to 0db consistently? did it sound horrible and clip or did it hit gracefully like the v3 and love it?

i may have to run an experiment tomorrow

[mhibbs]

everyone is dead on...no need to run extremely hot.  I have mine set to low gain and pop the -3 light occassionally...I am usually surprised at how often that gets me to 0 db peak when I analyze later

I'm doing the same.  Setting it where I only get a consistant pop of the -3 lights on the left when it's loud and the kick drum hits.  I've been through that nasty clip behavior too...it's the firmware.  1.74 has fixed it for me.

mitch

[mhibbs]

im gonna try sometime soon to push the v3 at -0db and see what happens, i see merin do it all the time, wether in 16 or 24-bit on the v3, you can push 0db easily, but when going into the 722 its much pickier and clips

isnt the BAD clipping issue resolved inthe 1.74 firmware? has anyone actually pushed it to 0db consistently? did it sound horrible and clip or did it hit gracefully like the v3 and love it?

i may have to run an experiment tomorrow

I've clipped the shit out of a recording on 1.74 (on accident) and it's just squares it off and sounds like you'd expect.  Nothing out of the ordinary.  The last version I ran prior to 1.74 was 1.57 and it did the full scale waveform reverse that sounds like a jackhammer.  I posted some pics in the forum a while back...as have some others.  SD has acknowledged and fixed the issue.  I'd upgrade for sure if you're anywhere near the release where they introduced the bug.  I know I didn't have the issue in 1.42...not sure about 1.46, but 1.57 was definitely a nightmare.