Topic: What to use for recording a concert?

[Cryo]

Hi,

I'm new here and saw that this part was newbie friendly.
Can you give me some advice on what to use to record a concert in good quality?
There's so much out there and I'm not a specialist in that area...

Is a 200$ budget realistic?

Thanks!

[datbrad]

Hi,

I'm new here and saw that this part was newbie friendly.
Can you give me some advice on what to use to record a concert in good quality?
There's so much out there and I'm not a specialist in that area...

Is a 200$ budget realistic?

Thanks!

3 questions:

Is this going to be a concert you can openly record?

Is this concert a loud rock show, or something not as loud such as classical or accoustic?

You mentioned a $200 figure, but what is your absolute highest dollar amount that you are able to invest?

[Cryo]

- Talking about concerts in arena's or small venues from any artist.
- A loud rock show: from the Killers, Depeche mode to Melody Gardot, Erykah Badu... (loud sound every time)
- Absolute highest: 300$. It doesn't need to be audiophile quality.

Thanks for your reply

[rhinowing]

- Talking about concerts in arena's or small venues from any artist.
- A loud rock show: from the Killers, Depeche mode to Melody Gardot, Erykah Badu... (loud sound every time)
- Absolute highest: 300$. It doesn't need to be audiophile quality.

Thanks for your reply

you'll need three things:
-recorder
-mics
-battery box (powers the mics, essential for loud shows)
you'd probably want to get the mics and box from the same place

I would recommend:
-used iRiver recorder (can be gotten for $100 or around there if you look around)

-either Church Audio (he is a member here, other people will give you more information, but I think you can get mics + box for under $200)
-or Sound Pros BMC-2 mics and Sound Pros SPSB-10 battery box which you can get for like $125 together. should put you right between $200 and $300

the Church Audio probably has a bit better sound quality, while the Sound Pros is smaller and cheaper.

also, if you're going to record in a big place like an arena, you'd want to get Cardiod mics (pick up sound from wherever you point them at), whereas you want Omni mics (pick up sound in all directions) for a smaller place

[setboy]

$300 will be pushing it. Best bet is to look for stuff in the yard sale on this site.

Most likely you will need mics > battery box > cheap recorder.

 church audio mics if you can find them used are a good bet.

[admkrk]

whereas you want Omni mics (pick up sound in all directions) for a smaller place

i strongly disagree with this part. unless you set up in the back of the room, you're even more likely to pick up a larger amount of garbage than at a large venue. in stealth situations it might be different, but open, i wouldn't use omnis indoors except for special situations.

[Cryo]

Thanks for your replies.
I'll look into it.

Btw, I also read some things about the Zoom H2/H4. What about that?

[su6oxone]

Btw, I also read some things about the Zoom H2/H4. What about that?

If you want to keep things simple, you could just get a Zoom H2 and record with the internal mics, many people out there seem to like that approach and it gets reasonable results if you're not too serious about taping yet and just want to try it out.  Don't know much about the H4 but I think it is a larger, phantom power supplying recorder that isn't too popular.

[rhinowing]

whereas you want Omni mics (pick up sound in all directions) for a smaller place

i strongly disagree with this part. unless you set up in the back of the room, you're even more likely to pick up a larger amount of garbage than at a large venue. in stealth situations it might be different, but open, i wouldn't use omnis indoors except for special situations.

I was basing it on the fact that all the artists he listed were stealth jobs/my own experience as a stealth taper

[admkrk]

whereas you want Omni mics (pick up sound in all directions) for a smaller place

i strongly disagree with this part. unless you set up in the back of the room, you're even more likely to pick up a larger amount of garbage than at a large venue. in stealth situations it might be different, but open, i wouldn't use omnis indoors except for special situations.

I was basing it on the fact that all the artists he listed were stealth jobs/my own experience as a stealth taper

no problems. i only open tape and don't know any of those bands, that's why i added the caveat.

[setboy]

[quote author=admkrk link=topic=129145.msg1704995#msg1704995
i strongly disagree with this part. unless you set up in the back of the room, you're even more likely to pick up a larger amount of garbage than at a large venue. in stealth situations it might be different, but open, i wouldn't use omnis indoors except for special situations.
[/quote]

And i strongly disagree with you on that  

[admkrk]

[quote author=admkrk link=topic=129145.msg1704995#msg1704995
i strongly disagree with this part. unless you set up in the back of the room, you're even more likely to pick up a larger amount of garbage than at a large venue. in stealth situations it might be different, but open, i wouldn't use omnis indoors except for special situations.

And i strongly disagree with you on that
[/quote]

that's what makes this game so much fun.

ime, almost every time i've used omnis i ended up wishing i hadn't. the one time it worked, indoors, i was effectually at the back of the room. 2 stages facing each other with me in the middle. no time to spin the mics around so there was little choice.     

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

I'll try to get as close to $300 as I can get. Ideally I would have a pre-amp between the mics and recorder, but since you have a price limit you'll have to add that later.

You could skip the Omni caps. I happen to like Omni's for stealth recording because you can move your head a little bit and not have to worry about phasing.

This rig can produce very nice recordings (at least for $300). The DR-07 will be handy for stealth since you can run it 24 bit, and not have to worry about setting the levels too low.

Looks like $332 with both caps or just a hair under $300 with just the cards.


MICS: Church Audio CA-11 ($160 with Card and Omni caps)
available here: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=96900.0

BATTERY BOX: Chuch Audio CA-UBB ($29)
available here: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=119448.0

RECORDER: Tascam DR-07 ($143 at B+H)
available here: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/599284-REG/Tascam_DR_07_DR_07_Portable_Digital_Audio.html

[Belexes]

Omnis give me headaches indoors unless the "room" sounds good and in stealth situations, there are no chatty people near me.  I lean on cards to help minimize these issues.  I love omnis outdoors in an open air venue (no roof).

[setboy]

that's what makes this game so much fun.

It sure is 

[Giant_Rick]

Everybody will disagree for sure.. but a Hi-MD + mikes would be nice.
I have a Sony NH900 and a Sony DS70P, paid 160€ (mint condition + other things..) this summer, and I recorded Springsteen in a stadium from the pit area. It came out nice, beside some songs were I sang all the time. PM me if you want an exampe to listen how it sounds.

In my opinion, for the beginning, a Hi-MD recorder is nice; if you look on eBay you can find some Sony NH700 for less than 100$. You can record up to 94 min. in WAV quality, up to 7 hours @ 256kbps, which it's a restpectable quality. Let your ears judge and not the others' comments.
For the mikes.. the Sony DS70P is obiviously not a nice deal if you look at Church's products.. I have never tried any of these, but according to hours of listening they are worth every cent of their price. A nice set of CA11 costs about 120$, add 30$ for the battery box (as the mikes and condenser mikes and they work with electric power, which is given by the battery box.. for almost every Sony mikes of the ECM series the power is given by the mic in of Sony MDs or DATs).

By the way the more I tape the more I understand that you can make a great recording (..and I mean a very great one) even with a  bad equipment, if you know how to do your job.

[darktrain]

Everybody will disagree for sure.. but a Hi-MD + mikes would be nice.
I have a Sony NH900 and a Sony DS70P, paid 160€ (mint condition + other things..) this summer, and I recorded Springsteen in a stadium from the pit area. It came out nice, beside some songs were I sang all the time. PM me if you want an exampe to listen how it sounds.

In my opinion, for the beginning, a Hi-MD recorder is nice; if you look on eBay you can find some Sony NH700 for less than 100$. You can record up to 94 min. in WAV quality, up to 7 hours @ 256kbps, which it's a restpectable quality. Let your ears judge and not the others' comments.
For the mikes.. the Sony DS70P is obiviously not a nice deal if you look at Church's products.. I have never tried any of these, but according to hours of listening they are worth every cent of their price. A nice set of CA11 costs about 120$, add 30$ for the battery box (as the mikes and condenser mikes and they work with electric power, which is given by the battery box.. for almost every Sony mikes of the ECM series the power is given by the mic in of Sony MDs or DATs).

By the way the more I tape the more I understand that you can make a great recording (..and I mean a very great one) even with a  bad equipment, if you know how to do your job.

That mic might be alright sometimes but it will absolutely clip in a really loud rock/metal show unless you are in the back of the venue maybe, trust me been there done that with that mic

[Giant_Rick]

That mic might be alright sometimes but it will absolutely clip in a really loud rock/metal show unless you are in the back of the venue maybe, trust me been there done that with that mic

I don't want to argue, but what if you use a battery box? It should raise your limit of maximum sound pressure.. you can also set the levels (a bad thing is that, on the NH900, you have to press ''pause'' to set the levels!).

[darktrain]

That mic might be alright sometimes but it will absolutely clip in a really loud rock/metal show unless you are in the back of the venue maybe, trust me been there done that with that mic

I don't want to argue, but what if you use a battery box? It should raise your limit of maximum sound pressure.. you can also set the levels (a bad thing is that, on the NH900, you have to press ''pause'' to set the levels!).

Nope, doesn't matter, that mic can only handle a SPL of if i remember 110 or so which if you are in a small venue or close to a stack, will without a doubt clip with or without a bb, been there done that, the recorder is fine, its the mic that is limited, pick up a set of church cards and you will see, not to mention that sony mic is limited sound wise as well.

here is the info from sony: •Frequency Response : 100-15,000Hz  , those #'s are not ideal for concert recording, lot of frequency getting cut off, look for something with a range of at least 40-20,000

[fmaderjr]

By the way the more I tape the more I understand that you can make a great recording (..and I mean a very great one) even with a  bad equipment, if you know how to do your job.

IMO, that's a huge overstatement. But you can make a great recording with good but inexpensive equipment (like the Church Audio stuff) that will sound better than recordings made with thousands of dollars worth of equipment if you were in a sweet spot and the owner of the expensive stuff wasn't.

You'd be hard pressed to make a great recording with a cheap no bass Sony mic like the DS70P and you would also be in danger of overloading the mic at any loud concert, resulting in a recording that would be truely terrible.

When you can get a system capable of making great recordings for $300-$400, I would't try to with a really cheap system featuring a mediocre mic like that Sony. Save up a couple more months and get something decent.

[rhinowing]

I've heard plenty of good tapes made with DS-70Ps, ECM-717s, or what have you

[fmaderjr]

Why make things hard for yourself by not spending a few bucks more? I can still enjoy some of my recording today made with a Sony ECM-MS907 (a much better mic than the DS 70P but still limited in bass response), but they would have been even better if made with the slightly more expensive CA-11's.

here is the info from sony: •Frequency Response : 100-15,000Hz  , those #'s are not ideal for concert recording, lot of frequency getting cut off, look for something with a range of at least 40-20,000

[Giant_Rick]

IMO, that's a huge overstatement. But you can make a great recording with good but inexpensive equipment (like the Church Audio stuff) that will sound better than recordings made with thousands of dollars worth of equipment if you were in a sweet spot and the owner of the expensive stuff wasn't.

You'd be hard pressed to make a great recording with a cheap no bass Sony mic like the DS70P and you would also be in danger of overloading the mic at any loud concert, resulting in a recording that would be truely terrible.

When you can get a system capable of making great recordings for $300-$400, I would't try to with a really cheap system featuring a mediocre mic like that Sony. Save up a couple more months and get something decent.

Perhaps I used the wrong words, what I mean is that the equipment is important, but not as the experience and knowledge of the taper!
It's like guitars (I'm a guitarist).. you can start with a 2,000$ Fender and sound like shit.. and in the meantime a good guitarist can sound like God with a 200$ Fender clone.
Obiviously sooner or later the good guitarist will buy a better guitar.. like me, who'll buy a set of new mikes soon.

[fmaderjr]

I see where you're coming from, Rick, regarding guitars. I bet the $200 fender clone sounds a lot closer to a Fender than a $35 mic does to an excellent buget mic like a CA-11, so if played by a great guitarist, the Fender clone is cabable of sounding great. It's hard to make a great recording with that $35 mic though.

I respect your ability to play the guitar. I love recording a good guitarist, but can't play anything myself.

[martinlan]

Hello all!

I'm quite new to this forum, so please excuse me for potentially dumb questions. I noticed this post, and I'd just like to comment on your statements about the Zoom recorders. I have an H4 myself, and I've successfully taped several shows with it. It's NOT phantom powered (although it is an option), and its internal mikes give a pretty decent result. It's easy to use too. Also, this is a digital recorder, so I don't have to worry about getting tapes (this may be like swearing in church, but I reckon tapes to be a quite dated medium in 2009). A high quality SD card is all you need.

Btw, I also read some things about the Zoom H2/H4. What about that?

If you want to keep things simple, you could just get a Zoom H2 and record with the internal mics, many people out there seem to like that approach and it gets reasonable results if you're not too serious about taping yet and just want to try it out.  Don't know much about the H4 but I think it is a larger, phantom power supplying recorder that isn't too popular.

[fmaderjr]

I have a Zoom H4 and hate it. I used it twice and both recordings came out fine (one using the internals), but it's a pain in the ass to use and has a wide variety of potential limitations. At the present time, if you don't need phantom power, there are many much better options for a similar or lower price (the Tascam DR-07 for one). If you do need phantom the Zoom is even a worse choice. It is very noisy with most mics. I hear the Zoom H4n is much better, but of course costs more.