Topic: To phantom or not to phantom

[redbook]

So I got two pairs of mics, some AT853 phantom powered and some CMC-4s (AT853, too?).
I don't have access or money now to buy a PS2 or any other "middle". I have a simple batt box, so what do you recommend me to use?

Do I have any real gain in using the phantoms plugged to a simple batt box?

Thanks

[blu666z]

How are the phantom powered mics terminated?  What input does the battery box have?

-Kevin

[Chanher]

I recomend that you first run your mics as they are. I JUST got my at831's mod'd to accept phantom by leegedy (and he did a fantastic job) after running them for 3 years. If you are not satisfied then you can consider the mod.

[nickgregory]

the 853 phantom powered mics will take a loud, bassy, boomy signal and not distort...the batt box ones will on occassion

[Sanjay]

I had sold him a pair of AT853's which are already modded for phantom power with the mini xlr's and samson pm4's.  That should help clarify his post.  My vote is and always will be phantom.

[spyder9]

Ditto, Phantom is king!!!

[blu666z]

Phantom is the way to go but he doesn't have that capability so I'm not sure what the question is.

-Kevin

[jpschust]

if the question is phantom vs battery, always phantom.  more power = more dynamic range.

[redbook]

I probably should have explained myself better.
I got from sircheck some phantomed  AT853's with some samson connectors.

I have a Core Sound Battery Box, at first I was wanting to run trough this (AT853 > CSBB > JB3)until I can buy some other power for the mics (sircheck suggested a PS2). It looks clear now to me that I really have to go to a PS2 or something like that. I have read on the forums that the PS2 is actually just power for the mics and not a preamp. Should I really use a PS2. What other device can I plug here to get good results?

Thanks and sorry for newbie questions, thats my first attempt to have a rig and sometimes I get confused with so many devices. I just want to get decent tapes! lol

[leegeddy]

I probably should have explained myself better.
I got from sircheck some phantomed  AT853's with some samson connectors.

I have a Core Sound Battery Box, at first I was wanting to run trough this (AT853 > CSBB > JB3)until I can buy some other power for the mics (sircheck suggested a PS2). It looks clear now to me that I really have to go to a PS2 or something like that. I have read on the forums that the PS2 is actually just power for the mics and not a preamp. Should I really use a PS2. What other device can I plug here to get good results?

Thanks and sorry for newbie questions, thats my first attempt to have a rig and sometimes I get confused with so many devices. I just want to get decent tapes! lol

congrats on your purchase of the at853s.  ps2s are fairly cheap on the used market. i'd say save up a bit and go phantom.

marc

[thierryhenry]

The combo you are looking for is PS-2 > AD-20 (preamp), probably about $300 used around these parts. Good luck..

[pfife]

I've read that people can go PS-2 -> NJB3 via "transformers" - now what those are, I don't know.

[hhf32]

If tis an o"open rig" then I'd go with a UA5...phantom power,preamp and a/d all in one.

[redbook]

Forgot to say I will be stealthing 99,9% of time, so AD20, UA5 and PS2 might be too much for a show.
I think I will take a PS2 used, no money for anything else after buying a JB3 and the mics. Will this be enough to get a good signal?

[pfife]

Forgot to say I will be stealthing 99,9% of time, so AD20, UA5 and PS2 might be too much for a show.
I think I will take a PS2 used, no money for anything else after buying a JB3 and the mics. Will this be enough to get a good signal?

If you have a ps-2 and ad-20, the ua-5 becomes unnecessary.  The UA-5 does the following three functions:

1) Phantom Power
2) Preamp
3) Analog to Digital conversion

With the ps-2 and ad-20, you get all of these.  The PS-2 supplies phantom power- thats its sole job.  The Ad-20 is a preamp that also does analog to digital conversion.

I've stealthed the UA-5 before, but not really in situations where you have to go through any kind of security to get in the venue.  If you can get it in the venue in like a bag/manpurse or something, you'll be good.  Also keep in mind that with the UA-5 have to carry around somewhat large battery too- whereas the PS-2 and AD-20 can be run off regular 9v batteries.

Also, check the pre/ad section about needing attenuators with the AD-20.  It has a +17db of gain added to the signal, even when the knobs are turned all the way down- I've been in situations where I've totally needed attenuators- but those were loud metal shows.

Now, there's the subjective matter of which sounds better (to your ears) - the PS-2/Ad-20 combo vs. UA-5, but thats for you to decide- maybe you can listen to some samples of shows people have done with each rig and decide what you like better.

[redbook]

Thanks for your clarifying replies.

So I will go trough AT853 phanton > samson connectors > PS2 > JB3.
Is this configuration right? Is this the best configuration? What kind of connectors do I have to use from PS2 to JB3?

Some of my targets this year will be big stadium shows (U2, ...). Will this be enough or I'd better add more power to the signal?
Is the PS2 really big for stealthing? Any pics?

Enough questions for today.
Thanks everyone replying. Very helpful people here

[pfife]

I think you have it correct.  As far as going from the PS2 to JB3, you need transformers.  See JKLAbs message above, and maybe ask somewhere... I don't know what transformers are...

[cgrooves]

Just went through all of this myself.

Transformers allow you to use low impedance mics (i.e. AT853) with high impedance inputs (i.e. line-in on a pcm-m1).
For now, I have: AT857 (same spec as AT853) > AT power module (can use samson instead) > Hosa Lo to Hi Z Transformers (can use AT transformers instead) > line-in on my m1.

I plan on adding a ps-2 (phantom supply)  between the power module and transformer ASAP, so the mics can be used to their full potential.

If I don't use the transformers in the chain, I have to go mic-in on the m1 in order to get a good recording level.
(Mic-in resistance is only 4.7KOhm, where Line-In resistance is 47KOhm on the m1)  As everone knows, going mic-in is not desirable.

Attenuators reduce the gain of the signal when it is too hot for the input (basically opposite role of the transformers).  Like pfife stated, you would probably have to use them if you were running an AD-20.

Redbook:  I haven't used the JB3, but I assume that you would have to use the transformers between the ps-2 and Jb3 if you want to record line-in.  (Not sure what the line-is resistance is on the JB3)

[redbook]

Very useful post, cgrooves.

Where can I buy one of those transformers? How much are they?

I had one old transformer, don't know if this one will work

[pfife]

+T - that's good.  don't think it would work though. 

[cgrooves]

I looked at both of these transformers (Audio Technica CP8201 & Hosa MIT-176) and ended up purchasing the Hosa brand. Reason why: I'm using the AT8531 power module, and didn't want to use a long rigid connection.  The Hosa transformers have 'pigtails' on each end, that will allow flexibility and eliminate the long rigid connection.

Both transformers referenced above (and all other brands I've seen) terminate into a 1/4" phono, so you will also need an adapter. It seems that most people use the 1/4" to RCA adapter, and then use a Y-cable with 2 RCA's to 1 Stereo 3.5mm

I purchased 1/4" to xlr (male) adapters, and use a Y-cable with 2 xlr (females) to 1 Stereo 3.5mm.  The Y-cable with xlr ends seemed more versatile for future upgrades (UA-5, etc.)

Transformers will cost you approx. $15-$20 each. Use a search engine to find your best deal.
My transformers, adapters and Y-cable ran around $60 total (All Hosa brand).