Topic: Photo tripods, especially carbon fiber

[it-goes-to-eleven]

Getting ready to head out for vacation and wondering if anyone has any recent experience buying carbon fiber tripods.    Specifically, if you've bought one of the CF imports from china.

I did a lot of research into tripods and ball heads back in December...  The Gitzo's are amazing but I am averse to dropping $650-800 on a tripod and $350 on a ballhead...  I just don't feel I get out enough, though this will be a long vacation.  Though I may spring for a good ballhead.  The import CF tripods look good but as each brand gets popular, the prices go up enough that I worry about whether I'll be able to get parts in a year, five or ten.  Those tripods also seem to be going through a lot of revisions and improvements.  That's good except for concerns about parts availability.

I'm mainly shooting landscapes and doing miles of hiking.  So there is a definite tradeoff in terms of stability vs. weight.  The old belief that "heavier is better" seems to be going away somewhat due to the dampening properties of carbon fiber.  Some combinations of camera + tripod even seem to 'tune' well together.   My main concern is a pentax 67.  It's 5 lbs, and the shutter and mirror are large.  I do use mirror lockup, but it is still like a mouse trap going off.  Fortunately, I'm not shooting longer lenses.

I'm currently using an ancient Husky Quik-set tripod.  It is at least 30 if not closer to 40 years old.  Surprisingly good and about 7 lbs.  Could be better with a few tweaks.   I do wonder how quickly the adhesives and resins in the CF tripods will break down...

Thanks!

[Cools]

Try before you buy basically.

If you can trust your expensive gear on these "imports from China, then go for it. If not, spend a little more and get something like Gitzo and have the piece of mind that the legs won't just give up on you at the worst possible time. There's a reason why Gitzo is considered one of the best in the industry. The legs are light weight, rock solid, easy to use (great leg locks) and will last for a long time. You pay for the quality and guarantee that they won't let you down.

The legs have been getting lighter which is great for transportation, but when it comes to stability you still want "heavy" and rigid. You can get a centre column with a hook or a net that hangs between the legs so you can hang your bag or any other extras to make the whole setup as heavy and stable as possible.

Besides Gitzo, you might want to check out Induro and Manfrotto/Bogen.

[stirinthesauce]

I'll give you a tip from personal experience.

I have done some heavy duty backpacking trips carrying either a canon 20d plus 24-70 and 70-200 and canon 5d with above lenses.   I will probably never do this again in the backcountry.  I believe if for anything other than a day hike, I will go with a canon g10 and a monopod.  If I need a tripod, I will simply use my pack as support on the ground.  Even without a tripod, it gets friggin heavy with a pro dslr and 1 or 2 lenses.

 My day hikes are different, I take everything.

Carbon fiber is great, but way too pricey unless your making serious dough on landscapes and money isn't a concern.  I sell landscapes but don't make the dough to warrant those kind of purchases.  If your just feeling slutty, that is a different story. 

Seriously though, if your doing some real deal backpacking, go with a semi pro point and shoot with great optics and great manual controls.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

Try before you buy basically.

If you can trust your expensive gear on these "imports from China, then go for it. If not, spend a little more and get something like Gitzo and have the piece of mind that the legs won't just give up on you at the worst possible time.

I don't believe that for a moment.   There have been some very positive reports on import legs.  A tripod is just tubes and some fairly trivial machined bits.  Especially in cases where you want extreme rigidity, because there typically is no center column.  If my mill wasn't in storage, I would have ordered some CF tube and made a few.  Really good ball heads are signifcantly more complex to engineer and produce.   

Gitzo has been riding on their name a bit..   Case in point, they didn't even offer anti-rotation leglocks until a chinese competitor did.

The Gitzo products do have good residual value for resale.  But their high margin products are definitely under assault.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

I'll give you a tip from personal experience.

I have done some heavy duty backpacking trips carrying either a canon 20d plus 24-70 and 70-200 and canon 5d with above lenses.   I will probably never do this again in the backcountry.  I believe if for anything other than a day hike, I will go with a canon g10 and a monopod.  If I need a tripod, I will simply use my pack as support on the ground.  Even without a tripod, it gets friggin heavy with a pro dslr and 1 or 2 lenses.

 My day hikes are different, I take everything.

Carbon fiber is great, but way too pricey unless your making serious dough on landscapes and money isn't a concern.  I sell landscapes but don't make the dough to warrant those kind of purchases.  If your just feeling slutty, that is a different story. 

Seriously though, if your doing some real deal backpacking, go with a semi pro point and shoot with great optics and great manual controls.

Thanks for the feedback.  I'm more on the day hike plan.  But the shoulder bruises from lugging the tripod and gear add up.

Fact is, the weight savings with CF isn't that significant.  5 lbs legs go to 4 lbs, etc.   And I question the lifespan of the adhesives, etc.   But the material properties of CF in regard to dampening do seem to be signifcant (that's probably a bigger deal in really lightweight tripods).  I expect we will continue to see CF tripod prices decline.   I'll probably just pickup the latest version of the old standby - a bogen 055xproB.

Digital is definitely easier because of the IS and the ability to evaluate what you've just shot.  With the 67, I'm setting exposure, composing, hoping the light doesn't change, and then releasing the mirror and losing my viewfinder... and then tripping the shutter.  Doing that handheld, especially on a moving boat is really tough (but a tripod is generally not viable on the boat because the engine vibrations and the need for pan.. though the boat is bigger this time and I think the bow may be viable for a tripod). And you have no way to know if you got the shot.  I should probably rig a wire frame on top of the camera for those situations to confirm I'm still on target after releasing the MLU..   But what I get from the 6x7 transparencies and fixed focal length lenses with 4000 dpi scans is amazing..  Especially for sharp poster size prints.  So as long as I have that scanner, I gotta do it...

Last trip, my digital backup was a panasonic lumix.  It is a good camera for the size with the 10x optical, but no manual mode and limited bracketing.  And it is rather noisy.  I'm thinking of picking up a cheap dslr body for this trip but that may create more problems than it solves - the thought of hauling the 67 with two lenses and a dslr with two lenses is really daunting and I would likely cover much less ground.   Maybe one lens on the dslr.  Last trip, I returned wishing I had shot way more film (though I still have stuff to scan).

[Cools]

I don't believe that for a moment.   There have been some very positive reports on import legs.

You just answered my original question. If you trust the legs, go for it. But like I said, try it before you buy it.

Fact is, the weight savings with CF isn't that significant.  5 lbs legs go to 4 lbs, etc.

Fact? Hardly. It depends on who you ask. I know a couple of travel photographers who go all over the planet and to them every bit of weight matters. Not just to make long hikes easier on the back but to also fit the gear on some of the small planes and other vehicles they have to take to get to the location. Oh and they all use Gitzo...

[stirinthesauce]

day hiking, then take it all.     It's just when you have a couple three days of food, stove, tent, h20 filter and water that a back and lenses and tripod get heavy.  I know, last hike my pack was closing in on 70lbs and went up and down 3 5k-6k+ peaks.  Tough!

[it-goes-to-eleven]

I'm giving the bogen/manfrotto 055xproB and 488RC4 ballhead a shot..  It will be a bit heavy but the lighter weight options are hard to justify.

I was tempted to get an RRS (or similar) head and a carbon something...  The price and quality of the RRS heads are both outrageous... I could have used it all summer and then just sold it for not much less than I paid.   

I may yet pickup a used gitzo and do the same... Just sell it after my trip.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

day hiking, then take it all.     It's just when you have a couple three days of food, stove, tent, h20 filter and water that a back and lenses and tripod get heavy.  I know, last hike my pack was closing in on 70lbs and went up and down 3 5k-6k+ peaks.  Tough!

That's nuts!

[it-goes-to-eleven]

In the fwiw category.... It occurs to me that Spring is when all the landscape photogs buy used Gitzos and then they sell them in Fall...  Probably somewhat similar for all camera gear.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

Well, I have the 055XPROB here... Nice tripod.  The center column's ability to pivot is a nice bit of engineering but I think that is going to eliminate it as a choice for me.   Basically, that feature causes the center column to always be somewhat extended by a significant amount.  I had hoped it wouldn't be an issue, or that piece could be removed and allow the column to be fully lowered.   And anytime you extend the center column, you lose rigidity.  Recall that I am shooting medium format landscapes and it is all about sharpness for large prints (otherwise there is no point).  So vibration control is critical.

I could fabricate a custom insert for the legs but that's a bit of hassle and I wouldn't be able to eval the stiffness until it was done.. And I'd risk marking up the black bits and not being able to return it. I do know it would be *way* more rigid than the stanard column setup.

Minor/major grip: the levers on the leg flip locks are plastic.  The flip locks themselves are alloy/aluminum.  The downside of any plastic is that it deteriorates over time and is prone to snapping off if caught on something in the field, especially in the cold.  Plastic also breaks down in UV.  The previous bogen models were metal. I have an old slik U212 tripod... Nice piece but the plastic on the head has cracked, rendering it useless.  So I'm very anti-plastic on tripods.

One of the legs has a bit of stick in one section.  All the legs except that one drop freely when the clamp is released..  It is has freed up somewhat but it makes me wonder what is going on (debris in the leg, leg not straight, etc) and if it will ultimately come back to haunt.  When I'm hiking from spot to spot, quick leg extension is critical. I expect a new tripod with flip locks to be perfect.

The ball head is decent but more like 750 grams than the 499 on the spec page.  That's a 50% difference, so pretty significant.

[stirinthesauce]

day hiking, then take it all.     It's just when you have a couple three days of food, stove, tent, h20 filter and water that a back and lenses and tripod get heavy.  I know, last hike my pack was closing in on 70lbs and went up and down 3 5k-6k+ peaks.  Tough!

That's nuts!

Yes it was, and those peaks were all done in 1 day.  I did the same the day before.

Needless to say, I didn't do much photography.  Too tired!

[rastasean]

I'm giving the bogen/manfrotto 055xproB and 488RC4 ballhead a shot..  It will be a bit heavy but the lighter weight options are hard to justify.

I was tempted to get an RRS (or similar) head and a carbon something...  The price and quality of the RRS heads are both outrageous... I could have used it all summer and then just sold it for not much less than I paid.   

I may yet pickup a used gitzo and do the same... Just sell it after my trip.

I have those legs and it has worked good for me. I think my ball head is the 486 which also works well for my non-medium format work. I don't think either one are perfect but for what I got, I think it will work quite well and not give me any issues.

I think the bubble level on it is pretty useless since mine never shows to be level even on LEVEL ground but my legs don't have any issues opening up.

Let us see your work when you're done!

[it-goes-to-eleven]

Been doing a lot of tripod research... in addition to all that I'd done before.  I've decided the Feisol tripods are junk and will not last.  If they were cheaper, it might be more acceptable but they're just too expensive.  I see some serious engineering/quality shortcuts..

The Gitzo copies from Benro appear much better... They are also quite expensive, so the bar for quality is very high.  I didn't really have enough time to satisfy myself on their longevity, parts availability, etc..  Amnova/dynatrans also has some interesting gitzo copies that are cheaper than most.   I use my cheap dynatrans mic stand a lot. Though the little plate that sits between the locking screw and tube was broken when I bought it from them via ebay.  I tried to get a replacement but their phone support was lousy in terms of identifying the part. It was a bit like pulling teeth.. They sent me some plates but they were the wrong ones.  So I have been using the broken piece.

I decided I didn't have any more time to screw around before leaving...  Gitzo resale values are very high and I just said f-it.  My gt3530ls arrived yester and, oh man, is it nice.  It's going to be hard to let this thing go after the trip.  4.1 lbs on my scale, and 39 lbs capacity.  I'm about to mount a markins ball head on it.

And the twist locks... I've never been a fan of twist locks, but I am now.  They are amazing.  They really are a quarter turn.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

I've been in Vancouver for a bit more than a week... The Gitzo + markins head and rrs quick release are *amazing*.  So glad I went that route for a trip like this.  Though I'm finding I don't remove the camera from the tripod as much because it isn't so bad to carry as a whole.

I'm shooting velvia 50 and trying to meter my film consumption... Current stash is 44 rolls of velvia 50, 13 velvia 100 and 13 various b&w, all in 120.   I'll probably order some more for delivery in alaska once we get closer.

Also doing some nature recordings but we're not quite far enough away from noise yet.

[stirinthesauce]

I've been in Vancouver for a bit more than a week... The Gitzo + markins head and rrs quick release are *amazing*.  So glad I went that route for a trip like this.  Though I'm finding I don't remove the camera from the tripod as much because it isn't so bad to carry as a whole.

I'm shooting velvia 50 and trying to meter my film consumption... Current stash is 44 rolls of velvia 50, 13 velvia 100 and 13 various b&w, all in 120.   I'll probably order some more for delivery in alaska once we get closer.

Also doing some nature recordings but we're not quite far enough away from noise yet.

You BETTER post some pics later 

I'm jealous of your trip

[it-goes-to-eleven]

We're in Refuge cove and enjoying great weather and doing a few minor projects on the boat.

Last night we were invited to a friend's boat for drinks.. We took the dinghy over and everything was good. We got on the subject of folk music and a performance our host's wife gave last year.  She busted out the guitar and started singing...   It was totally unexpected and my rig (mk21 > v3 > r09) was back on the boat.  I don't have to tell you how that hurts...  I had my Lumix with me and shot some video with poor audio.  Unfortunately my SD card was quite full and filled up (I did not expect to shoot vid).   In the end, it was for the better... My friend has a terrible voice and was too f'n drunk and would have ruined the recording anyway.  At least I can give him the "this is how bad you sound... you need to not sing.." demo

[Red Boink]

Gitzo is worth the money imho.  I've read of failures with the Chinese knockoffs, Benro in particular.... 

Best,


John

[it-goes-to-eleven]

We're still playing in Vancouver... weather has been mixed.   The boat handles weather very well but there are a lot of logs, especially in Johnstone strait.   They're extremely difficult to see in rough water... and they're huge.

The Gitzo continues to amaze and 'just work'..  However, right now a lot of my time is on floating docks and they just don't settle down enough for longer exposures.  Many of these places don't have power, so the buzz of generators has hampered my nature recordings.

Eating fresh crab and prawns... Fishing has been mixed so far (have spent very little time trying) but should improve as we head north.  We are seeing a ton of fish on the fish finder.

We'll be crossing into the rather desolate area between vancouver and alaska soon.  Our current wifi is via sat.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

We are here and heading north..


http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=shearwater+bc&sll=52.15066,-128.117924&sspn=0.050979,0.138531&ie=UTF8&ll=52.153925,-128.091316&spn=0.101951,0.277061&t=h&z=12&iwloc=A

[it-goes-to-eleven]

Been getting *amazing* weather in Alaska.... Sunshine is rare here but we've had a ton of it.  Did a bunch of glacier hiking in glacier bay and have lost count of the number of whales and whale breaches.  Recently ordered and received more Velvia..

I built some hydrophones and have been recording whales, in addition to my other nature recordings.

Eating lots of crab and salmon.

I've waded streams with the gitzo and set it up mid-stream.  Amazing piece of gear..