Topic: Nbox/CMR Comp

[schoepsnbox]

Bottom line, dither doesn't cause +/-3dB peaks in response below 10kHz.

None of this is a concern unless you are recording mosquito farts     Just sayin'

Should have some more good comps once Ed gets back home...CMC6 vs CMR's...That will be the true test!

So its personal for you nick, thats at least 3 shots you have taken at me personally when i have never done that to you, you sure are doing your best to paint the cmr in a bad way, not sure why, there is plenty enough room for both, and i will say it again, both samples sounded good but more people prefer the one, that doesn't mean there isn't a place for the other. Here is a quote of yours  "these CMR's were designed for some lame wireless transmitter", thats just a angry statement, tapers are very inventive people much like yourself who also took a product and modified it for a use that many have loved, i don't see the difference there. You are trying to make it like there can only be one, thats what i was defending, and i have no personal gain except for the fact that I really like the setup. There is room for both, can't we just hug it out and call it a day.

On the contrary, you cast the first stone...I won't waste my time going through threads of you bashing and talking shit about the Nbox..you better get some thicker skin if you think you have come up with the best way to run the schoeps guy..Who died and made you the resident CMR pusher anyhow...I have over 50 Nbox rigs out there makin hot recordings and that is what makes me happy...what do you get out of putting a 5 pin connector on some schoeps CMR's?  You want me to stop takin shots..Stop comparing the CMR's to the Nbox as it is obvious that the CMR's are an inferior way to run schoeps caps...period!
"these CMR's were designed for some lame wireless transmitter" how does this imply anger?  I didn't say CMR's were lame..I said wireless transmitters are lame.

[willndmb]

i voted #2 on a brief listen
they both sounded pretty good though

i can understand the thought of higher voltage would be better for the caps but i wouldn't say (based on my fast listen) that the lower voltage really had much impact at all

[darktrain]

Bottom line, dither doesn't cause +/-3dB peaks in response below 10kHz.

None of this is a concern unless you are recording mosquito farts     Just sayin'

Should have some more good comps once Ed gets back home...CMC6 vs CMR's...That will be the true test!

So its personal for you nick, thats at least 3 shots you have taken at me personally when i have never done that to you, you sure are doing your best to paint the cmr in a bad way, not sure why, there is plenty enough room for both, and i will say it again, both samples sounded good but more people prefer the one, that doesn't mean there isn't a place for the other. Here is a quote of yours  "these CMR's were designed for some lame wireless transmitter", thats just a angry statement, tapers are very inventive people much like yourself who also took a product and modified it for a use that many have loved, i don't see the difference there. You are trying to make it like there can only be one, thats what i was defending, and i have no personal gain except for the fact that I really like the setup. There is room for both, can't we just hug it out and call it a day.

On the contrary, you cast the first stone...I won't waste my time going through threads of you bashing and talking shit about the Nbox..you better get some thicker skin if you think you have come up with the best way to run the schoeps guy..Who died and made you the resident CMR pusher anyhow...I have over 50 Nbox rigs out there makin hot recordings and that is what makes me happy...what do you get out of putting a 5 pin connector on some schoeps CMR's?  You want me to stop takin shots..Stop comparing the CMR's to the Nbox as it is obvious that the CMR's are an inferior way to run schoeps caps...period!
"these CMR's were designed for some lame wireless transmitter" how does this imply anger?  I didn't say CMR's were lame..I said wireless transmitters are lame.

Its an alternate option and newer technology, give it a chance and i never bashed the nbox, only why i personally decided not to use it, in fact i told you once that my best recording was with it. This thread was started comparing the 2 wasn't it? Anyway Nick, obviously this has struck a cord in you so I won't respond anymore, not trying to make enemies.

[schoepsnbox]

Bottom line, dither doesn't cause +/-3dB peaks in response below 10kHz.

None of this is a concern unless you are recording mosquito farts     Just sayin'

Should have some more good comps once Ed gets back home...CMC6 vs CMR's...That will be the true test!

So its personal for you nick, thats at least 3 shots you have taken at me personally when i have never done that to you, you sure are doing your best to paint the cmr in a bad way, not sure why, there is plenty enough room for both, and i will say it again, both samples sounded good but more people prefer the one, that doesn't mean there isn't a place for the other. Here is a quote of yours  "these CMR's were designed for some lame wireless transmitter", thats just a angry statement, tapers are very inventive people much like yourself who also took a product and modified it for a use that many have loved, i don't see the difference there. You are trying to make it like there can only be one, thats what i was defending, and i have no personal gain except for the fact that I really like the setup. There is room for both, can't we just hug it out and call it a day.

On the contrary, you cast the first stone...I won't waste my time going through threads of you bashing and talking shit about the Nbox..you better get some thicker skin if you think you have come up with the best way to run the schoeps guy..Who died and made you the resident CMR pusher anyhow...I have over 50 Nbox rigs out there makin hot recordings and that is what makes me happy...what do you get out of putting a 5 pin connector on some schoeps CMR's?  You want me to stop takin shots..Stop comparing the CMR's to the Nbox as it is obvious that the CMR's are an inferior way to run schoeps caps...period!
"these CMR's were designed for some lame wireless transmitter" how does this imply anger?  I didn't say CMR's were lame..I said wireless transmitters are lame.

Its an alternate option and newer technology, give it a chance and i never bashed the nbox, only why i personally decided not to use it, in fact i told you once that my best recording was with it. This thread was started comparing the 2 wasn't it? Anyway Nick, obviously this has struck a cord in you so I won't respond anymore, not trying to make enemies.

Newer isn't always better..I believe you did say some derogatory statements about the Nbox rig to boast your so called "CMR parade"  so it's not the fact that you have come up with a newer alternate option..I'm ok with that...but don't put down a rig that has been tried and true since 1992..Also it seems to me that you sir are the one that has been getting peeved with the results of this thread as I imagine you will have some annoyed folks you pushed the CMR's on to...No hard feeling  

[StuStu]

Perhaps someone can compare the two in a more controlled environment. Mudslinging will only make this 25+ pages with little to actually offer.


I'm a happy customer of both Nick and Robb and absolutely do not choose sides here.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

Here is a quote of yours  "these CMR's were designed for some lame wireless transmitter", thats just a nasty statement

Wireless transmitters are Schoeps' intended market.

The wireless transmitters are inherently low bandwidth devices.    Dsatz made a posting a while go where he mentioned that Schoeps had to revise the CMR specs because they did not meet the original targets... and then someone forgot to update the website.

I'd love to find the cmr's are as good as CMC6's... But if they aren't, they aren't.  And until it is proven - they aren't.  Hearing is believing.  They may yet be completely redeemed.  As a stand-alone result, this recording is Fair.  Compared to the nbox+ source, I think it is unacceptable.   There is no way I'd give up my cmc6+kc5's, or my RMOD, for that result.  Many of us want the best possible result.  Case in point, I own six different pre-amps, and each is suitable for different situations (though I never take the ua5 out)... and I'd like to add a littlebox, and maybe a tinybox, to the mix, but the thought of two more is a bit much.

Schoeps' own text:
--
Microphone amplifier for pocket transmitters CMR

Specially designed for using SCHOEPS ”Colette” series microphone capsules with pocket transmitters

[yug du nord]

schoepsnbox, Darktrain, and Naiant are all excellent at what they do.  No need to compare abilities or products.  The more kick ass gear that is available to the taping community the better IMO. 

I don't know much about the CMR's.....  are they designed for music applications, voice applications, or both?


edit to add:  I know that this is a "comp" thread, so comparing in necessary.  But IMO, a comp is to determine what each individual listener prefers between the gear used for the comp.  Or to try and diagnose a potential problem.  But a comp should NOT be a "bashing" of a person's hard work and ingenuity.  So.....  I like the idea of "huggin it out"!!! 

Sorry if this post might sound like nonsense......  it's been a long day.

[edtyre]

Just checkin in from the road and this is what i see 

Chill out Nicky and Robb. There is a reason Robb has the highest feedback on TS.com
I am a customer of his too. Nicky has made me some really great gear & cables and helped with
all my user error problems too, besides being a good friend.

A lot of us want to find out the true story on what the CMR's can do. My main reason for trying
them out was to use as a secondary pair in a 4 channel setup. Do you think i'm giving up my
kc5>cmc6>v-3>ad2k+ for these? Not a chance! They are small, i can change caps and don't
need any pre or power to run with Jon's PFA adapter into my 4 channel recorder. Seems like a
terrific idea. CCM's with changeable caps (sort of, with a quality hit)

In the next couple of weeks we are going to find out.

[tim in jersey]

Just checkin in from the road and this is what i see 

Chill out Nicky and Robb. There is a reason Robb has the highest feedback on TS.com
I am a customer of his too. Nicky has made me some really great gear & cables and helped with
all my user error problems too, besides being a good friend.

A lot of us want to find out the true story on what the CMR's can do. My main reason for trying
them out was to use as a secondary pair in a 4 channel setup. Do you think i'm giving up my
kc5>cmc6>v-3>ad2k+ for these? Not a chance! They are small, i can change caps and don't
need any pre or power to run with Jon's PFA adapter into my 4 channel recorder. Seems like a
terrific idea. CCM's with changeable caps (sort of, with a quality hit)

In the next couple of weeks we are going to find out.

Man, I am so on the fence here.

My inner-slut wants both. My bank account says neither. </gear lust>

for now...

Oh, Man, I am so on the fence

[darktrain]

Just checkin in from the road and this is what i see 

Chill out Nicky and Robb. There is a reason Robb has the highest feedback on TS.com
I am a customer of his too. Nicky has made me some really great gear & cables and helped with
all my user error problems too, besides being a good friend.

A lot of us want to find out the true story on what the CMR's can do. My main reason for trying
them out was to use as a secondary pair in a 4 channel setup. Do you think i'm giving up my
kc5>cmc6>v-3>ad2k+ for these? Not a chance! They are small, i can change caps and don't
need any pre or power to run with Jon's PFA adapter into my 4 channel recorder. Seems like a
terrific idea. CCM's with changeable caps (sort of, with a quality hit)

In the next couple of weeks we are going to find out.

Sorry Ed, for my part in dragging this thread down, i think both me and Nick are passionate and maybe thats not always a positive.

[schoepsnbox]

Just checkin in from the road and this is what i see 

Chill out Nicky and Robb. There is a reason Robb has the highest feedback on TS.com
I am a customer of his too. Nicky has made me some really great gear & cables and helped with
all my user error problems too, besides being a good friend.

A lot of us want to find out the true story on what the CMR's can do. My main reason for trying
them out was to use as a secondary pair in a 4 channel setup. Do you think i'm giving up my
kc5>cmc6>v-3>ad2k+ for these? Not a chance! They are small, i can change caps and don't
need any pre or power to run with Jon's PFA adapter into my 4 channel recorder. Seems like a
terrific idea. CCM's with changeable caps (sort of, with a quality hit)

In the next couple of weeks we are going to find out.

Sorry Ed, for my part in dragging this thread down, i think both me and Nick are passionate and maybe thats not always a positive.

Agreed, well said Robb..it really is the passion that drives us all around here...Truce?  I'm in.

[darktrain]

Just checkin in from the road and this is what i see 

Chill out Nicky and Robb. There is a reason Robb has the highest feedback on TS.com
I am a customer of his too. Nicky has made me some really great gear & cables and helped with
all my user error problems too, besides being a good friend.

A lot of us want to find out the true story on what the CMR's can do. My main reason for trying
them out was to use as a secondary pair in a 4 channel setup. Do you think i'm giving up my
kc5>cmc6>v-3>ad2k+ for these? Not a chance! They are small, i can change caps and don't
need any pre or power to run with Jon's PFA adapter into my 4 channel recorder. Seems like a
terrific idea. CCM's with changeable caps (sort of, with a quality hit)

In the next couple of weeks we are going to find out.

Sorry Ed, for my part in dragging this thread down, i think both me and Nick are passionate and maybe thats not always a positive.

Agreed, well said Robb..it really is the passion that drives us all around here...Truce?  I'm in.

I would but I already said i wouldn't respond

[Gutbucket]

Now that were all making nice..

Regardless of the acuracy of the comp and the possible off-spec cap & powering variables, playback gear has so much to do with listener preference.. along with what was for lunch.  Listening to the MP3s, I slightly prefered 2 at work though AT noise-canceling earbuds from a built-in Dell soundcard at the end of a long, exhausting day.  After a good night's sleep at home the next day, listening with HD650s through a better chain, 1 is distinctly preferable, hands down.  Curious what they'll sound like back at work after I get back from vacation.  [shrug]

I'll be following the tech side of whats going on with interest.  The single cap > CMC6/CMR in front of a speaker test should be enlightening. 

So...is anyone interested in an Nbox rig

Yeah, for my Gefell caps!

..or CMRize 'em!

[Brian Skalinder]

Stop comparing the CMR's to the Nbox as it is obvious that the CMR's are an inferior way to run schoeps caps...period!

feels like Nicky is trying to piss on the CMR parade

I don't have a particular stake one way or the other, but it's statements like the ones above that get people riled up.

In the former, it doesn't make much sense to say one option is inferior to the other...unless something is flat-out wrong with one of the options, which doesn't seem to be the case.  There are a variety of reasons one may prefer NBox over CMR, or vice versa, just as one may prefer Schoeps to DPA, or Grace to Apogee, or...whatever.  There's a tremendous amount of relativity and compromise involved in the decisions each of us makes when determining which gear option sounds / works best for our needs.  So to categorically say one is obviously inferior...period!...is simply silly, IMO, and it's no wonder people who are fans of the CMR option take issue with statements like these.

In the latter, I don't think it's fair to attribute motivation to another's statements without far greater supporting evidence of said motivation.  Doing so simply serves to inflame the discussion and turn it down an emotional, adversarial path. Which, as we've seen, doesn't really get us anywhere.

Cheers to those involved in the comp and the on-topic discussion genuinely aimed at identifying and understanding the differences between these two valuable gear options.

[dactylus]

So...is anyone interested in an Nbox rig

Yeah, for my Gefell caps!

^