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Author Topic: Story on Peluso mics  (Read 3071 times)

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Offline wbrisette

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Story on Peluso mics
« on: April 23, 2008, 04:37:42 AM »
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89705610

Pretty interesting story. I know several of you are running his mics.

Wayne
Mics: Earthworks SR-77 (MP), QTC-1 (MP)

Editing: QSC RMX2450, MOTU 2408 MK3, Earthworks Sigma 6.2

Offline Alexandru Petrescu

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Re: Story on Peluso mics
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2008, 08:13:43 AM »
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89705610

Pretty interesting story. I know several of you are running his mics.

Wayne

Thanks for mentioning this.  The story is about Peluso and Neumann.

-does NPR use extensively Neumann large-diaphragm for in-studio?
-what other Radios use Neumann ldc like that? (BBC, other)
-is Schoeps e.g. MK 4V being used in some Radio studio?  Which?
-why are the interviewed people being connected over ISDN whereas they can record locally and upload mp3 subsequently to npr.org, especially knowing NPR goes through an editing phase - that's not live.
-why hasn't the interviewed person posted the entire contents of his entire argument (cut by NPR).

Thinking about these...

Alex

Offline DSatz

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Re: Story on Peluso mics
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2008, 11:24:39 PM »
Alex, NPR has its own recording facilities and so do many of their member stations; in addition they broadcast live recordings made by many outside engineers. I've recorded concerts for them a number of times, and so have lots of other people. They don't use one brand or type of microphone exclusively, but the staff announcers for the particular program that this segment was taken from, "All Things Considered," have used Neumann U 87s for many years now. For actuality recording on location, NPR engineers may use dynamic microphones as well as various condenser types, depending on conditions.

Here in New York, at least in the studios which WNYC has used in the Municipal Building for many years, the on-air microphones that I've seen have been Schoeps, though I believe some still have the Studer brand name on them. Again, they also use outside engineers; I recorded for them a number of times as a freelancer in the early and mid-1980s. I'm not sure why you asked about the MK 4V in particular, but I don't think that capsule type existed yet when WNYC bought most of their Schoeps microphones. The station is moving into a new set of studios and it seems likely that they will get more microphones in the process, but I have no inside information about that.

The "interviewed person"--Klaus Heyne--said, "They could for the first time not only transport the words and the information, but they could transport emotion, and that was revolutionary." That type of statement makes me want to say, "you can't be serious." Do all recordings ever made before that time, or those made from then on with other types of microphone, really lack emotion? I don't know of any halfway serious listener who would agree with that.

If what he said isn't what he meant, then perhaps he should have said what he really meant. Unfortunately, though, I think it probably was what he really meant to say. If you want to hear more statements of this kind you can get the conference recording of the master class on "vintage" microphones which he and Oliver Archut gave at last October's AES convention in New York.

--best regards
« Last Edit: April 23, 2008, 11:35:32 PM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

RebelRebel

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Re: Story on Peluso mics
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2008, 11:47:02 PM »
Alex, NPR has its own recording facilities and so do many of their member stations; in addition they broadcast live recordings made by many outside engineers. I've recorded concerts for them a number of times, and so have lots of other people. They don't use one brand or type of microphone exclusively, but the staff announcers for the particular program that this segment was taken from, "All Things Considered," have used Neumann U 87s for many years now. For actuality recording on location, NPR engineers may use dynamic microphones as well as various condenser types, depending on conditions.

Here in New York, at least in the studios which WNYC has used in the Municipal Building for many years, the on-air microphones that I've seen have been Schoeps, though I believe some still have the Studer brand name on them. Again, they also use outside engineers; I recorded for them a number of times as a freelancer in the early and mid-1980s. I'm not sure why you asked about the MK 4V in particular, but I don't think that capsule type existed yet when WNYC bought most of their Schoeps microphones. The station is moving into a new set of studios and it seems likely that they will get more microphones in the process, but I have no inside information about that.

The "interviewed person"--Klaus Heyne--said, "They could for the first time not only transport the words and the information, but they could transport emotion, and that was revolutionary." That type of statement makes me want to say, "you can't be serious." Do all recordings ever made before that time, or those made from then on with other types of microphone, really lack emotion? I don't know of any halfway serious listener who would agree with that.

If what he said isn't what he meant, then perhaps he should have said what he really meant. Unfortunately, though, I think it probably was what he really meant to say. If you want to hear more statements of this kind you can get the conference recording of the master class on "vintage" microphones which he and Oliver Archut gave at last October's AES convention in New York.

--best regards

HA! ;D That pretty much sums it up./
« Last Edit: April 24, 2008, 09:38:23 PM by Teddy »

Offline Alexandru Petrescu

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Re: Story on Peluso mics
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2008, 05:36:49 PM »
[...]
I'm not sure why you asked about the MK 4V in particular, but I don't think that capsule type existed yet when WNYC bought most of their Schoeps microphones. The station is moving into a new set of studios and it seems likely that they will get more microphones in the process, but I have no inside information about that.

David, thanks for presenting the NPR interviewing event in a certain perspective.

This is diverting from the main topic, but anyways, still microphones and radios... I've mentioned MK 4V because that's what Schoeps documentation primarily recommends for Radio Announcer, so probably studios go that way.  A Radio studio where I live pictures on its listener page what appears as a Schoeps CMH 6 Handheld microphone... I guess it's either because they use it, or because they find it to be famous, I have no idea...  Personally not being particularly impressed by that body shape, I don't even know its sound.

Offline DSatz

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Re: Story on Peluso mics
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2008, 09:10:11 PM »
Alexandru, I don't know the sound of the CMH series microphones, either, but I think it is simply true that when a microphone is to be turned into a visual object, it helps to have a large microphone.

There is a "coffee table book" by a fellow named Anselm Roessler about the history of the Neumann company, fully authorized by Neumann. In the book--well, I think it should be all right if I post a brief, scanned excerpt (see below).

What I'm trying to point out is that the Neumann condenser microphones were not only used as tools of propaganda as described in the NPR broadcast, but also that in an age of marketing, the microphones themselves have become objects of a kind of propaganda, too--they convey an image about themselves which can be quite persuasive. I think in fact that Klaus can be considered a kind of advanced amateur in that sense--he isn't an engineer in any formal sense that I am aware of, and his theories and beliefs and preferences about microphones are purely personal and subjective.

Neumann in earlier times had not been quite so sensitive to marketing issues; on the contrary, a serious German engineer wouldn't want to be seen as concerning himself with such things. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Stephen Temmer, whose Gotham Audio Corp. had become the North American representative for Neumann, was a decisive influence in having the outward shape of the U 67 finished by a modern industrial designer, once its basic construction had been set by the engineers at Neumann.

--best regards
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline wbrisette

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Re: Story on Peluso mics
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2008, 06:40:37 AM »
I had thought it was a requirement of AES to have a technical degree; if in fact I found out I was eligible, I wouldn't want to be a member!

No. But to be a "real" member you have to be recommended by two members in good standing. You can be a student or associate member without that, but you do have to have some sort of tie in to audio.

Wayne
Mics: Earthworks SR-77 (MP), QTC-1 (MP)

Editing: QSC RMX2450, MOTU 2408 MK3, Earthworks Sigma 6.2

Offline DSatz

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Re: Story on Peluso mics
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2008, 09:00:34 AM »
When I joined the AES I had only a degree in music from a conservatory, some recording experience which may not have been professional yet at that point, plus a recommendation from another member of the AES (David Griesinger). But the organization is specifically open to members of "allied professions" and I was working on the hopeful assumption that professional musicians and recording engineers could be "allied."

Back to the NPR feature--it was "good radio" for those who know little or nothing about the subject matter, but not such good reporting in my opinion. I was especially taken aback by the degree to which microphone design and manufacture was presented as a "secret craft," and the importance that was placed on this mysterious person through whom Mr. Peluso was initiated into the craft through oral tradition. That all paints a picture that can sounds very convincing, but it's pretty skewed.

For example, they included a segment on tuning the diaphragm tension of a capsule "by ear" without presenting this action in any serious technical perspective. It's impressive if someone can do that, certainly; but is it really the best way to do things? Klaus Heyne may believe with all his heart that it is, but what if it really can be done better in some other way? That alters the whole story line, breaks the romantic spell, and makes for less entertaining radio for sure. But maybe better microphones, too.

A lone individual with a heart, working through his human senses rather than by algorithm--by inference the listener is supposed to "get" that this is just how things ought to be done, a nice picture. But a circular re-writing of history is going on here. People should read Helmholtz and other 19th-century physicists on acoustics. It's not as if the microphones that are revered as "classics" today were designed during the dark ages! All the essentials of acoustics were known at that time, and the people who designed these early microphones were scientists who would still understand in essence all the technical concerns of today. The materials, circuit components and some of the production methods might be considered crude by today's standards, though in some respects production required more direct human involvement even for routine tasks, because with the available methods it had to be, and this can have nice esthetic side effects. Old microphones can look very nice in their own interesting way.

But those people weren't amateurs and they didn't have their heads in the clouds. It is very arrogant of people today to believe that we will simply stumble upon basic things which the people back then cannot have seen. I'm not denying that there are a few secrets here and there, particularly with regard to capsules. But science and craft are both involved to a high degree, and either part without enough of the other is very limited in what it can do. The NPR feature separated the two elements to an extreme, and mystified the subject matter.

It also seems a bit unfair for NPR to have singled out this one person as if he alone possessed these secrets--as if he alone is producing microphones with which music can be successfully recorded, emotion and all. If they had done a feature on David Bock, or the people at Royer, for example, if they wanted to avoid well-known manufacturers. Royer to me would be especially interesting because they do all their own manufacturing as far as I am aware; the development of appropriate production techniques is a skill in which this country used to excel, but is perhaps undervalued today. It's not as romantic as the notion of secret knowledge and "tuning" the diaphragm of a capsule by ear, but I think it matters more, and eventually leads to better-sounding microphones.

OK, enough ranting--gotta go. Take care, everyone.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2008, 07:37:52 PM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

 

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