Topic: VR1s for dirt cheap on agon

[Nick's Picks]

someone...jump on this shit!
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1168064764

[Shawn]

Must check bank account.

[L Ron Hoover]

    $380 including shipping! Must resist urge.

[Shawn]

email sent to the seller since it's about time i upgraded my playback.  hopefully they arent sold. 

thanks for the heads up nick.

you beat me to it. "check bank account" is the married man's code name for "ask wife for approval." That usually requires some buttering up, which takes time.

Hope you get them.

[Nick's Picks]

I tell ya, I almost bought them myself.
I hope they land on a ts.com members doorstep.

[pjdavep]

I wonder how those mods sound and if he did them himself.  If a ts.com member gets them, please let us know how they sound!

Later,
   pjdavep

[cshepherd]

You can buy them brand new for $700 (edit: with full warranty) and not have to use the grills to make them look decent (also notice the cinder block speaker stands).  Another point is that moving is not really a great reason to be selling the speakers.  I moved across the country and one of the few possessions that made the trip were my electrostats and 110w tube mono blocks.  I think it's *at least* a possibility that he didn't care for the sound of the mods and is just moving on.  Mods are not always an improvement.  The longer VSA offers their speakers at 30% off, the more likely they'll start showing up on Audiogone for around $420 obo. 

Chris

edit...I think these speakers are overpriced and quite possibly a disappointment in the making.

[cshepherd]

They don't call it Audiofound do they?

Chris

[tiberiusbkirk]

can you explain why the speakers are overpriced? do you mean the orig stock version or this mod'ed version.
I have noticed these VR1's are mentioned on the boards I visit and wonder why the hype.
I went on their site and they mention the lower end under 3k models are made in China. that said, I love my soliloquy 5.0's my bro gave me. I don't own anything in audio anymore, they're all hand me downs. Free is good.

[cshepherd]

You can buy them brand new for $700 (edit: with full warranty) and not have to use the grills to make them look decent (also notice the cinder block speaker stands).  Another point is that moving is not really a great reason to be selling the speakers.  I moved across the country and one of the few possessions that made the trip were my electrostats and 110w tube mono blocks.  I think it's *at least* a possibility that he didn't care for the sound of the mods and is just moving on.  Mods are not always an improvement.  The longer VSA offers their speakers at 30% off, the more likely they'll start showing up on Audiogone for around $420 obo. 

Chris

edit...I think these speakers are overpriced and quite possibly a disappointment in the making.

do you mean these speakers that are for sale on audiogon, or vr-1s in general are a dissapointment?
if you mean this particular pair, why?  b/c of the mods?
-------------------------------------------
There have been some modification on this unit. Changes including: internal wires with silver-coated teflon wire for the tweeters and twisted pairs of 20ga continuous copper cast (CCC) wire for the mid/woofers. The high-pass capacitor has been changed to a Solen capacitor from stock. The dampening materials have been upgraded to accoustic foams and bitumen sheets.

I'm only referring to this specific pair as I've never listened to VSA speakers.  My comments were made because of the modifications and the condition of the cabinets.  For whatever reasons, he made a project out of these speakers and is choosing not to hold onto them.   They're heavily modified and you have no way of knowing what they sound like.  I consider the mods on this particular pair to be a negative factor because of it's unknown quantity.  If you were into tinkering with speakers it might be a different story.  For someone who knows nothing about playback, I think these are a really poor first step.  I would value these speakers closer to $300 obo and be stoked to get anything at all. 

VSA speakers come and go on Audiogone pretty frequently.  Fifty to Sixty percent of retail would be considered a fair price for these speakers in VG to excellent condition.  The VR-1 used to sell new for $1000.  VSA has been selling their speakers online at 30% off all summer long with no apparent end in sight.  As more people buy them new for $700, the used price will fall down to around $400.  There's a pair in African Hazelnut listed at $425 that just sold as a matter of fact.

Chris

[tiberiusbkirk]

Understood, thanks cshepherd.

[Daryan]

You can buy them brand new for $700 (edit: with full warranty) and not have to use the grills to make them look decent (also notice the cinder block speaker stands).  Another point is that moving is not really a great reason to be selling the speakers.  I moved across the country and one of the few possessions that made the trip were my electrostats and 110w tube mono blocks.  I think it's *at least* a possibility that he didn't care for the sound of the mods and is just moving on.  Mods are not always an improvement.  The longer VSA offers their speakers at 30% off, the more likely they'll start showing up on Audiogone for around $420 obo. 

Chris

edit...I think these speakers are overpriced and quite possibly a disappointment in the making.

 

do you mean these speakers that are for sale on audiogon, or vr-1s in general are a dissapointment?
if you mean this particular pair, why?  b/c of the mods?
-------------------------------------------
There have been some modification on this unit. Changes including: internal wires with silver-coated teflon wire for the tweeters and twisted pairs of 20ga continuous copper cast (CCC) wire for the mid/woofers. The high-pass capacitor has been changed to a Solen capacitor from stock. The dampening materials have been upgraded to accoustic foams and bitumen sheets.

I kind of doubt that the reason he is selling is because he didn't like the changes the mods made.  Replacing cheap wire for better wire could only improve the sound.  same goes for changing some plastic bulk capacitor to a solen, though that wouldn't be my cap of choice.  Adding dampening material should reduce standing waves and therfore reduce or eliminate impendance anomolies as well as possible coloration of the sound.  If he didn't like the sound because of the mods, then his ears need cleaning.  As for the scratches, that's a whole other consideration.

[Nick's Picks]

i believe the VR1s are manufactured in china (the rest in CA), so they may not use excellent wire, but just warehouse stock.  who knows...but i speculate.


I think anything under $400 for VR1s, no matter what condition, is money well spent.  I spent $350 on mine, and I thought that was dirt, dirt cheap.  I would have plunked down more, or snagged these if they were posted at the time I was hunting.

[cshepherd]

I understand where you're coming from, Nick.  The VR-1 is a popular speaker and no doubt worth more than $400.  $350 is dirt, dirt cheap.  I think this extended discount/sale they're having is starting to have an effect on the used prices.  For those thinking about buying them used, prices are low right now.

Chris

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

if you don't care what they look like and if you don't plan to resell them for what you paid, that is a decent price but maybe not a bargain if you are on an upgrade path.  The problem is, most discerning buyers on agon won't touch something with a significant cosmetic blemish because they are potentially unable to turn them quickly to fund an upgrade.   The other issue is the modifications of ambiguous origin.  Mods done by a reknown designer can increase the value of a piece, but when you try to sell something that was modded by the previous owner and the details are vague, it detracts from the resale value.   Just my opinion.  I'd rather spend spend another $100 and be sure that I could resell them for the price I paid.  But for someone who will keep them for a long time, that is a nice deal.

[cshepherd]

^^exactly^^

+T

[BobW]

VR-1s are easily worth at least $500 new.
They are no disappointment, but are overrated at the bottom end.
If placed correctly, they go to about 70Hz, making a sub necessary.

They are smooth as a baby's bottom and image very well.
They are shockingly small and the sound reminds me of Dynaco A25XLs, but tighter and more defined in the lowest registers.
If a Sub isn't in the budget, close wall placement will take the bottom down to the mid 40's, but placement is super critical!

Absolutely amazing speaks for the price and size.
I care that the cabinets are made in China politically, but sonically, there is small bearing.
The finish, weight, and construction is great.

For chris'sakes! Don't go modding them.
Engineers spend a long time designing things, testing things, and adjusting things.
Charlatans abound in audio with magic crystals and snake oil trying to make money.

Unless you have test equipment, ample knowledge, and lots of time to tweak them, they are almost assuredly better off left alone!
Whomever sound dampens the inside of these is a dolt.

[Daryan]

For chris'sakes! Don't go modding them.
Engineers spend a long time designing things, testing things, and adjusting things.
Charlatans abound in audio with magic crystals and snake oil trying to make money.

Unless you have test equipment, ample knowledge, and lots of time to tweak them, they are almost assuredly better off left alone!
Whomever sound dampens the inside of these is a dolt.

I couldn't disagree more.  Just about ANY audio component can be made to sound better.  There will always be tradeoff's on a price/profit ratio when the final design is distributed to the public with any mid-priced (realitive) gear. Capacitor upgrades, rectifiers, etc are not snake oil by any means. 

Why in the world would a person be a dolt for wanting to cut down on standing waves, impendence anomolies, and better low end performance?  That is precisely what adding dampening material or additional bracing would do for the sound unless the concepts are well implented by the manufacturer, which in most cases they are not. 

I'm not disagreeing perse, but I would be interested to hear how you formulated these opinions?

THX

[BobW]

For chris'sakes! Don't go modding them.
Engineers spend a long time designing things, testing things, and adjusting things.
Charlatans abound in audio with magic crystals and snake oil trying to make money.

Unless you have test equipment, ample knowledge, and lots of time to tweak them, they are almost assuredly better off left alone!
Whomever sound dampens the inside of these is a dolt.

I couldn't disagree more.  Just about ANY audio component can be made to sound better.  There will always be tradeoff's on a price/profit ratio when the final design is distributed to the public with any mid-priced (realitive) gear. Capacitor upgrades, rectifiers, etc are not snake oil by any means. 

Why in the world would a person be a dolt for wanting to cut down on standing waves, impendence anomolies, and better low end performance?  That is precisely what adding dampening material or additional bracing would do for the sound unless the concepts are well implented by the manufacturer, which in most cases they are not. 

I'm not disagreeing perse, but I would be interested to hear how you formulated these opinions?

THX

No sweat, Daryan!  I am very opinionated about playback, to be sure.
And I love a good debate, as long as it stays friendly.

Sound-proofing the innerwalls of a speaker cabinet changes the inner dimensions and volume, thereby undoing critical elements of it's design. As I said, it is possible to make valuable modifications, but...and this is a huge "but"... any design mods should be tested for results.
Before embarking on a mod, it is wise to do the math and science behind the design changes.

It is very easy to be fooled with something as variable and subjective as hearing.
I portend that atmospherics have a more dramatic effect on preceived sound than many upgrades costing over $1000.
That is, simply waiting until the relative humidity changes could affect sound many times more than upgrading a pair of interconnects.
...Just something to ponder

Playback is a personal pleasure arena. If ripping open expensive gear and "doing stuff" to it makes one happy,
then who am I to condemn it?
But when someone says, "I think that I can out-do VonSchwiekert's design by adding $0.75 worth of vinyl floor tile to his speakers, I have to seriously question the validity.
When that person tries to sell that mod to me, I feel obliged, by my experience and training, to tell my friends what I think.

It's just one man's opinion, take it or leave it, as you like.

[Daryan]

Cool and well said.  I disagree but can agree to disagree and that's what  makes this fun.  There are ways to add dampening material without decreasing internal cabinet volume.  Blackhole 5 is one of them for instance.  I do agree however, that these mods need to be done carefully.  I wouldn't have dreamed of modding my speakers without Danny Ritchie's expertise, time, and development of the mod.  What I tend to evaluate is when embarking on a mod is more the realitive quaility fo the parts used, and whether upgrading them would be worthwhile.  I tend to find that a cheap capacitor for instance, sounds cheap.  Same goes for regulators, inductors..etc.  Whe n a manufacturer is desiging a specific product at a specific pricepoint, the cost of the parts is obviously a consideration.  If I can upgrade said parts without too much additional outlay (this is realitive, I know), I do.  If the parts used are up to my standards then I leave them alone.  Just my opinion, but I should add I find modding these things more fun than anything else!

Take care

D~

[Nick's Picks]

case in point...
the VR1s rear port, if you can call it that.  Its not referred to as a port by the company, but as a "fooler hole" (i'm sure they have a better word than that one I just came up with), that makes the driver think the cabinet is larger than it is, thus making it behave differently.

so doing anything to the inside of those would be detrimental to what the designer had in mind.

[BobW]

case in point...
the VR1s rear port, if you can call it that.  Its not referred to as a port by the company, but as a "fooler hole" (i'm sure they have a better

I thought it was a finger-handle     

It is supposed to depressurize the last baffled zone, but does not act as port in any traditional sense.
This makes them easier to place, according to the literature.

I doubt that I'd personally run out to buy Blackhole 5, to add to an existing design, but would consider it for homebrewing...but you knew that already     

Agreed to disagree, and as I have stated, I am acknowledgedly opinionated on matters playback!

[Nick's Picks]

certainly.
the other day, i was cranking some tunes and a ficus plant 3' behind my VR1s (which are pulled out 5') was blowing around like a gusty summer day!  that sucker was pushing some air, no doubt.

[BobW]

certainly.
the other day, i was cranking some tunes and a ficus plant 3' behind my VR1s (which are pulled out 5') was blowing around like a gusty summer day!  that sucker was pushing some air, no doubt.

You play loud!
Maybe there is more port there than meets the eye...
did it every howl or whistle from that much airflow?
It's too late for me to crank Mr.Lesh to see if I can move some paper, but I'll try it early in the AM !   

[Nick's Picks]

no noise at all...just movement.
yea, I play loud...I suppose.  I've got a big room to fill, and its not quite so "effortless" w/ 50wpc and monitors as it used to be with 250wpc and VR4s.