Topic: New improved microtrack (MT II)

[guysonic]

The MT II specifications say MIC-IN provides 5V plugin-power.
If this is true, battery-boxes would no longer be needed as 5V are sufficient also for high SPL regarding distortion capability as Chris Church measured...no distortion-difference between 5V and 9V powering.
My DPA 4061 would be glad too and for stealthers 1 part less to worry about where to hide all the stuff .

NOTHING NEW HERE 

As mentioned in my MT1 review, the deck has always had 5 volts likely good for 4060 series mic powering at the minijack input.
See review at: www.sonicstudios.com/mt2496rv.htm

Got a MT2 on pre-order for updating the MT1 review with MT2 comparisons of noise, input ability, and other cool stuff. 

[JoeKiller]

The MT II specifications say MIC-IN provides 5V plugin-power.
If this is true, battery-boxes would no longer be needed as 5V are sufficient also for high SPL regarding distortion capability as Chris Church measured...no distortion-difference between 5V and 9V powering.
My DPA 4061 would be glad too and for stealthers 1 part less to worry about where to hide all the stuff .

NOTHING NEW HERE 

As mentioned in my MT1 review, the deck has always had 5 volts likely good for 4060 series mic powering at the minijack input.
See review at: www.sonicstudios.com/mt2496rv.htm

Got a MT2 on pre-order for updating the MT1 review with MT2 comparisons of noise, input ability, and other cool stuff. 

Good to know.  Please check the autosplit first.

[Massive Dynamic]

NOTHING NEW HERE 
As mentioned in my MT1 review, the deck has always had 5 volts likely good for 4060 series mic powering at the minijack input.
See review at: www.sonicstudios.com/mt2496rv.htm
Got a MT2 on pre-order for updating the MT1 review with MT2 comparisons of noise, input ability, and other cool stuff. 

Good to know.  Please check the autosplit first.

And second, check with a 16GB card. Two or three of these are almost cheaper than on OTG drive for storage.

[guysonic]

NOTHING NEW HERE 
As mentioned in my MT1 review, the deck has always had 5 volts likely good for 4060 series mic powering at the minijack input.
See review at: www.sonicstudios.com/mt2496rv.htm
Got a MT2 on pre-order for updating the MT1 review with MT2 comparisons of noise, input ability, and other cool stuff. 

Good to know.  Please check the autosplit first.

And second, check with a 16GB card. Two or three of these are almost cheaper than on OTG drive for storage.

While I do have Sandisk Ultra II 8 GIG, really wasn't thinking of buying 16 GIG. 

Maybe assume seamless split, if working at all on MT2, should work consistently on any card >4 GIG? 

[willndmb]

NOTHING NEW HERE 
As mentioned in my MT1 review, the deck has always had 5 volts likely good for 4060 series mic powering at the minijack input.
See review at: www.sonicstudios.com/mt2496rv.htm
Got a MT2 on pre-order for updating the MT1 review with MT2 comparisons of noise, input ability, and other cool stuff. 

Good to know.  Please check the autosplit first.

And second, check with a 16GB card. Two or three of these are almost cheaper than on OTG drive for storage.

While I do have Sandisk Ultra II 8 GIG, really wasn't thinking of buying 16 GIG. 

Maybe assume seamless split, if working at all on MT2, should work consistently on any card >4 GIG? 

you are prob right that if the split works correctly it will on all cards
however not all cards might work or work correctly in the MT, like now for example
some cards do not read or read the correct amount of space and or read full when empty

[harimau]

Quote from CliveStaples

[/quote]

And second, check with a 16GB card. Two or three of these are almost cheaper than on OTG drive for storage.
[/quote]

No way.

Three of them add up to $330 for 48 GB of storage.  I bought a Hyperdrive and put in a 160GB drive in it for $300.

[F.O.Bean]

Quote from CliveStaples

And second, check with a 16GB card. Two or three of these are almost cheaper than on OTG drive for storage.
[/quote]

No way.

Three of them add up to $330 for 48 GB of storage.  I bought a Hyperdrive and put in a 160GB drive in it for $300.
[/quote]

True, but I'd trust the storage space of the CF Cards 100x more than I would any ole HD. Those hyperdrives are nice and all, I was going to buy one awhile back actually, but the added safety and no moving parts of the cf cards, not to mention how much smaller cf cards are taking up space compared to a hyperdrive or a similar OTG drive, has them as the clear winner in my book. I mean, how much space do we really need storage space-wise I would imagine (2) 16GB CF Cards or (4) 8 GB CF Cards for the non-7xx users would be PLENTY for almost w hole 3-day festival(RUNNING 24/48 tho), that is unless you're archiving the festival professionally, or you plan on archiving for yourself and record EVER band, and then you'd prolly only need another 8GB card, that would get youn up to 40GB, because I caqnt see ANYONE recording more than 40GB, unless youre doing 24/96, which I think is useless recording PA systems IMO. Since the 7xx units now record in FLAC Format, I see(personally) NO NEED to have more than (2) 8GB CF Cards. Thats just about 32GB of storage. I ONLY record in 24/48 anyway, so this is PLENTY for me. I would occasionally record in 24/96 for unamped stuff or bluegreass or similar music, because recording in 24/96 for loud PA music is pointless IMO and not worth DOUBLE the space in the end Just my opinion of course! That should take care of just about ANY festival I can handle. Thats almost PLENTY for a 3-day festival like All Good or Moedown If I need any more recording space, I can switch recording from the cf card to the INHDD Another HUGE benefit of recording to cf cards is the battery power it saves as well. On a 6000mah 722 battery, while recording to the INHDD or BOTH the cf card+INHDD(while recording to the INHDD in any way/shape/form) I can get about 6 hrs if I'm pushing it, safely 5 hrs tho. However, if I switch to JUST writing to the cf card and shutting down the INHDD completely, I can get about 8hrs pushing it on that same 6000mah 722 battery, 7hrs safely tho. So saving a whole 2 hours just about on a single 6000mah battery is HUGE for me

So for someone who has a 7xx box, all I would need is (2) 8GB CF Cards which would equal out to around 32GB of storage space since the 7xx boxes now write to FLAC format in just one of the 3 recording drive options(CF Card/INHDD/EXHDD). Normally the 7xx units can write to ALL 3 recording platforms while writing WAVS. I usually write to BOTH the INHDD+CF Card for maximum redundancy and since I havents ent it back to SD for the Hardware 2.0 upgrade yet. But anyway, for festivals, the FLAC FORMAT recording option is a LIFESAVER I can write to FLAC on the CF Card for festivals and save battery power writing to the CF Card (compared to writing to the INHDD) and save storage space while writing in FLAC. Thats a great combo IMO

Anyway, damnit, I get sidetracked SOOO EASILY and start talking about my own gear thoughts and shit like that and ALWAYS highjack the thread when I dont mean to. Anyway, about the MTII, this baby looks PROMISING. So how was the ADC in the MT I Would it be a decent sounding rig if I ran a pair of my mics>Preamp>MT II ya think Or is teh ADC crappy and Id be better off getting an R-9 I would LOVE to get a small 24-bit recorder along the lines of either the MT II or the R-9. I kind of trust the R-9 more right off the bat just because of the MT I's failures when it was initially released. I know from ts.com that most of the big bugs were wrinkled out over time and newer firmwares tho, and in the end, the MT I was running very smoothly except for the sealmess split thing o that does lead me to believe the MT II should be just fine right out of the box unlike the MT I was when it was released. So, the MT II is DEFINITELY a contender, and I like it better simply because it records to CF Cards rather than what the R-9 records to(I forget what the R-9 records to at the moment. Something like SDHC cards or something like that, right?) Anyway, whats different with the MT II compared to the MT I Any hardware differences? Like does the MT II still have TRS_1/4" combo Inputs? Does it still have a USB Powering jack and a Digi Coax Input? Are there ANY hardware changes? I know it is SUPPOSEDLY able to do SEAMLESS SPLITS on cards bigger than 2GB, so HOPEFULLY that works perfectly and that will be a DREAM come true for ALOT of tapers in this world The R-9 is TINY tho, and the ADC of teh R-9 was preferred over the V3's in a blind test comp So that has me leaning towards the R-9 simply because of its good ADC since I'll be using this just to plug out of SBD's when the opportunity arises. I will be getting another all-in-one to run with my second pair of mics so this is JUST for SBD patches and the VERY RARE times I patch from another taper(which happens about once every 5 years I manily just did that on Phish tour to have 2 sources for ever show ).

Anyway, Id love to hear some of your opinions on the MT I's ADC and functionality after the newer firmwares have made it pretty damn stable I bet alot of you wish you could just trade in your MT I's and pay like an extra $50 bucks and get an MT II, huh?

Damn, that link to that A-Data 16GB CF Card is DIRT CHEAP I should get one of those for my 722 FO SURE. The 7xx units aren't picky AT ALL with what cf cards they like, so I'm almost 100% certain that card would work in my 722 Damn, I remember when a 4GB CF Card was like $400.00. When I was getting ready to move away from my JB3 and move to something more reliable and something that wrote to CF Cards back in February 2006, a decent Sandisk or RiData 4GB CF Card was a WHOPPING $400.00 dollars Thats CRAZY how much theyve come down in price. Heck, I got a USED MINT condition 8GB RiData Pro 150x CF Card back in September 2006 and it was only $150.00/Shipped from the seller on ts.com, so they had already fallen THAT MUCH since the 6 months earlier when I was researching CF Card prices back in February 2006. I would imagine that even the Sandisk/RiData/Kingston 16GB Cards will be almost as that A-Data is before the end of the year. If not by the beginning of 2008, I bet by summer 2008 that even the more reputable card makers like Kingston/Sandisk/RiData will eb MUCHO CHEAPER than they are now. AS SOON as the 32GB Cards come out, its all over The (4GB), (8GB), (16GB) Cards will be DIRT CHEAP by then. It will definitely be a tapers dream come true I will wait until the 32GB cards come out so I can buy either another 8GB or my first 16GB cf card dirt cheap. 100 for 16gb of data on a cf card with no moving parts and saves me battery life, is a CLEAR winner in my book. Thanks for that link bro!

[jlykos]

The A/D in the Microtrack is not very good, but it is the godawful preamp in the damn thing that really limits it for anything more than a bit bucket.  I would be interested to hear if M-Audio has made any improvements in this regard with a new chip or anything like that.  SBD > MT does not sound good at all, IMHO.

I am currently sans recorder and waiting to hear how things shake out.  If the MT II has the same limitations as the MT I, I am going to get a Tascam HD-P2, even as a bit bucket, simply because it will have the functionality of a "real" recorder when getting SBD patches and such.

[guysonic]

The A/D in the Microtrack is not very good, but it is the godawful preamp in the damn thing that really limits it for anything more than a bit bucket.  I would be interested to hear if M-Audio has made any improvements in this regard with a new chip or anything like that.  SBD > MT does not sound good at all, IMHO.

Because of the switching noise and lousy PCB layout design insid MT1, very difficult to say the designers choice of "A/D" inside was a shortcoming as it was NEVER allowed full clean performance with all that interference going on.   

  Of course using an external preamplifier, especially one with very low output impedance (high drive current ability) did help squash at least the majority of this internal noise to sound very good to me, the internal A/D was still not free of switching noise pollution effects to more or less audible degree.

   Let's wait to see, as most of us hope, the MT2 is more fully engineered this time around to be a bit less quirky slow, and be finally free of high frequency power supply noises. 

[dactylus]

The A/D in the Microtrack is not very good, but it is the godawful preamp in the damn thing that really limits it for anything more than a bit bucket.  I would be interested to hear if M-Audio has made any improvements in this regard with a new chip or anything like that.  SBD > MT does not sound good at all, IMHO.

Because of the switching noise and lousy PCB layout design insid MT1, very difficult to say the designers choice of "A/D" inside was a shortcoming as it was NEVER allowed full clean performance with all that interference going on.   

  Of course using an external preamplifier, especially one with very low output impedance (high drive current ability) did help squash at least the majority of this internal noise to sound very good to me, the internal A/D was still not free of switching noise pollution effects to more or less audible degree.

   Let's wait to see, as most of us hope, the MT2 is more fully engineered this time around to be a bit less quirky slow, and be finally free of high frequency power supply noises. 

What is the latest word on the shipping date for the MT2?

 

[Massive Dynamic]

that link to that A-Data 16GB CF Card is DIRT CHEAP I should get one of those for my 722 FO SURE.

Hey Bean, one of the reviews posted on newegg specifically mentions using it in the SD 702, so your 722 will probably take it.

Also, to expand on your other comments, I attend an annual 5-day festival and recorded 25 hours of music (15 GB+ at 16/44.1) last time. At 24/48, that would be over 30 GB; at 24/88.2, more than 60 GB. If the MT2 pans out and uses all 16 GB of a CF card without incident, 48 GB would probably be enough to record a mix of different bit/sample rates depending on the artist or better sounding stages.

As for cost, a 60 GB HyperDrive SPACE is $240. Two cards do cost less, and I don't need 60 GB of storage. Could 16 GB cards drop to $80 by next summer? I think so.

[JD]

that link to that A-Data 16GB CF Card is DIRT CHEAP I should get one of those for my 722 FO SURE.

Hey Bean, one of the reviews posted on newegg specifically mentions using it in the SD 702, so your 722 will probably take it.

This card will work fine with the 722. I've been using one for about two months with mine, for a redundant back up of my recordings. No problems at all.

[F.O.Bean]

that link to that A-Data 16GB CF Card is DIRT CHEAP I should get one of those for my 722 FO SURE.

Hey Bean, one of the reviews posted on newegg specifically mentions using it in the SD 702, so your 722 will probably take it.

Also, to expand on your other comments, I attend an annual 5-day festival and recorded 25 hours of music (15 GB+ at 16/44.1) last time. At 24/48, that would be over 30 GB; at 24/88.2, more than 60 GB. If the MT2 pans out and uses all 16 GB of a CF card without incident, 48 GB would probably be enough to record a mix of different bit/sample rates depending on the artist or better sounding stages.

As for cost, a 60 GB HyperDrive SPACE is $240. Two cards do cost less, and I don't need 60 GB of storage. Could 16 GB cards drop to $80 by next summer? I think so.

OR you could record @24-Bit/48kHz and if recording about 30hrs of music, youd need ONLY 30GB of space since 24/48 yields about 1GB/HR. I routinely record about 30-35 hrs at the 2 big festivals I do every summer(All Good and moedown) and I record at 24/48. And that is TAPING MY ASS OFF. That is QUITE the workout recording that much and thats not even recording EVERYTHING at the festival. I usually record that much just Friday/Saturday to be 100% honest. Without archiving the WHOLE festival, I would say that 95% of tapers would be just fine with 40GB of space if recording at 24/48 or lower Well, the 722 has a stock 40GB INHDD in it, and I ALWAYS have at least SOME(3-4GB) of space left over, if that much. If you still want to record in 24/88.2, then thats totally YOUR preference, but unless recording bluegrass/acoustic/unamplified music, I personally see NO NEED to record at any sample rate higher than 48k. I personally record at 24-Bit/48kHz because I ONLY record amplified, loud PA music, and see no benefit to recording at any higher sample rate. The extra(DOUBLE@24/96) space and time and effort that it takes in post production that recording at 24/88.2 or 24/96, is simply not worth it for me. Nor do I hear ANY difference at 24/48 versus 24/96 I think 24-Bit/44.1kHz is just fine for recording loud, PA-driven music to be 100% honest, because after all, as we all know, the REAL quality difference is jumping from 16-Bits to 24-Bits BUT, recording at 24/44.1k means that you HAVE TO make a DVD-Video disc to enjoy 24-Bit in the DVD-Player world. 24/48 can be made into DVD-Audio discs as well as DVD-Video discs. I *BELIEVE* that 24/48 and 24/96 are ONLY for DVD-Audio discs. I do believe that 24/44.1k and 24/48 and 24/88.2 and 24/96 can ALL be done with DVD-Video discs tho. If that isnt the way it goes then I have it backwards

Anyway, I was just running some tests with recording to FLAC with the 722 onto my 8GB CF Card. Well, my tests were somewhat disappointing to say the least. When my 8GB card is freshly formatted and there is 100% complete empty space on my cf card, the 722 shows that the 8GB card can record 16hrs of audio on that same 8GB CF Card because its recording to FLAC(which SHOULD save about 50% of space) on the card. Well, realistically, that would be GRAND. BUT, REALISTICALLY, the card only records about 9-10hrs MAX instead of the 16hrs the card initially reads when 100% empty. I dont really care, because an extra couple hrs on the 8GB card is better than nothing, but its not worth it recording to FLAC with the 7xx series JUST YET. It wouldn't be such a huge deal if the counter telling you how much time is left for available recording on the CF Card/INHDD/EXHDD actually told you the CORRECT time available when recording to FLAC. Like I said, the counter reads that 16hrs is available for recording to FLAC on my 8GB CF Card, and I MIGHT have gotten 9-10hrs MAX on the 8GB Card at 24/48 The extra battery drain from writing and encoding FLAC on-the-fly is REALLY not worth it. My 6000mah 722 battery only recorded about 2hrs 30mins onto my 8GB CF Card while writing to FLAC. That is HORRIBLE. Normally, I can get about 7 hrs safely writing WAV to my 8GB CF Card with that same 6000mah battery. So writing to WAV is the CLEAR WINNER until SD works the bugs out when writing to FLAC.

And FWIW, I know you all have mentioned that the A-Data 16GB CF Card works well in the 7xx units. Well, not to sound too arrogant, but expected nothing less. EVERY CF Card seems to work GREAT in the 7xx units. NO matter what size or manufacturer or whatever. The 7xx units are not picky AT ALL in regards to what type of CF Cards they'll use. Thats just ANOTHER kickass thing that the 7xx units have over the other CF Recorders that are priced lower than the 7xx are. Hell, the Tascam HD-P2 wont even accept 16GB CF Cards. Thats a HUGE downfall for the HDP2 IMO. If it cant record to any cards bigger than 8GB, then its def something Tascam needs to try and fix IMMEDIATELY. Because CF Cards are only going to get BIGGER and BIGGER, and if Tascam and the HDP2 cant keep up, then they'll eventually get left behind and considered obsolete and its WAYYY TOOO early in the CF Card game for that....Hopefully, Tascam can just have a firmware update to fix the 16GB CF Card issue QUICKLY. Supposedly, the HDP2 can record to the 16GB CF Cards, but they can ONLY record up to 8GB on them, which is pretty useless if you ask me. So your only options are to buy 8GB or smaller CF Cards, which isnt a huge deal AT ALL IMO, but they def need to address and FIX the issue so that the HDP2 can write to 16GB or larger CF Cards in the near future So what Im getting at is this: The SD 7xx units are TOTALLY KICKASS and rule yinz faces. they arent picky with ANY CF Card media, and I doubt they will be anytime soon. I actually cant recall ANYONE mentioning that ANY CF Card hasnt worked in their 702/722/744T. I just cant wait for the 16GB Cards to drop below $100, which is already happening. Then I will pick up (2) 16GB CF Cards and I'll be set for any festival I choose to record at. I was hoping to just pick up (1) 16GB card and that would set me straight since the whole 7xx recording to FLAC thing came out, but obviously after the tests I just ran recording to FLAC, I will be stickling with WAV recording from here on out, no matter if SD fixes the FLAC recording bugs or not. Besides, WAV recording with the 7xx is SOLID AS A ROCK and reliable as hell anyway, so if it aint broke and you dont need more recording space, then why fix it and record to FLAC? I will eventually have (2) 16GB + (1) 8GB CF Cards for next summer and I would imagine that 40GB of CF Cards will get me thru ANYTHING, especially since 40GB of Harddrive space has gotten me along just fine so far I just prefer recording to cf cards because there are no moving parts and I tend to trust cf cards more than a spinning HD(Harddrives just FAIL for no given reason), and also, I save on average 2hrs of battery record time on my 6000mah batts recording to JUST the cf card compared to recording to the INHDD of the 722. 2hrs per battery that Im saving recording to JUST the cf card is HUGE for festivals. I normally record to BOTH the 8GB CF Card+INHDD for shows when battery consumption isnt an issue tho for total redundancy.

*****RAMBLING AND THREAD HIGHJACK ARE NOW OVER FOR THIS THREAD*****

[silentmark]

*****RAMBLING AND THREAD HIGHJACK ARE NOW starting FOR THIS THREAD*****

You should prolly put this notice at the beginning of your pposts ...

Now back to the MTII discussion, any word on a shipping date from anyone ?

[JasonSobel]

BUT, recording at 24/44.1k means that you HAVE TO make a DVD-Video disc to enjoy 24-Bit in the DVD-Player world. 24/48 can be made into DVD-Audio discs as well as DVD-Video discs. I *BELIEVE* that 24/48 and 24/96 are ONLY for DVD-Audio discs. I do believe that 24/44.1k and 24/48 and 24/88.2 and 24/96 can ALL be done with DVD-Video discs tho. If that isnt the way it goes then I have it backwards

you got that backwards.  just for clarification, the DVD-Video format only supports 48 kHz or 96 kHz for PCM recordings.  the DVD-Audio format allows for almost any "typical" sample rate, 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96, 176.4, or 192 kHz.

and regarding the 16 GB CF card capability of the MTII, the original MT can record to 16 gig cards, right?  I think I read that in one of these posts.  Assuming that's true, I really doubt that M-Audio would go backwards in that record, so I'd assume that it would be able to write the full card...