Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Battery Boxes, Preamps, Mixers, ADCs, and Processors => Topic started by: stevetoney on December 29, 2007, 04:04:32 PM
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For the slut in me, I now move from finally deciding on my mics to whether or not an external preamp would be good. I like the sound of the 140's straight into the 702, but I also really like what I hear on the archive when peeps have run a V2 between the 140's and the 7xx. So, given that I'll be eventually also running AK50's and their propensity to sound thin, wondering if the experienced people would recommend a V2/V3 or Aerco. Seems to me a really warm preamp like the Aerco might work really well with the AK40 and especially the AK50, and since the Aerco seems to be a warmer preamp, I'm right now leaning that way.
Opinions??
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As too the thinness of the AK50 caps. Since I now run 24 bit, I just "fix" the sound in post. If you go to almost the end of page 1 of http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,96171.0.html I talk about the "fix".
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As too the thinness of the AK50 caps. Since I now run 24 bit, I just "fix" the sound in post. If you go to almost the end of page 1 of http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,96171.0.html I talk about the "fix".
Yes, I followed that thread for sure, but you're running V3, so wondering about the effect on the sound and whether you'd prefer it to running without and/or whether you've run an Aerco or done any comparisons.
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my bad, you started the thread. :-[
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I preferred the sound of the AK50's run straight into my 744 instead of V3 > 744.
If I were you, I'd go for the Aerco and see how you like it. If you find out that you don't like it, you can sell it right away in the yard sale. You can always find a V2, or V3 later on if you decide to go that route.
IMO the Aerco is one of the best sounding preamps available to tapers. I don't think you'll be dissapointed.
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i wouldn't describe Jenson transformers as warm (which the aerco now uses). More along the lines of "full", "detailed" with "depth" and a deep "soundstage" with good "3d imaging" (though not the depth and 3d imaging I hear in apogee pres).
I get real confused when I hear the term "warm". It seems to mean so many different things to so many people.
Now, to the original question, I think the aerco would pair nicely with most mics. I personally have not owned the aerco but run preamps that had Jenson transformers and they sounded very nice every time I used them with whatever mics I had at the time.
I'm not a fan of the grace pres but that is me (my ears tell me their thin, sterile, unexciting<would be top of my list again for orchestral work however>), others love it and I've heard nice recordings made with grace boxes and the sd neumanns. So I guess go with what your ears tell you.
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I get real confused when I hear the term "warm". It seems to mean so many different things to so many people.
I understand your reasoning here. I like what you're saying. That three dimentional imaging is REALLY important to me. One of the things I'm after is trying as much as possible to recreate the sound of the live experience and this 3d factor...depth...whatever you wanna call it, is just so important to acheiving that goal.
Hammerhorror, good point on the Aerco being imminently sellable. Maybe I should put my order in now so I can have it before Langerado in two months.
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i wouldn't describe Jenson transformers as warm (which the aerco now uses). More along the lines of "full", "detailed" with "depth" and a deep "soundstage" with good "3d imaging"
Well put. Though I've previously described the Aerco sound as 'warm' (which is maybe more true of the older ones), I fully concur with the above.
Hammerhorror, good point on the Aerco being imminently sellable. Maybe I should put my order in now so I can have it before Langerado in two months.
So true. ;) Especially considering that I bought his in ~ 30 min after it went up in the YS.
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i wouldn't describe Jenson transformers as warm (which the aerco now uses). More along the lines of "full", "detailed" with "depth" and a deep "soundstage" with good "3d imaging" (though not the depth and 3d imaging I hear in apogee pres).
Then you like the apogee pres even better than the Aerco? Which of the Apogee's do you prefer?
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i wouldn't describe Jenson transformers as warm (which the aerco now uses). More along the lines of "full", "detailed" with "depth" and a deep "soundstage" with good "3d imaging" (though not the depth and 3d imaging I hear in apogee pres).
I get real confused when I hear the term "warm". It seems to mean so many different things to so many people.
Now, to the original question, I think the aerco would pair nicely with most mics. I personally have not owned the aerco but run preamps that had Jenson transformers and they sounded very nice every time I used them with whatever mics I had at the time.
I'm not a fan of the grace pres but that is me (my ears tell me their thin, sterile, unexciting<would be top of my list again for orchestral work however>), others love it and I've heard nice recordings made with grace boxes and the sd neumanns. So I guess go with what your ears tell you.
Did Jerry change the type of transformers he uses? I got mine last May and this is part of the email he sent me when he was preparing my order.
"The MP-2 has 48 volt DIN standard phantom power and is available in 2 gain
ranges, 0-50 and 20-70 dB. It costs $750 for a 2 channel unit. It's a
sturdy die cast metal case, about 4.7 x 3.8 x 1.3 inches. It's main claim to
fame is that it uses Reichenbach transformers so it's flat from about 7 Hz to
60 KHz and has extreme RF immunity. Distortion is .01% at -20 dBM input level
and noise is right at the theoretical minimum of -127 dB. Input is gold
Neutrik XLR and output is RCA. It has independent gain adjusts for each
channel on front panel knobs that are switched resistors, not pots as there's
no such thing as reliable little ones."
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Did Jerry change the type of transformers he uses? I got mine last May and this is part of the email he sent me when he was preparing my order.
I purchased (well, ordered) mine at the beginning of August and it has Jensen transformers. Jerry told me he had recently made the switch because he liked them better.
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Sounds like we're going to need to do an Aerco Reich vs. Jensen comp. Mine has Reich's.
Reichenbach's are no longer available. As the story goes... They closed and re-opened as CineMag and Bauer.
Now the choice is either the real deal - Jensen - or a copy that may be a Jensen ripoff. Before they had their 'falling out' the Reichenbachs were Jensen designed and QC'd. My gut says those Reichs are just fine and probably very very similar to the current Jensen. But if buying today I'd support Jensen with my business. If anyone has info on how the Jensens available today differ from the old Reichs, we'd love to hear it (maybe in the aerco thread since we're straying here).
Sometimes I prefer the aerco, other times the v3 or bg1.. and sometimes the psp2. Depends on the performer/space/mics. As much as I do like mics > 722, I'd hate to give up my pre-amps.
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Steve, I have always had a fondness for apogee products. Lot of haters out there but I really liked the mme pre and a/d stage. There were times when I ran an oade m148 in front (Jensen transformers) and did not notice a favorable difference. A little bit tighter in the bottom end maybe, then again the characteristics of the apogee pre was not apparent. What I like is the very deep, 3d image, extemely large soundstage and the "in your face" presence. Not the cleanest pre, colored for sure, but in a good way that my ears like. It just seems to make recordings feel "alive" for lack of a better term. I sold my mme awhile back and regret it. I've used it a variety of settings whether out enjoying myself or using it for work. Oh well, I could buy another but I think I will pick up mmp. I had a chance to play with one recently and was utterly thrilled. Could not have been happier.
As for warm, I sometimes find myself using that word but then thinking what did I really mean.
As for the Jensen transformers and the aerco, I think that is a great choice. You definitly have a versatile pre with the size factor, for section, lowpro or >:D taping. The apogees are big and cumbersome in the field (big reason I sold mine).
Good luck in your decision :)
-Jon
i wouldn't describe Jenson transformers as warm (which the aerco now uses). More along the lines of "full", "detailed" with "depth" and a deep "soundstage" with good "3d imaging" (though not the depth and 3d imaging I hear in apogee pres).
Then you like the apogee pres even better than the Aerco? Which of the Apogee's do you prefer?
Sometimes I prefer the aerco, other times the v3 or bg1.. and sometimes the psp2. Depends on the performer/space/mics. As much as I do like mics > 722, I'd hate to give up my pre-amps.
I like options ;D
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Did Jerry change the type of transformers he uses? I got mine last May and this is part of the email he sent me when he was preparing my order.
I purchased (well, ordered) mine at the beginning of August and it has Jensen transformers. Jerry told me he had recently made the switch because he liked them better.
I see, thanks for the info. It would be cool to do a before (Reich's) and after (Jensen) comp sometime regarding the Aerco as Freelunch suggested. +t to all
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I always liked the sound of the neumann's with the m148 (Jensen transformers). It would be useful in some situations for sure but the straight 140/V3 sound has really grown on me.
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Steve, I have always had a fondness for apogee products. Lot of haters out there but I really liked the mme pre and a/d stage. There were times when I ran an oade m148 in front (Jensen transformers) and did not notice a favorable difference. A little bit tighter in the bottom end maybe, then again the characteristics of the apogee pre was not apparent. What I like is the very deep, 3d image, extemely large soundstage and the "in your face" presence. Not the cleanest pre, colored for sure, but in a good way that my ears like. It just seems to make recordings feel "alive" for lack of a better term. I sold my mme awhile back and regret it. I've used it a variety of settings whether out enjoying myself or using it for work. Oh well, I could buy another but I think I will pick up mmp. I had a chance to play with one recently and was utterly thrilled. Could not have been happier.
As for warm, I sometimes find myself using that word but then thinking what did I really mean.
As for the Jensen transformers and the aerco, I think that is a great choice. You definitly have a versatile pre with the size factor, for section, lowpro or >:D taping. The apogees are big and cumbersome in the field (big reason I sold mine).
Good luck in your decision :)
-Jon
I am with ya Jon. I have really come to prefer the apogee ad stage and the preamps in the mme are not as bad as alot folks say. I am also with you about the grace preamps, fantastic products, but for my tastes I prefer some color in my recordings. I've heard great things about the MMP and almost got one to run infront of the mme but held my inner slut in check. Heh the latest piece I have been thinking about is the portico, silk baby 8)
In regards to the ak50's, while I am not a fan of them in general, the recordings I've heard with the mme in front are quite nice and have made me rethink about getting a set over the last few months, heh. I believe nyctaper runs this setup. Oh and the biggest knock on the mme for me is it's footprint. I never understood the design as I am sure they could have made it a wee bit smaller ;)
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Neumann KM100's have always had a sort of laid back quality to them to my ears. I would avoid the V2 as it adds to that character. The V3 improved on this quite a bit but I would have to vote for the Aerco as even still it's a bit more open in the high range which seems to lead to this effect. The Apogee products may actually be a good match with these mics as they do tend towards a more forward feel and somewhat clinical accuracy. You may find a synergy.
Personally I'll take the Aerco.