Topic: External storage retention life expectancy

[skokiebob]

Hello to my favorite think tank! I was just looking at some flash drives on sale, and noticed in the specs that data retention was "up to 10 years". Feel dumb for actually not thinking about this, but what about larger external storage units, like seagate, or WD Mybook, are they going to die eventually also? And if they will, what do you guys do with all your treasures, transfer to a new unit? As always, thanks so much, I checked the archive and didn't see this topic discussed, maybe I'm the only newb just realizing all his treasures will eventually vanish  (much like my 401k  )

[Brian Skalinder]

I can't speak to individual device life expectancy, but safe data storage is definitely an important issue.  Check the Readme1st thread stickied at the top of the forum.  There are a handful of threads delving into this topic.  Basically, you need sufficient backup / redundancy, both on- and off-site, to ensure data safety.

[heath]

are they going to die eventually also?

Yes--I don't trust drives past 5 years, despite the claims of manufacturers

[Scooter123]

I write everything to a 2tb Lacie.  Back Up once a week with Folder Clone to another 2tb Lacie.  Archive once a month to another 2tb Lacie.

[Sebastian]

I guess the best option would be something like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMCHpUtJnEI

Since that is not an option for me, I usually copy all my masters to an external HD that is only used for this purpose and to a RAID array of two HDs in my computer. This does not protect against disasters (like a fire, etc) but it should protect against HD failures.

[skokiebob]

Thanks for the responses, you guys are very generous with your knowledge. Let me clarify my question. Barring a disaster such as fire or a crash, will the data remain in tact forever, or at least til I check out? Realizing of course there are no guarantees in life, but should I even hope for my stuff to be there 10, 20 years from now without taking any actions?

[Brian Skalinder]

Barring a disaster such as fire or a crash, will the data remain in tact forever, or at least til I check out?

Only backup / redundancy will keep your digital data intact "forever".  You need to ask yourself:  what is my risk tolerance / how important is my data?

Personally, I intend to preserve as much of my digital data as possible til I check out.  As such, I have 2 sets of redundant data on-site + an off-site backup.  This is really the minimum solution required to ensure your data is safe in the event of anything up to and including a localized disaster.  And the model I've chosen follows a general rule:  digital data isn't safe until it's in at least 3 places.

If your risk tolerance is higher than mine, you may wish to have only 2 copies of data, both on-site.  And I think it's crazy to retain only a single copy.  So, ask yourself (and share with us, if you're willing):  what is your risk tolerance / how important is your data?

[it-goes-to-eleven]

Realizing of course there are no guarantees in life, but should I even hope for my stuff to be there 10, 20 years from now without taking any actions?

F no!

And if you make 5 different copies right now, you'll have to update all of them.  I have drives that I wrote years ago.. And I really need to refresh my backups and the original drives.   Unfortunately It is something you need to keep revisiting.   It's a hassle.  And don't forget about theft.

As an aside, it is funny my Velvia film transparencies have Much better longevity that any of my digital media (not even close).. but I still need to keep multiple copies of the scans.

[skokiebob]

Thanks guys, you rock. Sounds like I've got a shit ton o' work! Family pics are my real concern. My parents were rather lame about preserving my childhood in pics, (in their defense they didn't have todays technology) and I'm not going to make the same mistake. Maybe I'm way off base here, but I'm assuming audio and video data aren't that different? Anyway, thanks again, very much appreciated. Brian, in answer to your question about my method, I'll give you all a good chuckle, I burn all my stuff both audio and video to disc, and save the file to an external HD. That's it! So I'm thinking I should print my most prized shots. Regarding audio, do you guys just wait til a disc doesn't play anymore, and then re-burn it? My camcorder burns directly to mini DVD, I should probably back those up, would you burn another copy, or back them up as a file on a HD? Damn, I may as well quit my job and plan on devoting every waking minute to preserving all that is digital!     You guys are the best, a toast to all of ya!

[it-goes-to-eleven]

There is something to be said for printing shots..   But then you get into how long the prints will last, and that really depends on a lot of factors.  Most of those factors are theoretical because you just won't know if the paper/ink/dye is genuine or if it is counterfeit, how it will react to your storage environment, etc, or whatever.  If you go that route, I really don't know whether ink jet dyes or photo prints would be better...  I have a bias for photo but there is a simplicity to spraying dye on paper that seems attractive.

Similar for dvd's, cdr's and hard drives.  You just have no idea when a particular disc will start to give errors.  And when it does, recovery is more likely if it is pure wav rather than flac.   So, as was mentioned in another thread, don't store everything on the same brand, and especially batch, of media.  IBM had some drives back many years ago called "deskstars" (deathstars).  They had a manufacturing or design defect that caused premature failure.  Some people bought multiples of those drives and then were faced with ticking time bombs of data loss once the problem became known.  Big headache, even for those who didn't lose data.

DVDs are a pain.   They're slow to write and read, they age, they're bulky, they're expensive and I haven't really noticed them coming down in price like hard drives. NOBODY is going to want to "refresh" their DVD backups in several years... whether it is 5 years or 10.   In 5 or 10, hard drives will be just that much cheaper in terms of gig/$$.     Think about what it will take to test/validate 1 TB of DVDs vs. a 1 TB or two 500GB hard drives in several years?   Who has time to mess with approx 220 DVDs?   It is a question when we stop dealing with DVDs, not if.

Someone recently posted something I worry a lot about - theft.  Their external drives were stolen during a break-in.

The more I think about DVDs, the more I want to move away from them as part of my backup/archive strategy.  Though I still get a feeling of security when I take the step of burning masters to a dvd.  In some ways it feels more tangible than a hard drive backup.  I can drop a dvd from five feet and probably still read it, etc....

24/96 is a big headache... and I have been ignoring my intermediate edits of those masters.  Some of those intermediates have hours of work in them.  And 24 bit multi-tracks?  Ugh.  I'm glad I don't do video.

[stevetoney]

This subject has been coming up more and more.  In fact, it might even be worthy of its own forum. 

However, I basically agree quite strongly with the multiple harddrive backup strategy.  DVDs and CDRs simply are for playing anymore because I've found them to be just about the worst and least reliable source of data storage I've ever dealt with.  Five years is ONLY if you get good media and even then there's simply no telling when you're gonna start getting data errors...so the uncertainty of the media makes them worthless to me.

My main comment to add though is that people should be getting less and less shy about redundant harddrives as a backup means because of the decreasing cost of large 1TB and larger drives.  Compared to the cost of DVD and CDR media, this strategy IMHO makes harddrive storage almost a no-brainer because DVD media costs as much or more than comparably sized harddrives.