Topic: dry/harsh clapping sounds... what's the cause?

[su6oxone]

So I taped a few rock shows back in 2001 (U2, black crowes, etc.) on my Sharp minidisc player/recorder (don't remember the model, but it cost >$300 so it wasn't totally lame) using $200 sound pro cardioid mics (SP-CMC3) and a battery pack (SP-SPSB2) and recorded onto Sony ES minidiscs at the highest quality setting.  Now, the recordings sound okay, but clapping on the recordings have this DRY, slightly "harsh" quality to it that makes it worse than if it just sounded like the clapping did in real life.  I really hate this and would like to prevent this in the future but not sure what the cause is.  Does it have anything to do with using bass roll off in the battery pack or the specific mics (e.g. cardioid vs binaural mics)? 

[boojum]

Cardioids have a proximity effect in that they "hear" bass better when they are close to the source.  There is not much bass in clapping to roll off. Remember that you ae listening to a live acoustic sound (clapping) after a long interval of goosed up electronic sound.  That might account for the difference in your hearing.  And what are you listening to the playback on?? 

[su6oxone]

Just listening to it on my computer, but also on a minidisc player or in my car.  Maybe binaural mics wouldn't have this "effect?"  Anyone have this happen on your recordings?  It's not terrible, per se, but it is slightly unpleasant to listen to because of the dry, flat sound of the clapping.

[Brian Skalinder]

Any chance the clapping is clipped while the music is not?  IME, clipped claps can have the sound you describe.

[su6oxone]

Any chance the clapping is clipped while the music is not?  IME, clipped claps can have the sound you describe.

I'm not completely sure, but I don't think so since I was using a battery pack to feed the mics and was monitoring the input levels periodically.  Maybe I'll try recording with lower input levels next show I tape.  And I think I'll test it out at home too.  Thanks for the input everyone!

[newplanet7]

Any chance the clapping is clipped while the music is not?  IME, clipped claps can have the sound you describe.

Same here.
I just re-draw the clips with the pencil tool in SF8.

[su6oxone]

Any chance the clapping is clipped while the music is not?  IME, clipped claps can have the sound you describe.

Same here.
I just re-draw the clips with the pencil tool in SF8.

Thx for the suggestion, I'll give it a try too.

[DSatz]

Most small, end-addressed cardioids have somewhat elevated high-frequency response off-axis, as you get around to the sides and especially near the back of the capsule. It could just be that, assuming that the audience was all around and behind the mikes. Of course some microphones are peakier off-axis than others.

This is why I keep telling people that polar diagrams are extremely important. Supercardioids and (especially) figure-8s tend to have more nearly equal response at all angles of incidence than cardioids; omnis on the other hand have their strongest high-frequency reponse on axis, while the high-frequency response off-axis always droops to some degree, depending on the size of the capsule.

--best regards

[su6oxone]

Most small, end-addressed cardioids have somewhat elevated high-frequency response off-axis, as you get around to the sides and especially near the back of the capsule. It could just be that, assuming that the audience was all around and behind the mikes. Of course some microphones are peakier off-axis than others.

This is why I keep telling people that polar diagrams are extremely important. Supercardioids and (especially) figure-8s tend to have more nearly equal response at all angles of incidence than cardioids; omnis on the other hand have their strongest high-frequency reponse on axis, while the high-frequency response off-axis always droops to some degree, depending on the size of the capsule.

--best regards

That makes intuitive sense to me, and Chris from sound pros suggested the same theory.  If I ever get some omnis I'll test out this theory in real life.