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Author Topic: Reducing Bass in Post  (Read 5507 times)

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Offline T.J.

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Reducing Bass in Post
« on: March 25, 2008, 10:59:08 PM »
I know there is a couple threads already about this, but I have a specific recording I would like to reduce the bass. I read those threads and didn't really get a clear answer to my question.

here is a short 24/48 sample:

http://www.mediafire.com/?jxrx49mnrca

I want to do this using a minimalist approach. I don't really want to get into any sort of EQ. All I want to do is roll-off the bass a little. I have Wavelab at my disposal. The problem I have is that there seems to be a lot of options and I'm unfamiliar because of inexperience. So I'm looking for advice.

Somewhere on this board I saw mention of going Process>Dynamics>Presets>Hard and Soft Limiters. I don't know the difference. Plus I'm not sure how to actually apply them. Am I on the right track or should I be looking elsewhere?

After I trim the bass a little I would just add some gain and be good from there hopefully. So essentially I guess I'm looking for the quick fix  ;D

Thanks In Advance!

Offline KLowe

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Re: Reducing Bass in Post
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2008, 08:02:59 AM »
do a spectral analysis and see where the big bump is in the bass world.
go into EQ and "flatten out the bump" to taste.....
or...just run a high pass filter and set it to 120Hz.....
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Offline T.J.

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Re: Reducing Bass in Post
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2008, 08:44:30 AM »
thanks kevin +T

where is the HPF in wavelab? is it a plug-in?

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Re: Reducing Bass in Post
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2008, 12:58:03 PM »
or...just run a high pass filter and set it to 120Hz.....

^ That may be a bit heavy handed.  I rarely set a high pass filter any higher than 80Hz.  If the frequencies above that are too strong/resonant, a notch filter is probably best to flatten the bump (or even possibly a shelf filter if all frequencies below or above __ frequency are too strong).  With a high pass filter, it is good in my experience to start at around 40hz and slowly move it up the frequency band until 'it sounds right.'  'Mud' usually resides in the region of ~ 40-80Hz.  If your ParaEQ allows for controlling the slope of the high pass filter, you can also try changing the filter rate and make the curve steeper (seems -12dB/octave is the common 'default' rate, though -6/-18/-24/-30/-36dB/octave filter settings are also available on a lot of the 'better' ParaEQ plug-ins).

Like KLowe suggested, spectral analysis is your friend.  I would not try any limiting or compression if this is just a 2 track aud and your primary goal is to trim the low end.

Offline aegert

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Re: Reducing Bass in Post
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2008, 02:26:08 PM »
Here is a picture of a good eq with the roll off set to 50hz -12db/octave  I circled the spot in red that that change was made with:
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Offline Dede2002

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Re: Reducing Bass in Post
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2008, 04:30:57 PM »
do a spectral analysis and see where the big bump is in the bass world.
go into EQ and "flatten out the bump" to taste.....
or...just run a high pass filter and set it to 120Hz.....

A little bit off topic. Does Audacity has the Spectral Analysis feature? Maybe with some other name.
Thanks in advance ;)
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Offline KLowe

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Re: Reducing Bass in Post
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2008, 05:32:26 PM »
do a spectral analysis and see where the big bump is in the bass world.
go into EQ and "flatten out the bump" to taste.....
or...just run a high pass filter and set it to 120Hz.....

A little bit off topic. Does Audacity has the Spectral Analysis feature? Maybe with some other name.
Thanks in advance ;)

I KNOW Cool Edit Pro has spectral analysis (audacity is CEP right?)...anyways.  I've used it and it is very pretty.

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Offline intpseeker

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Re: Reducing Bass in Post
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2008, 08:00:35 PM »
I am doing some post work in Audacity that is really bass-heavy. I selected the entire set and opened the GLAME Butterworth ( ?) Highpass and ended up with this cutoff frequency (hz) setting: 341.700012 with a resonance of 0.755000.

It did what I wanted and the recording sounds really good, but I don't have a freaking clue what the settings are.

Folks have talked about cutting out anything below 40, so any idea what these settings mean?
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Offline Sunday Driver

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Re: Reducing Bass in Post
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2008, 08:45:44 PM »
do a spectral analysis and see where the big bump is in the bass world.
go into EQ and "flatten out the bump" to taste.....
or...just run a high pass filter and set it to 120Hz.....

A little bit off topic. Does Audacity has the Spectral Analysis feature? Maybe with some other name.
Thanks in advance ;)

I KNOW Cool Edit Pro has spectral analysis (audacity is CEP right?)...anyways.  I've used it and it is very pretty.



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Offline T.J.

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Re: Reducing Bass in Post
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2008, 09:22:45 PM »
Did I ever say how much I love this freakin' site?  ;D

Okay, I think I have a better understanding about how this all works. I've never really used a spectral analysis, but after analyzing a couple sections where there is heavy bass it appears my "spikes" occur b/w 40-60Hz. So I set the Q equalizer in Wavelab to 50Hz and -12dB (please check out the attached image to let me know if I did have the settings right). That sounded pretty good because it cut the bass causing the muddy sound, I think  :P I tried a couple other settings (50Hz and -6dB / 60Hz and -12dB / 120Hz and -12dB). They all yielded different results. Since my "spikes" were occurring around 50Hz, I think I'm going to stick with that.

My questions are:

-For people who use Wavelab: Am I doing this correctly?
-Is 50Hz and -12dB considered a "modest rolloff"?
-I think I understand what I'm looking for in the Hz "spikes" on the spectral analysis. How can I determine what kind of db slope to use by looking at the spectral analysis?
-I guess this is technically considered applying EQ?

Thanks for all the advise so far. +T's.
It's just another case of trial and error with no right or wrong answer....just like everything else involved in this hobby  ;D
« Last Edit: March 26, 2008, 09:32:17 PM by T.J. »

Offline KLowe

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Re: Reducing Bass in Post
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2008, 09:28:49 PM »
yes....that is considered EQ.  ;D....and I REALLY hope you learn that EQ is not a bad word.  If faced with the choice of listening to "mud" b/c that is was the room sounded like or listening to an EQ'd tape that is balanced....then your damn right I'm gonna EQ (everytime).

also....I don't consider -12db to kill mud that bad.  I usually chop off anything below 40hz on principal.  Then I adjust the "mud" to what my ears like.  It may only be -3db or -20....but I generally play around with bumps in the mid/highs and cuts in the lows.  I screw around with it until it sounds "right" (whatever that may be to you).

I release tapes into the free world.  If people like em...then hells yeah.  If they don't....then I'll gladly hook em up with the masters and they can do what they please.

most imp...have fun with it.

KLowe
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Offline RobertNC

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Re: Reducing Bass in Post
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2008, 10:15:06 PM »
Going forward, I suggest you give the on-board low cut filter of the 722 at least a try for any kind of amplified recording. 

At first I was really reluctant to try it it myself.  One because I kind of agree with Moke on the -12dB slope seeming a little steep.  Two because I also labored under the concept of you can always take away later.

But once I got over my initial trepidation and decided to try it at a show, I was really pleased with the results.  The 722 gives you a mixed analog/digital filter.   I run  it at the minimum setting -12dB/40Hz.  The first -6dB at 40 Hz is in the pre-amp stage, all the rest is in digital.  But wow!  That first analog pole really seems to put the 722 in a sweet spot.

For the stuff I tape - Dead Family and electric bluegrass mostly - I feel like the onboard filter really cleans up my recordings without stepping on the low end at all.  I have not recorded a show without the low cut filter since I started using it.

Give it a try some time.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2008, 10:17:01 PM by RobertNC »
SD:  Microtech Gefell M210 > Silver Clad XLRs > SD722
LD:                   ADK A51 TL > Silver Clad XLRs > SD722
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Offline BayTaynt3d

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Re: Reducing Bass in Post
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2008, 11:58:35 PM »
Why do it during recording when you've got much more control in post?

Isn't the only reason to do this related to if you're overloading? If you're not overloading, why not wait?
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Offline RobertNC

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Re: Reducing Bass in Post
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2008, 10:18:56 AM »
I don't know enough about how pre-amps, capacitor coupled filters, etc work to be able to give any kind of scientific explanation.

But for the kind of music I record, to my ears, I think the low cut filter on the 722 sounds better than the same amount of low cut done in post.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2008, 10:40:45 AM by RobertNC »
SD:  Microtech Gefell M210 > Silver Clad XLRs > SD722
LD:                   ADK A51 TL > Silver Clad XLRs > SD722
Guns:               DPA 4017    > Silver Clad XLRs > SD722

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Offline T.J.

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Re: Reducing Bass in Post
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2008, 10:30:17 AM »
Thanks for the opinions Robert. It has crossed my mind to use the on board low cut on the 722. I agree that you can lock into the 722's "sweet spot" when using it as an all-in-one box. Case in point would be running my levels peaking around -7 to -9dB at 24bit (I guess this goes without saying with other recorders doing 24 bit too). I am hesitant to try it because I am affraid my recording *may* not have enught bass bump when all's said and done.  

Do you think band or venue ultimately influence your decision to run the low cut filter? I have a couple specific bands and venues where I think it could be beneficial, just trying to gauge your opinion.


 

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