Topic: Retired Taper needing advice to get back up to speed

[braweave]

so, its been quite a few years (sold all my stuff in late 2004) and i'm seriously considering getting back into the game.

I had a few questions about some of the new Digital recorders.

#1 with the Sound Devices 702/722 or the Marantz pmd660/pmd671 is there not a need for an a/d anymore? (I.e. can I go Mics > Pre > device and not have to worry about the A/D?) [Side note: Yes I know that the 702/722 has an internal pre]

#2 If the above is correct, is there really a difference between the A/D on the 702/722 and the Marantz recorders??

#3 On the 702/722 How long can I expect the battery to last if I am running it with the internal pre?

#4 How much does a used Mp2, V2, and V3 Run these days?

#5 How do you power the 702/722 and the Marantz?

Thanks again, as I said its been forever since I have taped and really am a little behind on the new digital recorders.

THanks,
Brandon

[dean]

Can't comment on any of your gear questions, but two suggestions:
1.  Change your sig line.   
2.  Change your avatar back to that hot line of beach volleyball you used to run with.   

Welcome back!

[braweave]

Can't comment on any of your gear questions, but two suggestions:
1.  Change your sig line.   
2.  Change your avatar back to that hot line of beach volleyball you used to run with.   

Welcome back!

lol that old avatar was from the 2004 olympics beach volleyball. I have no idea where I found it. Do old avatar's get archived on here?

[dean]

Can't comment on any of your gear questions, but two suggestions:
1.  Change your sig line.   
2.  Change your avatar back to that hot line of beach volleyball you used to run with.   

Welcome back!

lol that old avatar was from the 2004 olympics beach volleyball. I have no idea where I found it. Do old avatar's get archived on here?

If it was on the potential avatars thread it's there.  I wasn't really serious about that.  Google image search would take care of it.  It always used to be a guilty pleasure reading your posts because of that, though.   

[caymanreview]

i did the same as you, i hadnt taped in a few years and just made a comeback early this summer. alot of new options out there these days!

#1- while i cant comment on the a/d of the 7xx machines, i think everyone agrees that the marantz 671 a/d is pretty good. i have an oade acm mod 671, and Doug chose to leave the a/d alone so that says something to me. but i havent seen too many people running pre > 671. most here run either oade acm mod, or digital input

#2 + #3- cant comment, never owned a 7xx

#4- havent seen many mp2s used fs lately but off the top of my head i think they have been about 400 or so. seems v2s are running ~700 and V3s have been running ~900 depending on opti mod or oade mod options

#5- i power my 671 with 8 internal AA's and get 6+ hrs at 24/48 using phantom, and have just started doing 24/96 and the runtime is about half ive been told but i havent tested it yet. i carry 3 sets of AA's and swap at set breaks just to be safe, or run 24/48 for long one set shows. it also can be powered by the cheap dvd batts available on ebay for ~15$ shipped, and will run forever on those. it switches from external to internal power seamlessly so running both would be optimal for festys and stuff. cant remember the exact voltages it accepts for external at the moment


my only real complaint about the 671 is the gain knob setup. the knob within a knob is kind of awkward. its ok when taping the same band all the time but im always at a new venue and seeing a new band each time for the most part, and adjustments and a pita untill you get used to it.

personally i would grab a used V3 and grab a recorder with digi in. im sure there are cheaper options for digi in with all the new stuff out that im not familiar with. ive been extremely happy with my ACM 671 tapes all year, i seem to get really consistent recordings all around with my 463's more so than any other setup ive ran. Ive got the 4 channel bug tho, and will be upgrading in the next few months to something else as im tired of trying to line up a post show matrix

[Patrick]

Good to see you getting back in the game Brandon.  Don't be a stranger to Bloomington either!  Lots of changes since you've left   Most of them good too.  Come on back around.

I'm also not in shape to answer questions but you know.... I'm sure some of our other great members will be of more help.

[stevetoney]

#1 with the Sound Devices 702/722 or the Marantz pmd660/pmd671 is there not a need for an a/d anymore? (I.e. can I go Mics > Pre > device and not have to worry about the A/D?) [Side note: Yes I know that the 702/722 has an internal pre]

All of the recording devices you've mentioned (including the PMD661, which is 24bit and you didn't mention) are so called all-in-one devices.  That means that the recorder incorporates the preamp, the ADC, and the recorder into a single box.  99% of the discussion about the recorders centers around the sound.  In fact, I don't recall seeing any discussion about any of the recorders related to whether one does ADC any better or worse than the other.  I'd have to say that the ADCs of all of them do the job. 

#2 If the above is correct, is there really a difference between the A/D on the 702/722 and the Marantz recorders??

Don't really know the answer to this.  Suspect that if there's a difference, it might not be all that noticeable in terms of sonics, but I just don't know.

#3 On the 702/722 How long can I expect the battery to last if I am running it with the internal pre?

The 702 does alot better on juice than the 722, unless you don't run the internal harddrive on the 722.  The big battery (I think it's 7200mah) runs the 702 for about 8 hours.  The same battery runs the 722 for about 5 hours.
 

#4 How much does a used Mp2, V2, and V3 Run these days?

MP2; 350 - 450
V2; 600 -700
V3; 850-950

#5 How do you power the 702/722 and the Marantz?

I assume you mean remotely...the 7xx uses either the M or L series battery that Sony makes.  The M series have a smaller footprint and don't power it for as long, but since I own a Sony PC100 video camera, it really came in handy having batteries that powered both my camera and the 7xx.  If you don't have any batteries, the L series are the ones you want to buy.  People bitch about the el cheapo brands you buy off of ebay.  Personally, I've had good luck with them because I buy several and always have backups.  The people that bitch only have one or two and then they get stuck when the battery fails.  Yeah, the el cheapo have a higher and quicker failure rate, but what the hell...they cost 1/3 the price, so I can afford it if they crap out.

One very attractive option is to use 7.2V RC car batteries.  People get a dummy cell off of ebay to do this.  This is a blank cartridge with the same footprint as the batteries, so the dummy cell slides right into the battery slot.   The connector on the dummy cell is then replaced with a Tamiya-type connector which is the connector used on the RC batteries.  These batts are cheap and they're everywhere you look on ebay in very nice capacities. 

[edtyre]

Check out an Oade modded Edirol R-44. Good enough to run my schoeps directly
into with a great sound, add a V-3 in front for stellar sound. Half the price of the Sound Devices
units and runs for 12 hours on a 12.00 ebay DVD battery. It's also 4 channels for your
board/aud matrix needs. Lots of TS'ers running these.

[daspyknows]

Welcome back. I came out of retirement in May and its great being back.  Duted off my MK4s and have my R Box refurbished.  I bought a Tascam DR-100 and I'm good to go.

[schoepsnbox]

Welcome back. I came out of retirement in May and its great being back.  Duted off my MK4s and have my R Box refurbished.  I bought a Tascam DR-100 and I'm good to go.

Glad to have you back on the scene..look forward to linking up soon. PM sent..

Oh and another endorsement for the R-44..great 4 channel unit..

[page]

#3 On the 702/722 How long can I expect the battery to last if I am running it with the internal pre?

The 702 does alot better on juice than the 722, unless you don't run the internal harddrive on the 722.  The big battery (I think it's 7200mah) runs the 702 for about 8 hours.  The same battery runs the 722 for about 5 hours.

I don't think I agree with that on the 722 side, you might be using backlights or have heavier drawing mics might be the discrepancy. With a 7600mah battery, I'm getting upwards of 6, almost 7 hours running P48 and both CF/INHDD. It depends on what your mics are drawing for power is part of it. By my math, I can run 4 75min sets if I turn it off between sets. I've pulled 3 full 90min sets, transfered stuff that evening a couple of times and it was down to around 7.0/6.9v (unit dies at 6.6 or 6.5 I think. Fully charged battery is 8.1/8.2v).

#5 How do you power the 702/722 and the Marantz?

I assume you mean remotely...the 7xx uses either the M or L series battery that Sony makes.  The M series have a smaller footprint and don't power it for as long, but since I own a Sony PC100 video camera, it really came in handy having batteries that powered both my camera and the 7xx.  If you don't have any batteries, the L series are the ones you want to buy.  People bitch about the el cheapo brands you buy off of ebay.  Personally, I've had good luck with them because I buy several and always have backups.  The people that bitch only have one or two and then they get stuck when the battery fails.  Yeah, the el cheapo have a higher and quicker failure rate, but what the hell...they cost 1/3 the price, so I can afford it if they crap out.

One very attractive option is to use 7.2V RC car batteries.  People get a dummy cell off of ebay to do this.  This is a blank cartridge with the same footprint as the batteries, so the dummy cell slides right into the battery slot.   The connector on the dummy cell is then replaced with a Tamiya-type connector which is the connector used on the RC batteries.  These batts are cheap and they're everywhere you look on ebay in very nice capacities.
[/quote]

Another option is to pickup the Hirose connector and run 12v on the external. If it's mission critical, or you'd be ultra-pissed if you lost power, then you can run both the 12v and the 7.2v at the same time for redundancy.

[scb]

a 702 or 722 should be all you need.  i've considered selling my pre and a/d to just run my 722, and the only reason I haven't is pretty much because I'm lazy

but I run straight 722 probably half the time I record anything and I'm very happy with it.  and the battery will definitely last long enough for anything you need to do

[Church-Audio]

Can't comment on any of your gear questions, but two suggestions:
1.  Change your sig line.   
2.  Change your avatar back to that hot line of beach volleyball you used to run with.   

Welcome back!

lol that old avatar was from the 2004 olympics beach volleyball. I have no idea where I found it. Do old avatar's get archived on here?

This one will do quite nicely.

[braweave]

thanks for all of the advice all. I appreciate it.

Hoping the tax refund is nice and large so that I can do this sooner rather than later

[DigitalIndigo]

Not sure everything got answered, but I'll try.

#1 with the Sound Devices 702/722 or the Marantz pmd660/pmd671 is there not a need for an a/d anymore? (I.e. can I go Mics > Pre > device and not have to worry about the A/D?) [Side note: Yes I know that the 702/722 has an internal pre]

I'm not as familiar with the Marantz units (not owning one), but I'll assume the others are right.  Simple answer is that these units have very good pre-amp A/D units, and most people that run them seem to just run the mics right into them.  However, as with everything, there are some people that prefer to front them with an outboard A/D, such as a V2 or V3.

#2 If the above is correct, is there really a difference between the A/D on the 702/722 and the Marantz recorders??

I believe they are both highly regarded.  Without starting a flame war, I think the Sound Devices A/D and pre-amp are considered pretty pristine, while it seems some people complain the Marantz pre-amp is a bit noisy.  This can be fixed, though.

#3 On the 702/722 How long can I expect the battery to last if I am running it with the internal pre?

Short answer: hours.  The 702/722 use camcorder batteries, and depending on the size, you can get many, many hours out of them.  More importantly, since they are so small, it's easy to carry several spares, and swapping them out only takes a few seconds.  I could probably record for the better part of a day on three good sized batteries (I'd probably run out of storage first).

#4 How much does a used Mp2, V2, and V3 Run these days?

No idea.  I'd suggest checking the Yard Sale for the most accurate, up to date information.

#5 How do you power the 702/722 and the Marantz?

Marantz runs on 4 AA's; 702/722 on camcorder batteries.  The usual methods to extend time apply, but again, it seems pointless for the 702/722 given the ease of swapping batteries.

[su6oxone]

I run Schoeps directly into a 702 for open and a stock 661 for low-pro shows (and sometimes for open shows also) and think the results have been pretty good.  Sounds nice, lows are pretty well defined, noise is low, and overall excellent all-in-one recorders.  With a Sony 6600mAh L-series battery I get some 9 hours with phantom on, 24bit/44.1khz, and with LEDs/LCD on.  With Sanyo 2700mAh rechargeable AAs I get about 5 hours with phantom on, 24bit/44.1khz, LEDs on, and LCD on power save.  Check out some of my recordings on LMA to see what they sound like, but IMO you can't go wrong with either (or better yet, both!).

[Big Perm]

I've run schoepsMK4>Nbox>671 many times, sounds great...however at the moment i'm really enjoying the nbox>apogee mme>671...gain control is a pain, but the sound is killer...if in a location that using the trim knobs is just going to be too tough i use the internal a/d inside 671 and really like the results

i also ran km140>oade 148> 671 for several years and also was happy with the a/d inside the unit.. I say go for it.
my only complant about the machine is mine is picky about what CF cards it will format...a pain, but not that big of a deal

good luck
bp