Topic: Clarity of lyrics...

[Tall Adam]

let me preface this by saying this may be a stupid question but please dont -T me.

why is it that i can never understand what people are singing at louder shows but when i listen to the same show on tape, i can understand every word? my thought on this goes along the lines of at head level, midranges are mangled by all the people around you singing, talking etc, mics are above this midrange hubub and thus clearer mids? i dunno...thats all i had. anyone else know what im talking about even, let alone explain it?

[nickgregory]

the music always sounds clearer to me when I listen to it at home.  part of it is because I wear earplugs at most shows, but even those that I dont..I think that the combination of the mics being over head level and just so many other things at a show hitting the senses, the tapes always sound clearer to me...

[Brian]

my thought on this goes along the lines of at head level, midranges are mangled by all the people around you singing, talking etc, mics are above this midrange hubub and thus clearer mids?

nailed right on the head there IMO! +t.  high frequencies are affected as well. 

[Tall Adam]

thats what i figured but i could have been way off.
i think that thats part of the reason why i can be really satisfied with my tapes even when i know theyre fine but not great by any means. I go home and hear things on my tapes that i didnt even notice when i was at the real show. i mean of course the atmosphere cant be there when im at home, but being able to know what people are saying between songs, what a certain guitar solo sounds like, or what the words are to a new song is kinda nice sometimes (or not so much occasionally) 
thanks yall +T on me

[Chuck]

I notice this all the time when recording very loud bands.

I think there is a bit of Fletcher-Munson that figures into this.
The way we hear things changes with volume, masking mid-range frequencies.
When you listen to it at home, the volume isn't as loud.

[Brian]

yes but in a live setting the FOH man adjusts the volumes so that we hear the music evenly.  or at least that is what they attempt to do. 

oh wait.....i guess you were referring to the differences in volume at the show than when playing back.   however the recording is what was picked up by the microphones.  microphone's "fletcher munson curve", if you will,  is it's frequency response chart which is much different than the fletcher munson curves describing hte human ear.

[Chuck]

yes but in a live setting the FOH man adjusts the volumes so that we hear the music evenly.  or at least that is what they attempt to do. 

oh wait.....i guess you were referring to the differences in volume at the show than when playing back.   however the recording is what was picked up by the microphones.  microphone's "fletcher munson curve" is it's frequency response chart which is much different than the fletcher munson curves describing hte human ear.

Microphones don't have the Fletcher-Munson effect, so they capture what it "really" sounds like, regardless of volume.

[Brian]

yes,  which is what i was saying hence the quotes around "fletcher munson" and the "if you will" statement

ha i'm an idiot.....i didn't say if you will, but meant too

[Tim]

you two dorks are saying the same thing

[Brian]

you two dorks are saying the same thing

and you just said what i said.........we are all dorks

AUDIO GEEK-OUT AUDIO GEEK-OUT!!!!!!

[Nick in Edinboro]

Great thread.  +T I've often wondered why this was the case at shows I've taped and was never sure what to attribute it to.

[rustoleum]

Are you guys sure we're not just talking about the effect of directional microphones blocking out the sound of music bouncing off walls and muddying it up?

Cup your hands around your ears at a show sometime and the lyrics and music sound a lot clearer... I used to have to do this at Phish shows to hear more clearly what the keyword was during Makisupa Policeman.   I suppose there is probably more to it than just directionality of the mics (as indicated by this "Fletcher Munson" thing), but try this experiment at a show sometime and see if you notice the lyrics are any clearer. 

[Chuck]

The phenomenon that I experience is different than just the directionality of the microphones.
I've cuped my hands around my ears and noticed the effects of that. Especially after Dan Healy left the Grateful Dead and John Cutler was running sound. I had to cup my ears at every show, from the section, just to hear anything. 

[Brian]

Cup your hands around your ears at a show sometime and the lyrics and music sound a lot clearer... I used to have to do this at Phish shows to hear more clearly what the keyword was during Makisupa Policeman.   I suppose there is probably more to it than just directionality of the mics (as indicated by this "Fletcher Munson" thing), but try this experiment at a show sometime and see if you notice the lyrics are any clearer. 

this happens because when you cup your hands around your ears there is about a 3dB boost roughly between 1kHz and 3kHz.  These are where higher frequencies from vocals, keys, guitars, and horns, appear in the total spectrum of audible frequencies of humans.   Thus it's compensating for all that midrange mud that may occur while on the floor of an arena concert for example.

[Tye]

I've always noticed that I can hear loud bands better with earplugs our just plugging my ears with my fingers.
I just thought that the human ear could not take such high decibles and that was why.
I've also notice on shows that I have taped when you cup your ears you hear the sterreo image much clearer.
 I do think the mics being above the normal room noise does help.
                                   +T good question