Topic: Help improving onstage recording...

[Tall Adam]

guitar amp is a marshall cab and head (standard 4X12 cab) not kicked back or on a stand (aka sitting on floor)

bass cabs (not sure on amp) if i remember correctly were a 2X15 cab lying on its side with another one (or maybe a 2X12) standing vertically ontop of it. kinda like 2 rectangles, 1 the wide way on the floor, the other the long way ontop of it.

there is actually probably even less space between the guitar amp and bass drum than show in the diagram, id say it was maybe 6" tops. no space for bass frequencies to get past that wall of noise between the bass drum and the guitar amp.

hope that helps...

[Simp-Dawg]

can you hang from the ceiling?

[Tall Adam]

heres the 2 cunnundrums (sp) with that: there are only 2 objects on the ceiling which would be mountable. 1 is a set of four track lights, i doubt mgmt at the bar would be too happy if i ran from those. 2 is a steel beam about half way back in the bar. its centered well (or as well as it can be in a weird space like that) but wayne really wants these recordings clean and im afraid if i tried to mount from it I would get people chattering and cup noise from the bar and thus ruin his intent (sale of these sets). so... to simply answer, no there isnt really a ceiling option, its pretty much what you see in the diagram....

[Tall Adam]

one last bump before the show tonight (i leave at 9). currently i plan to run omni's, either AB spaced about 1 foot, or NOS style. (but im also considering cards, ORTF) either way, i plan to run at about 5' angled downwards slightly.

[Tim]

take some pictures tonight and post them

[Tall Adam]

will do, ill borrow the GF's digi if she lets me

[coop]

try to convince the band to move the bass cabinet,  it wouldn't hurt to try it.
      coop

[Tall Adam]

well they did w/o any of my convincing. bass cab was diagonally behind the drummer. (cab is a 2X15 and a 1X12 or 15)

i ran NOS style omnis first set, and ORTF second, both around 4.5', angled down. i have a guess that ortf will sound better, but havent listened yet. bass player cranked it a bit (infact the first track of set 1 was too bass heavy imo)

thanks for all the help guys. +ts, pictures, and samples to come tommorow, now though, bed

[Tall Adam]

pictures from last night. still havent listened so i have yet to know which i like better.

[Evil Taper]

What about adding another mic or 2 to the mix set up closer to the bass cab?  Maybe a spacial mix of 4 mics 1 near each player?

[Chanher]

What about adding another mic or 2 to the mix set up closer to the bass cab?  Maybe a spacial mix of 4 mics 1 near each player?

exactly what I was thinking. I have been meaning to try one of my sm57's into the the rca input of my ua-5 for this very purpose. leegeddy can make you some sick xlr > rca 20 footers, sm57's can be had for <$100 on ebay. radio shack has the tiny desktop mic stands that are perfect for a cab on the floor. run the 57 directly infront of the cab. get some cheap isolating headphones (see retail forum) to adjust the mix and you are ready to make some sick recordings.

if you don't feel like dropping cash for one gig then maybe you could just take the bass players line out of his amp and run it into the ua-5 rca in. I would still recommend isolating headphones, I've attempted many a mix with regular phones and it was so hard mixing virtually right next to where the band was playing.

+t for going to extra lengths to help out a band.

[Tall Adam]

i have an sm57 and the cables to do it quite easily actually...and somewhat isolating headphones...so i may try this this week. but i think the bass has improved (and certainly will w/ my 391s which are 20-20k, not 40-20k)

i could run sm57 > xlr to 1/4 > rca adapter > rca splitter >r/l ua5 back. not the slickest combo, but would work w/o much lost signal.


all that said...wayne wants to meet me in the city to play me some of the old tapes cuz hes not satisfied with mine  im sorry, but C4s arent gonna sound like schoeps (what the previous taper used) no matter what. hopefully hell like the 391s more.

[Chanher]

I've always liked the saying that a crappy rig in the right location will sound better than a great rig in a crappy location. if you're able to dial in the mix just right, I predict you will have some smokin recordings whether you're using c4's, 390's, or shoepes.

If you're gonna have more than one gig with these guys, I would experiment a little. After trying cards, try some spaced omni's, maybe that will help with having "too much stereo seperation" as Wayne said. there's no phase issues with omni's, but maybe try to get one kinda close to drums and the other kinda close to guitar amp. I'm outta my league here with this, so if someone has better omni suggestions that would work with the strange stage setup please chime in.

[Tall Adam]

did some omni stuff, spaced NOS style, didnt love it. a little too dull and lacking the crispness of the cards that i like (though in general i like the C4 omnis) i just keep on keepin on, he has no intention of canning me for this gig that i know of, and im getting paid either way, so i feel free to experiment

[Chanher]

nice! well keep up the good work...