Topic: Soundboard question

[Tim]

You say the recording came out just fine. I have no idea what type of band you taped, but with stereo XLR, don't you have guitars too low in the mix and the vocals and drumkick a bit too high? That usually is how the soundboard is set to get the best sound in the venue (at a metal gig).
It doesn't matter much wether I record with XLR/Jack or just minidisc straight into the soundboard, but that seems to be the problem over and over. Somebody has any experience in handling this?

I don't like SBD feeds in small clubs. They are running in mono, have a lot of stage volume, and as someone stated above the vocals are way up in the mix.

I was recording a classic rock band with a 30+ piece symphony in a 2000 seat theater.  The larger the venue, the better the SBD, or at least it seems to be the case.

this is true. Think of the job of the PA as that of "Sound reinforcement".

In a small club you're going to get vocals and drums heavy in the mix as these are what need to be "reinforced" over the stage volume of loud guitar amps.

In a bigger venue stage volume will not carry as far so all instruments and vocals will be present in the mix.

FWIW - in small clubs, if everything is mic'd you may be able to grab an open AUX feed from the board and make your own mix just for the tape. You need a Pre-fader AUX send so your mix isn't affected by the engineers moving of the faders. If you know the band well enough to arrive at soundcheck and get patched in this is a good way to grab a great board feed in a small club. Let the engineer do his job and then have the band play a song or two for you to mix the tape feed.

I did this a LOT when I was first taping analog. I got to know the bands and the engineer at my local club really well this way. It also taught me how to put together a mix before I ever had to think about eq, compression etc. It gave me a good foundation to start doing FOH work and eventually I was a house engineer at that same club.

[fey-metallica]

In a small club you're going to get vocals and drums heavy in the mix as these are what need to be "reinforced" over the stage volume of loud guitar amps.

In a bigger venue stage volume will not carry as far so all instruments and vocals will be present in the mix.

FWIW - in small clubs, if everything is mic'd you may be able to grab an open AUX feed from the board and make your own mix just for the tape. You need a Pre-fader AUX send so your mix isn't affected by the engineers moving of the faders. If you know the band well enough to arrive at soundcheck and get patched in this is a good way to grab a great board feed in a small club. Let the engineer do his job and then have the band play a song or two for you to mix the tape feed.

You are saying I need a pre-fader aux send. This doesn't make a perfect mix all the time if I'm correct? When recording the monitor I would be dependable on the bands preferences, for example when a vocalist only want guitar on the right side that will be highly noticable in the recording as well won't it? Also, for pre-fader aux send I would need jack instead of XLR? I'm not into recording SBD for a long time, I'm just learning as we speak.

[Tim]

If you get an open pre-fader aux send (ie. one not being used for band's monitors) you can make your own mix.

Depends on the mixer, probably need either rca's or a trs 1/4 inch. Someone correct me if I'm wrong

[Church-Audio]

If you get an open pre-fader aux send (ie. one not being used for band's monitors) you can make your own mix.

Depends on the mixer, probably need either rca's or a trs 1/4 inch. Someone correct me if I'm wrong

An aux send is ok if the sound guy is in the ball.. I would ask for a pre fader Aux mix.. That way you get his fader moves in the mix. But this assumes he has the time or the Will to do a discrete mix for you. Its always better in some cases to just take a left and right out of the console. That way you get his "final" product. That in it self is no guarantee of a quality mix but it would be better then a no-mind aux mix from a sound engineer that really does not give a shit about your recording. On the other hand a "super tech" that can wear headphones a dial a mix in quickly for you would be better then any left right mix.

I have always felt good mics are always your most likely source for a good recording. I know when I mix I am not always going to have everything in the mix in proportion because the monitors may be loud and I dont need as much keyboard out front or it might be that the lead guitar is loud off stage so I have him off in the house mix.. This happens all the time in small bar gigs but in large gigs. I usually have everything going thru and the mix from the board is usually spot on. Something to consider when your thinking about getting a board feed. I would ask my self the question is the venue big enough for everything to be going thru the console if the answer is yes then you might end up with a good recording if not maybe your better off with just mics.

Chris

[Tim]

yeah in a big room, take the left and right out. I was talking about bars where the mix is screwy but where you can get to know the engineer well. I had free reign at a few clubs for years, it was great!

[intpseeker]

I recorded NRPS in Richmond Tuesday night off the SBD, mostly out of laziness. I had my mic rig, and so did Lynnz, and we almost pulled out and went for it FOB, but the ease of not guarding a stand won us over that night.
Wish we had gone with our instincts and ran mics, because the SBD, while crystal clear, has the vocals punched up far too loudly compared to the instruments. It's simple, the backline amps pushed out enough gain from the stage that they were not pulled into the PA as much as the vocals. Also, no compression was used on the vocals, and that would have tamed them in the SBD feed.

Skarecrow offered the SB to me in Fall River at the NRPS gig and I declined wanting to play with my 451's. The SB was taken by a good guy with a Korg 1000, and the detail I noticed during the show was that Buddy Cage's  peddle steel and the vocals were a little lost in the audience mix, while they were right up front in the crystal clear SB recording.

So why didn't the audience hear what the soundboard did?