Author Topic: Microtracker vs. R-9 (Read 9580 times)

twoheadedboy · « **on:** June 18, 2006, 12:42:17 PM »

I record analog in (Sonic Studios mic > Sonic Studios preamp > recording device) and generally make recordings for my own CD-audio use. I plan on upgrading to one of the two listed recorders, but am not sure about which will be better for me. I want to use the highest format possible for archiving and will downsample. This would point to the MT and I prefer CF to SD as well, however I've heard the analog in is far superior on the R-9 and has less bugs overall (though hopefully by the time I get a new device the MT would have the bugs worked out). Would I be better off with the R-9 and it's ability to only do 24/48, or would it benefit me to get the MT for full 24/96?

schoff · « **Reply #1 on:** June 18, 2006, 01:28:37 PM »

Quote from: twoheadedboy on June 18, 2006, 12:42:17 PM

(though hopefully by the time I get a new device the MT would have the bugs worked out).

Though I wouldn`t hold my breath on that point. Sent my Microtracker back last week. Here`s hoping the R-09 is better and user friendly otherwise it`s the Walkman MZ RH1 for me. Plugged my set of my 853R into a friends Walkman and was very impressed with the quality

dallman · « **Reply #2 on:** June 19, 2006, 01:53:45 AM »

I have used my MT for many months now. I have a 5gb microdrive and a 2gb CF card. I use all the inputs, depending on stealth, portable w UA 5 or not. My only errors have been user error, and fortunately too often or damaging. There were bugs, in early firmware, but it was usually easy to get around these as they were well documented by all of the users as we were all getting our hands around the unit. As with any recording system, it is always easy to do something wrong. (Murphy was a well known taper) The newest firmware seems to have ironed out all the issues. I cannot think of a better deal for the money. I am really pleased with it.

guysonic · « **Reply #3 on:** June 19, 2006, 02:49:59 AM »

R-09 has JUST gotten into taper's hands and needs real user experience and some careful electronic bench testing before performance/feature comparisons can be made as what's the best model choice for certain purposes.

Should have one for bench testing within the next few days, and hope to do a a short review similar to one done on the MT deck posted on my site. Review will be from recordists viewpoint who uses external stereo microphone directly into the deck, or maybe with external analog LINE level preamplifier if deck's preamplifier proves a bit noisy as is case for MT deck for acoustic recording purposes using low output type mics.

poorlyconditioned · « **Reply #4 on:** June 19, 2006, 04:48:37 AM »

Quote from: guysonic on June 19, 2006, 02:49:59 AM

R-09 has JUST gotten into taper's hands and needs real user experience and some careful electronic bench testing before performance/feature comparisons can be made as what's the best model choice for certain purposes.

Should have one for bench testing within the next few days, and hope to do a a short review similar to one done on the MT deck posted on my site. Review will be from recordists viewpoint who uses external stereo microphone directly into the deck, or maybe with external analog LINE level preamplifier if deck's preamplifier proves a bit noisy as is case for MT deck for acoustic recording purposes using low output type mics.

+T Sounds good. I'm looking forward to this. I'm off to your site to read the MT review now...

Richard

Studiodawg · « **Reply #5 on:** June 19, 2006, 08:07:10 AM »

I've been using my R-09 for a couple weeks and need to tell ya that its fidelity is stunning. It has held up well in slightly windy conditions much to my surprise. I've recorded acoustic music (fiddle, banjo, upright bass, mandolin) by setting the R-09 in the middle of the group on a chair...and recorded a freight train at point blank range...my wife likes the recordings which to me is a "seal of approval". I'm glad I got the R-09 as it serves its purpose in my recording world...I keep it in a digital camera case on my belt "just in case".

ghostyroasty · « **Reply #6 on:** June 19, 2006, 10:35:22 AM »

Can anyone tell me a good reason to get the R-09 over the Microtrack? I've been going back and forth over the past couple of days trying to figure out which one to get. I'll be using which ever one I get for recording my Jazz band live off of the mic that comes with either one, and recording my Music classes during their concerts off of the mixing board. I'd also like to be able to forgo the mixing board and just have a couple mics hooked in via a small mic preamp (I heard the Microtrack doesn't give the full 48x for Phantom) ... So if anyone can help me out, I'd be grateful! By the way, first post here... I love reading the topics here!

SunWizard · « **Reply #7 on:** June 19, 2006, 11:21:24 AM »

Here are the main advantages of the R-09:

R-09 uses 2-AA rechargable batteries, easy to swap instead of the built in Microtracker battery which if it runs out you got to recharge or hook up an external battery.
R-09 has a better preamp.
R-09 has better sounding built-in mics.
R-09 display is brighter and sharper.

Advantages of the Microtracker (MT):
MT uses CF cards which are available in 8GB sizes (but are very expensive), the R-09 uses SD with a limit of 4GB currently.
MT can do max 24/96, the R-09 can do max 24/48 which is what most use even on the MT.

bgalizio · « **Reply #8 on:** June 19, 2006, 11:30:52 AM »

Microtrack has a digital input. The R-09 does not.

ghostyroasty · « **Reply #9 on:** June 19, 2006, 11:31:13 AM »

Ok... Explain this for me, so I can get a better grasp.. Say I want to input two mics in stereo to the r-09... The inputs are only 1/8th ... So what can I use to be able to do this? I was planning on getting two AKG 1000 mics to use for recording. That's one thing I don't like about the r-09 lack of a lot of inputs.

SunWizard · « **Reply #10 on:** June 19, 2006, 11:37:20 AM »

You use a Y-cable, stereo to 2 mono 1/8 plugs, available at any Radioshack.

ghostyroasty · « **Reply #11 on:** June 19, 2006, 11:46:51 AM »

No mono for me... I'd much rather have stereo. I need something to power the two phantom mics as well.

OFOTD · « **Reply #12 on:** June 19, 2006, 11:56:33 AM »

Quote from: bgalizio on June 19, 2006, 11:30:52 AM

Microtrack has a digital input. The R-09 does not.

This to me is the single biggest reason to get the MT over the R-09 even with all the positives of the R-09.

sleepypedro · « **Reply #13 on:** June 19, 2006, 12:26:24 PM »

Quote from: ghostyroasty on June 19, 2006, 11:46:51 AM

No mono for me... I'd much rather have stereo. I need something to power the two phantom mics as well.

you misunderstand: your resulting image will be stereo. basically you're talking about adapting 2 ends into a stereo 1/8" tip.

and the AKG C1000s are self-powering, FYI.

ghostyroasty · « **Reply #14 on:** June 19, 2006, 12:29:52 PM »

Yeah, I knew that, but I'd like to have a preamp for other mics if the situation occurs. would there be a workaround for the digital inputs? Also a lot of people are downing the Microtrack... Any reasons why?? I know the internal battery is an issue, but I won't be recording over three hours. The concerts I go to only last an hour or so.

Rick · « **Reply #15 on:** June 19, 2006, 01:06:30 PM »

Quote from: OFOTD on June 19, 2006, 11:56:33 AM

Quote from: bgalizio on June 19, 2006, 11:30:52 AM
Microtrack has a digital input. The R-09 does not.

This to me is the single biggest reason to get the MT over the R-09 even with all the positives of the R-09.

well that all depends if you want to use an outboard A/D or not... I'm not planning too so I'm just waiting for 4GB cards to be supported.

rodeen · « **Reply #16 on:** June 19, 2006, 01:10:00 PM »

Quote from: ghostyroasty on June 19, 2006, 12:29:52 PM

would there be a workaround for the digital inputs? Also a lot of people are downing the Microtrack... Any reasons why??

The digital input comes into play when you patch from someone else or if you are using an external A/D converter. Basically you are using the MT as a storage device. It is a handy feature and is the way I use my MT about 95% of the time.

As to the MT bashing? I think it is pretty much agreed that the device was released prematurely. There have been lots of quirks and issue that given fairly superficial testing could have been avoided. The current firmware is substancially more stable and the devices are working well for people in a wide range of situations. Given the features and the price it is still a good value.

And only one has exploded that we know of so far!

ghostyroasty · « **Reply #17 on:** June 19, 2006, 01:16:49 PM »

Boy that is reassuring!! How about the limiter? I've heard some people recording a lot with distortion... how could it be avoided on the Microtrack besides getting the 10 db pad? As you might be able to read, I'm a newbie to recording. That might be why I'm so torn between the two!

ghostyroasty · « **Reply #18 on:** June 19, 2006, 01:30:10 PM »

oh, and I will be using it to record audio live as well... I need a great all around type deal!

Zaphod · « **Reply #19 on:** June 19, 2006, 01:33:55 PM »

Isn't the general consensus that the MT isn't good for recording analog line-in due to the fact its adds gain when run that way?

I'd say if your running digital-in the MT will suit you well, if its analog line-in go for the R-09.

it-goes-to-eleven · « **Reply #20 on:** June 19, 2006, 01:36:44 PM »

Quote from: Zaphod on June 19, 2006, 01:33:55 PM

I'd say if your running digital-in the MT will suit you well, if its analog line-in go for the R-09.

Exactly.. The only thing I just MUST add... The Microtrack BLOWS away the R-09!

sleepypedro · « **Reply #21 on:** June 19, 2006, 01:40:28 PM »

Quote from: Freelunch on June 19, 2006, 01:36:44 PM

Exactly.. The only thing I just MUST add... The Microtrack BLOWS away the R-09!

spoogles unavailable for comment...

Zaphod · « **Reply #22 on:** June 19, 2006, 01:44:01 PM »

Quote from: Freelunch on June 19, 2006, 01:36:44 PM

Quote from: Zaphod on June 19, 2006, 01:33:55 PM
I'd say if your running digital-in the MT will suit you well, if its analog line-in go for the R-09.

Exactly.. The only thing I just MUST add... The Microtrack BLOWS away the R-09!

In true Hollywood style at that!

ghostyroasty · « **Reply #23 on:** June 19, 2006, 01:49:38 PM »

Would it be safe to assume that the Microtrack is a great all around performer? Decent analog, good digital, good for live recording?

sleepypedro · « **Reply #24 on:** June 19, 2006, 01:52:37 PM »

Quote from: ghostyroasty on June 19, 2006, 01:49:38 PM

Would it be safe to assume that the Microtrack is a great all around performer? Decent analog, good digital, good for live recording?

abso-friggin-lutely not.

i don't think you could find a single person on this board -- even relatively happy MT owners -- who would say it's a "great all around performer".

if you yourself hold that opinion, you haven't read enough of the MT threads.

ghostyroasty · « **Reply #25 on:** June 19, 2006, 01:55:29 PM »

Ok then R-09, great all around with no digital?? Better?? Sleepypedro, I'll respect your word, since I've read a lot of the other posts of yours on here.

So I guess it is the R-09 for me unless someone can change my opinion!

sleepypedro · « **Reply #26 on:** June 19, 2006, 02:01:19 PM »

Quote from: ghostyroasty on June 19, 2006, 01:55:29 PM

Ok then R-09, great all around with no digital?? Better?? Sleepypedro, I'll respect your word, since I've read a lot of the other posts of yours on here. So I guess it is the R-09 for me unless someone can change my opinion!

well, i don't mean to posture as an authority, cos i'm not, but...

basically it comes down to this: if you're going to be steamed about not having a digital in, don't get an R09. BUT... if you're not going to use the digital in on your POS microtracker on a very regular basis, please banish thoughts of buying a microtracker from your head.

it's that easy.

here's more fuel for the fire, literally and figuratively: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=64648.0

SunWizard · « **Reply #27 on:** June 19, 2006, 02:08:38 PM »

Quote from: Freelunch on June 19, 2006, 01:36:44 PM

Quote from: Zaphod on June 19, 2006, 01:33:55 PM
I'd say if your running digital-in the MT will suit you well, if its analog line-in go for the R-09.

Exactly.. The only thing I just MUST add... The Microtrack BLOWS away the R-09!

I assume by the smilies that it literally "blows away" the R-09 when the microtracker explodes? Or is there a more technical reason?

ghostyroasty · « **Reply #28 on:** June 19, 2006, 02:13:59 PM »

You guys are great. I'm glad I found this place. I think I will go with the R-09 unless I see something in the next couple hours to swerve my mind yet again.... Any place to get it cheaper than $399? I want to also order the case/tripod for it, and get a dual mic preamp, or a cheap mixer to run the mics through.

dallman · « **Reply #29 on:** June 19, 2006, 06:42:50 PM »

Quote from: ghostyroasty on June 19, 2006, 01:16:49 PM

Boy that is reassuring!! How about the limiter? I've heard some people recording a lot with distortion... how could it be avoided on the Microtrack besides getting the 10 db pad? As you might be able to read, I'm a newbie to recording. That might be why I'm so torn between the two!

If you record through the 1/8" jacks, the gain is a problem. The 10db pad or any simple attenuator will solve this. I have heard people say they have problems with the TRS 1/4 " jacks too, but I think this may be partly user error. I say this for two reason (and I may still be wrong), One, it is critical that the L/M/H switch be on L, and two, the newer if not newest firmware must be in use. If you look at the measurements with that scenario in place, it seems unlikely that the TRS 1/4 " jacks would distort. They have not for me while I do need an attenuator for the 1/8" jacks.

Here are the measurements of sensitivity for the 2 inputs:
http://www.sonicstudios.com/mt2496rv.htm

It has a lot of useful data, and the measurments are down the page a bit.

Zaphod · « **Reply #30 on:** June 19, 2006, 06:54:02 PM »

I just don't get it why the hell would M-Audio make a recording device that is incapable of accepting a line level signal?

Not a whole lot of logical design went into the building of this one, but that is a rhetorical statement around these parts.

SunWizard · « **Reply #31 on:** June 19, 2006, 07:14:53 PM »

If you get mics like the AT-853s then you don't need to buy an external pre since the pre is very good in the R-09. It makes for a very portable, easy to run, high quality rig.

poorlyconditioned · « **Reply #32 on:** June 19, 2006, 08:45:56 PM »

Quote from: SunWizard on June 19, 2006, 07:14:53 PM

If you get mics like the AT-853s then you don't need to buy an external pre since the pre is very good in the R-09. It makes for a very portable, easy to run, high quality rig.

I think a lot of people are in this situation. Certainly it has got to be better than iRiver and NJB3 line in that a lot of people use.

The real question is can you get great results from better mics, or do you need an external preamp. And, if you use an external pre, is the ADC good enough. It is looking good, but I'd like to see a comparison with something else, like a stock UA5.

Richard

sleepypedro · « **Reply #33 on:** June 19, 2006, 09:00:29 PM »

Quote from: poorlyconditioned on June 19, 2006, 08:45:56 PM

if you use an external pre, is the ADC good enough. It is looking good, but I'd like to see a comparison with something else, like a stock UA5.

the ADC in the r1 was good enough for me to drop my modSBM > d combination and roll compactflash. the r09 is the same, only better! and smaller!

twoheadedboy · « **Reply #34 on:** June 19, 2006, 10:23:06 PM »

I think the R-9 is the ticket for me. I also like the AA battery capability, forgot about that. I have no great investment in CF cards to worry about, hopefully the R-15 (or whatever) adds 96khz ability and stays with SD cards

willndmb · « **Reply #35 on:** June 19, 2006, 11:07:19 PM »

if the r09 had dig in it would def take the cake, for some reason i don't like to go analog into the recorder
reminds me of my MD days

BC · « **Reply #36 on:** June 20, 2006, 12:19:59 AM »

Quote from: Zaphod on June 19, 2006, 01:33:55 PM

I'd say if your running digital-in the MT will suit you well, if its analog line-in go for the R-09.

agree.

balou2 · « **Reply #37 on:** June 20, 2006, 03:11:27 AM »

Check out the HUGELY LONG Microtrack threads in this section if you want detailed accounts of its potential. The R9 has not been out long enough to offer full-on reviews yet. Really, as several people have mentioned, the digi-in is the biggest difference.

FWIW, I ran an MT for about 30 shows and NEVER ONCE had a problem. Loved the thing...it just didn't have enough options for me, but I am NOT a stealther, and need the extra options.

jlmlord · « **Reply #38 on:** July 24, 2006, 09:55:59 PM »

Gents ... my 3c's worth ... I am increasing the stakes ...
based on various recommendations found in Tapers, I purchased a R-09 ...
My conclusions so far ...

SD card: ... not explicitely stated in this column, only Sandisk and Lexar are currently supported ... bummer for cheapies ..
Nothing is written about this on the Roland support site
Software: is indeed easier and speedier to use than MT.
Power: the MT has integrated battery and an USB supply; the R-09 has separate power supply, and no integrated charger. Means you have more gear/adapters to carry, but maybe down the road the R-09 is cheaper to use ...
General construction : R-09 is OK but a little weak. I think the MT gets better marks there ...

Regarding mic input ... are you using the MT with the balanced inputs and a stereo mike ? Seems that if one uses a good quality XLR mike, this MT feature could give significantly better quality recordings ...

Well, does anybody have something to add ?

Cheers ...

mdarnton · « **Reply #39 on:** July 25, 2006, 12:27:17 AM »

I just looked around, and listened, to what was available in 1/8" plug-in power mics vs all the things in the low-Z externally powered world, and is there a question here as to which has more interesting possibilities? That's what I based my purchase on. The presence or absence of a low-quality, short-tether internal mic may or may not be important--to me it wasn't, since I intended from the start to get something better.

The other issues seem like a lot of whining, with not too much substance--for instance, so ONE MT on the face of the entire earth caught fire and scares a bunch of R09 fans silly. So what? If you can't stand to start a new file in 2 hours, that's a problem. It's certainly not a big one for me, and, I suspect, not for most people. The hysteria over the MT is really amusing, I think.

I've used my MT with SE1a and MXL 990 mics (and AT3032s, which don't need a full 48V anyway) with no problem at all, in spite of the theoretical voltage problem.

I'd be interested in what the R09 folks mean, substantively, in saying their box blows away the MT, *including*, especially, if any of them have ever actually used both and therefore are qualified to say anything on the issue. I haven't seen any reports yet that say anything substantive about the R09, beyond the usual bunch of cheerleading by people who have to convince themselves they bought the right thing, but there's some solid tests of the MT if you look around. It will be interesting to have some real comparisons, if someone does them.

guysonic · « **Reply #40 on:** July 25, 2006, 02:29:01 AM »

Quote from: guysonic on June 19, 2006, 02:49:59 AM

R-09 has JUST gotten into taper's hands and needs real user experience and some careful electronic bench testing before performance/feature comparisons can be made as what's the best model choice for certain purposes.

Should have one for bench testing within the next few days, and hope to do a a short review similar to one done on the MT deck posted on my site. Review will be from recordists viewpoint who uses external stereo microphone directly into the deck, or maybe with external analog LINE level preamplifier if deck's preamplifier proves a bit noisy as is case for MT deck for acoustic recording purposes using low output type mics.

Well I for one am still waiting to get one of these for testing! $:-\$ I even went out and purchased a 1GIG SD Sandisk Ultra II card a month ago for this purpose.
Prevous taper who was to get delivery and send the deck here for testing seems to also be waiting for delivery.

So the technical review I'd like to do, like that done and posted on my site about the Microtracker, is on hold until more R-09's are shipped, maybe in a few weeks

mdarnton · « **Reply #41 on:** July 25, 2006, 02:49:34 AM »

And here's the best review of the MT to match, as I'm sure you know:
http://www.sonicstudios.com/mt2496rv.htm

Love those -Ts. Reminds me of the playground in 5th grade. I just think of them as bad karma points for the givers. Keep them coming, bileboys.

china_rider · « **Reply #42 on:** July 25, 2006, 03:22:09 AM »

Quote from: guysonic on July 25, 2006, 02:29:01 AM

Well I for one am still waiting to get one of these for testing! $:-\$ I even went out and purchased a 1GIG SD Sandisk Ultra II card a month ago for this purpose.
Prevous taper who was to get delivery and send the deck here for testing seems to also be waiting for delivery.

So the technical review I'd like to do, like that done and posted on my site about the Microtracker, is on hold until more R-09's are shipped, maybe in a few weeks

Guy... check with cascasde media... I think I heard they may have them in stock.

Zaphod · « **Reply #43 on:** July 25, 2006, 12:03:58 PM »

Quote from: china_rider on July 25, 2006, 03:22:09 AM

Quote from: guysonic on July 25, 2006, 02:29:01 AM
Well I for one am still waiting to get one of these for testing! $:-\$ I even went out and purchased a 1GIG SD Sandisk Ultra II card a month ago for this purpose.
Prevous taper who was to get delivery and send the deck here for testing seems to also be waiting for delivery.

So the technical review I'd like to do, like that done and posted on my site about the Microtracker, is on hold until more R-09's are shipped, maybe in a few weeks

Guy... check with cascasde media... I think I heard they may have them in stock.

I don't think so, I'm on the waiting list.

randelph · « **Reply #44 on:** July 31, 2006, 01:45:05 PM »

ghostyroasty,
check out bpm at [http://www.bpmmusic.com/cgi-bin/bpsrch.cgi?main=edirol]. They don't show it on their website, but they sell the r-09 for $339.
randelph

Pokey1 · « **Reply #45 on:** August 01, 2006, 10:42:42 AM »

I'm tellin ya if you get the mic that the Sound Professionals make for the Micro-Track all will be good. I can't believe that no one else has gotten that mic. AM I THE ONLY ONE THAT USES IT. COME -ON READ MY POST ON THE MIC. In the mic section. I am very happy with the MT. Thank You