Topic: line in vs mic in on minidisc?

[smat]

another question for the kick ass knowledge base out there:).  I'm currently running coresound cardioids into a sharp minidisc.  I run them 'mic in' and  was recently made aware that running them 'line in' may yeild better results.  I tried this out with my band--loud signal; mics 3 feet from amps----even with levels cranked to the max, the signal was too weak.  Any recommendations on getting better success with this? ...Or is it even worth fucking with?  .............Core sounds has a little batt box powered by a 9v batt......

[Zaphod]

I've heard that Core Sounds don't work too well going line-in. I think that it might be because they do not have a high sensitivity. They are made for really LOUD enviroments. This is my guess.

But do you have the low cost versions or the regular CSCs?

Someone else will chime in I'm sure.

[taperkat]

Turn up the volume on the Sharp (what version?) to 30 (max) and then hit record, pause, so you can chekc your levels, then use the track advance/ff button to crank your *recording volume* to 30. I suspect you don't have one or the other up.

let me know if you have more issues.

[Robby Grossman]

I've heard that Core Sounds don't work too well going line-in. I think that it might be because they do not have a high sensitivity. They are made for really LOUD enviroments. This is my guess.

But do you have the low cost versions or the regular CSCs?

Someone else will chime in I'm sure.

Go ahead and pick up the battery box.  That will give you what is called "Plug-In" Power, to bring your mics up to a line level.  Once that's done, you should be good to go!  My stealth setup is CMC-16's > Batt Box > Sony MD.

Hope that helps!
Robby

[smat]

But do you have the low cost versions or the regular CSCs? 

I have the $250 CSC's
I've got the levels max'd out and still just a very weak signal.

Go ahead and pick up the battery box.  That will give you what is called "Plug-In" Power, to bring your mics up to a line level.  Once that's done, you should be good to go!  My stealth setup is CMC-16's > Batt Box > Sony MD.

I am using the batt box that came with the CSC's.  Is there another batt box I should be using?

[Robby Grossman]

I am using the batt box that came with the CSC's.  Is there another batt box I should be using?

My bad, I thought you meant you were doing it without the batt box, but that there was a batt box available.  Disregard what I said, sorry. :-/

[dklein]

If you can't get the levels high enough then just use the mic-in at the appropriate setting.  A battery won't do anything for boosting levels - it's a passive device.  A preamp would boost to line level.  CSBs sensitivity (i.e. output level) is on the low side - I only once caught sound loud enough to drive line level with the same setup, near a bass cabinet and it sounded awful.

[ehg]

If you can't get the levels high enough then just use the mic-in at the appropriate setting.  A battery won't do anything for boosting levels - it's a passive device.  A preamp would boost to line level.  CSBs sensitivity (i.e. output level) is on the low side - I only once caught sound loud enough to drive line level with the same setup, near a bass cabinet and it sounded awful.

Go ahead and pick up the battery box.  That will give you what is called "Plug-In" Power, to bring your mics up to a line level.  Once that's done, you should be good to go!

Which of these statements are true? I just bought a Archos Gmini 220 and tried to plug in my CSC's without a battbox and got nothing on the level meters.

Instead I plugged it to my laptop's speaker out and it worked just fine. Now, my intention is to buy new mics with a battbox... and I thought the battbox would bring it up to line-level just like AmbysShrink says? Am I wrong?

[leegeddy]

battery boxes provide power to condenser microphones. battboxes output a mic level signal, not line level.

marc

[silverbullet]

I know a buddy who uses core mics with a sony MD. He only uses the mic-in and and gets good results.

If you want to extended the MD's battery life, possibly get better recordings, and don't mind having an extra item then get a battery box and use the line-in.

[leegeddy]

I know a buddy who uses core mics with a sony MD. He only uses the mic and and gets good results.

If you want to extended the MD's battery life, possibly get better recordings, and don't mind having an extra item then get a battery box and use the line-in.

in your buddy's case, his md provides "plug in power" to the mics. whether it's plug-in, battbox or phantom pwer, condensor mics require outside power to operate. 

marc

[thierryhenry]

Get something other than CSB's in my opinion..

[musicsherlock]

dklein is correct; you need a pre-amp to use the Line-In option on MD.  I use CSB (w/Batt Box) as well, however I use a Deneke AD-20 pre-amp (Analog>Digital converter) which allows the Line-in to become Optical/Digital-in.  I have had great results with this set-up.  The AD-20 is a little bulky for stealth jobs but you can still maintain a low-profile.

[zhianosatch]

highly recommend the ad-20 for all you md users. it's not too hard to stealth, either. do it, and your ears will thank you.

[silverbullet]

highly recommend the ad-20 for all you md users. it's not too hard to stealth, either. do it, and your ears will thank you.

The Denecke AD-20 only takes left and right xlr input mic cables, right? I would think most MD tapers have mics with a 1/8" jack at the end. Is there a small 1/8>xlr cable readily available to purchase for such said stealth techniques? The shorter the cable the better. 

[zhianosatch]

Is there a small 1/8>xlr cable readily available to purchase for such said stealth techniques?

of course. i did this on and off for a year and a half.

[som]

you need a pre-amp to use the Line-In option on MD

When I was using a MD I taped several shows with SP-CMC8's (and before that, low-cost CSB's) going line in with a battery box and was able to get sufficient levels. These were fairly loud shows, and it worked fine.

[silverbullet]

I've been using MD+ 6-9 volt battery box+SP cmc-8 mics for rock shows also. Good results with the Sharp MD levels around setting '4'. Recently switched to soundman mics under the shirt. Mics aren't up as high but you can't see anything. I never needed a bass roll off using the cmc-8's but I will use a bass roll off on the next soundman recording.

[neognosis]

I use CSBs and my Sharp MD only has a line-in, no mic-in, but I've never had a problem.  I usually set the line-in volume to 26, get in front of the stacks, and the levels only go about half way up.  I could probably turn up the volume some, but don't want to risk any overloading.  I always have to crank the volume when I master it to CD, but it turns out nice.

[dklein]

Back to the original poster - the Archos thing doesn't provide plug-in power so you need a battery box to power the mics, and a preamp if you want line level signals.  That's why you didn't get anything from your CSCs.  With a minidisc or some other device that provides plug-in power, the little mics can run without a battery box. 

The battery boxes give a higher voltage than standard plug in power, enabling the mics to handle louder sounds without clipping.  The higher voltage allows the mics internal FET a higher 'swing' voltage.  The lower voltage can 'run out' at extreme levels.

[Mindflayer]

i only use line in on a MD because of the preamps on the mic in. i record extremely loud stuff usually so the fact theres no preamp  makes for a non clipping distortion free recording in my experience. one of the bands i record regularly is deffinitly regarded as one of the loudest bands out there right now and i have never experienced any sort of clipping with them using line in.

another thing i like about line in is that crowd gets cut because its not as loud as the band.

as far as the playback being weak thats true but you can allways turn up the gain after on a computer as opposed to trying to turn it down...

[tms]

another question for the kick ass knowledge base out there:).  I'm currently running coresound cardioids into a sharp minidisc.  I run them 'mic in' and  was recently made aware that running them 'line in' may yeild better results.  I tried this out with my band--loud signal; mics 3 feet from amps----even with levels cranked to the max, the signal was too weak.  Any recommendations on getting better success with this? ...Or is it even worth fucking with?  .............Core sounds has a little batt box powered by a 9v batt......

Line in doesn't supply the mic power, you need a battery box.  The 9V battery box lets you run in higher SPLs than the mic-in power which is probably only ~3v on that MD player. Basically you're sending a hotter signal to the recorder if you use the battery box, it'll be closer to line level (1 volt peak to peak).

Is it worth f'in with?  Depends on your goal.  A cheap way to hear the difference is to borrow a battery box from the equipment loan page and find out!

[poorlyconditioned]

another question for the kick ass knowledge base out there:).  I'm currently running coresound cardioids into a sharp minidisc.  I run them 'mic in' and  was recently made aware that running them 'line in' may yeild better results.  I tried this out with my band--loud signal; mics 3 feet from amps----even with levels cranked to the max, the signal was too weak.  Any recommendations on getting better success with this? ...Or is it even worth fucking with?  .............Core sounds has a little batt box powered by a 9v batt......

Line in doesn't supply the mic power, you need a battery box.  The 9V battery box lets you run in higher SPLs than the mic-in power which is probably only ~3v on that MD player. Basically you're sending a hotter signal to the recorder if you use the battery box, it'll be closer to line level (1 volt peak to peak).

Is it worth f'in with?  Depends on your goal.  A cheap way to hear the difference is to borrow a battery box from the equipment loan page and find out!

Two things to consider:
- make sure mics are getting power, either plug-in-power from the mic input, or battery box + line in.  As said above, line in will not provide power to the mics, so you need a battery box.
- mics have different sensitivities, so that may give you lower or higher levels to line in, *but* the MD units themselves may have different amount of gain as well.  I know my MZ-R37 (older) MD has more gain than my newer 800 model HiMD.  Gain of 30/30 on my newer unit is something like gain of 25/30 on my older unit.

My opinion is that it will sound a lot better if you run line in.  If you can...

  Richard