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Author Topic: Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update  (Read 30523 times)

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Offline tonyvt

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« on: June 01, 2005, 03:47:03 PM »
I have been sitting here and biting my tongue as this thread has progressed but feel that I cannot keep quiet on this any longer.
I have always felt that retailers should remain as unobtrusive as possible on public forums but I guess I have to cross the line this time.

I find it hard to believe that some members of TS are talking smack about Doug Oade and hope that you are joking. Some of you might not know that Doug was a pioneer in early  digital recording and should be shown respect by the taper community. His own unique modifications and products including the Oade cable and Oade pre-amps have helped push our little hobby of field recording forward in many ways.

I am also an M-Audio dealer and have spoken to our rep several times about the availability of the new flash recorder since it was first leaked here on this forum. I have got to let you know that our rep had very limited information about this unit last week when I spoke with him and he did not have any pricing info or a shipping ETA. Late in the week I received an updated dealer price list from M-Audio and there was no mention of the flash recorder and there is still no info on their website as of this morning.

Think about it for a minute. When was the last time that an audio/electronics company didn't promote a product before shipping it? 

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Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2005, 03:54:10 PM »
I have been sitting here and biting my tongue as this thread has progressed but feel that I cannot keep quiet on this any longer.
I have always felt that retailers should remain as unobtrusive as possible on public forums but I guess I have to cross the line this time.

I find it hard to believe that some members of TS are talking smack about Doug Oade and hope that you are joking.

Yup, joking:

wayne.....i'm pretty sure that was a joke ;)

Most folks here have the utmost respect for Doug and his whole operation and have a keen recognition of all he's done (and continues to do) for our hobby.

As for whether the M-Audio unit is vaporware, we'll all find out soon enough.
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Offline silentmark

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2005, 04:18:12 PM »
I have been sitting here and biting my tongue as this thread has progressed but feel that I cannot keep quiet on this any longer.
I have always felt that retailers should remain as unobtrusive as possible on public forums but I guess I have to cross the line this time.

I find it hard to believe that some members of TS are talking smack about Doug Oade and hope that you are joking.

Yup, joking:

wayne.....i'm pretty sure that was a joke ;)

Most folks here have the utmost respect for Doug and his whole operation and have a keen recognition of all he's done (and continues to do) for our hobby.

As for whether the M-Audio unit is vaporware, we'll all find out soon enough.

Yup, joking ...

Another yup for respect ...

And yet another yup for vaporware ...
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Offline creekfreak

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2005, 04:33:22 PM »
bummer....hope it makes it out some day...
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Offline John Kelly

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2005, 10:27:19 AM »
So the moral of the story is we have no real idea what the heck is going on, and only an announcement from M-Audio will clear that up. 
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Offline tonyvt

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2005, 10:39:34 AM »
Agreed. I will let you guys know if I hear something from our M-Audio rep.

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Offline tonyvt

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2005, 02:34:28 PM »
Good news!

The new M-Audio recorder is officially going to be called Micro Track and is scheduled to start shipping in mid August.
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Offline tonyvt

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2005, 02:41:47 PM »
This is honestly the exact information that I received. I didn't get any specs other than the list price was $499.95
and map was $399.00. I will write in again when I receive some specs.
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Offline The Kilted Taper

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2005, 02:44:03 PM »
Timeline has changed a bit in the last week. In the other thread, someone had posted it would be the first or second week in July, and that his retailer friend already had one in hand (I think that's what it said). Now we're talking mid August?
"The guy who's been dissed, dismissed and demoted so often that he should have officially changed his first name to "Backup." "

Offline John Kelly

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Re: Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2005, 02:51:21 PM »
Timeline has changed a bit in the last week. In the other thread, someone had posted it would be the first or second week in July, and that his retailer friend already had one in hand (I think that's what it said). Now we're talking mid August?

I don't remember reading someone actually had one in hand...
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Offline Ed.

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Re: Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2005, 02:56:08 PM »
i don't remember the one in hand either.  however, this sounds like its really happening.

i'm excited.


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Offline The Kilted Taper

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Re: Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2005, 03:11:03 PM »
i don't remember the one in hand either.  however, this sounds like its really happening.

i'm excited.

here ya go:

M-Audio Part number US48010

Shipping to them end of June, but they'll be closed for two weeks, so they'll ship out mid-July.  $499 retail, street price $399.

Dealer friend just got this from M-Audio.

Jeff
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Offline WiFiJeff

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Re: Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2005, 03:15:45 PM »
i don't remember the one in hand either.  however, this sounds like its really happening.

i'm excited.

here ya go:

M-Audio Part number US48010

Shipping to them end of June, but they'll be closed for two weeks, so they'll ship out mid-July.  $499 retail, street price $399.

Dealer friend just got this from M-Audio.

Jeff


Hey!  I said he got a part number, NOT that he got a machine.  I'll have to write more carefully I guess.

Jeff

Offline tonyvt

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2005, 03:20:17 PM »
For what it is worth the new part number for the Micro Track is #9900-40773-00.
M-Audio will be updating their systems during July and will not be shipping for a few weeks.
I wouldn't expect to see it until mid August.
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Offline The Kilted Taper

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Re: Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2005, 03:27:57 PM »

Hey!  I said he got a part number, NOT that he got a machine.  I'll have to write more carefully I guess.

Jeff

Or I need to learn to read. I was reading it has he got HIS from m-audio, not he got THIS from.... Oh well.

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Offline John Kelly

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Re: Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2005, 03:42:58 PM »
i don't remember the one in hand either. however, this sounds like its really happening.

i'm excited.

here ya go:

M-Audio Part number US48010

Shipping to them end of June, but they'll be closed for two weeks, so they'll ship out mid-July. $499 retail, street price $399.

Dealer friend just got this from M-Audio.

Jeff

Not sure how you can read that as having a unit in hand... ;)
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Offline BLOODYJACK

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2005, 04:20:16 PM »
If it shows up lets hope they do A2D right because optical digital can not handle 24bit audio
It will just get truncated.

Offline The Kilted Taper

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2005, 04:23:12 PM »
If it shows up lets hope they do A2D right because optical digital can not handle 24bit audio
It will just get truncated.

Pretty sure it's got an rca style coax in.

Not sure how you can read that as having a unit in hand... ;)




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Offline Craig T

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2005, 04:26:49 PM »
If it shows up lets hope they do A2D right because optical digital can not handle 24bit audio
It will just get truncated.

 ???

you can certainly transmit 24bit audio via toslink optical, at least up to 24/96, maybe not 24/192.

I also don't understand the connection between a/d conversion and the digital i/o format.  You'd only be concerned with the a/d quality if you're using the analog inputs.
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Offline Brian

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Re: Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2005, 04:30:12 PM »
If it shows up lets hope they do A2D right because optical digital can not handle 24bit audio
It will just get truncated.

 ???

you can certainly transmit 24bit audio via toslink optical, at least up to 24/96, maybe not 24/192.

I also don't understand the connection between a/d conversion and the digital i/o format.  You'd only be concerned with the a/d quality if you're using the analog inputs.

as a matter of fact you can successfully transmit up to 4 channels of 24/88.2 or 96 down an ADAT optical line. 8 channels of 24/44.1 or 48.

Offline Kevin Straker

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2005, 12:43:33 PM »
Anybody know if this sumbitch will do 16 bit? 24 bit will be nice and I will adapt my playback system in the near future,but for now it'll have to do 16bit also.
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Offline BLOODYJACK

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2005, 08:59:44 PM »
OK I had to go Check the information and you can do 24bit with SPDIF
but not with AES/EBU if you follow the defined useage.

"Both S/PDIF and AES/EBU can, and do transfer 24 bit words. In AES/EBU, the last 4 bits have a defined usage, so if anyone puts audio in there, it has to go to something that doesn't expect the standard specifies. But in S/PDIF, there's nothing that says what you have to use the bits for, so filling them all up with audio is acceptable. Typical S/PDIF equipments only use 16 or 20 bit resolutions. While many equipments use more than 16 bits in internal processing, it's not unusual for the output to be limited to 16 bits."
« Last Edit: June 26, 2005, 09:18:56 PM by BLOODYJACK »

Offline The Kilted Taper

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2005, 03:45:01 PM »
First I've seen it mentioned on the m-audio site (just a peep):

http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=media.new&ID=0c4be8c815d5bd1092b937785524a11a
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Offline spyder9

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2005, 04:10:35 PM »
Small Dog Electronics has it listed for back order already.  Under the new name w/ August availability.


http://www.smalldog.com/product/35375/atfgc

 

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2005, 04:38:41 PM »
Small Dog Electronics has it listed for back order already.  Under the new name w/ August availability.


http://www.smalldog.com/product/35375/atfgc

 

so its called MicroTrack 24/96 ?

right on

Offline OOK

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2005, 04:55:08 PM »
I can't wait !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  If this thing does everything its reported too..........LOOK OUT!
no more lappies, 722/744's, M1, D8's,D whatever!  This thing could corner the taper market!
With a street price of 400$ and card costs dropping I will definately pick one up.  I will just wait and see that there are no issues like the SD boxes people got suckered on(just my opinion).
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Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2005, 05:07:28 PM »
i think it WILL corner the recorder market IMO
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Offline John Kelly

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Re: Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2005, 05:22:46 PM »
With expectations that high it can only fail to deliver. ;)  Just be like me - think it will be a nice replacement for the JB3 and if it turns out to be better, then great. ;D
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Re: Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #28 on: June 27, 2005, 05:28:18 PM »
With expectations that high it can only fail to deliver. ;)  Just be like me - think it will be a nice replacement for the JB3 and if it turns out to be better, then great. ;D

thats what i hope too, though i am a sceptic. gonna keep the jb3s just in case
Ray

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Re: Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #29 on: June 27, 2005, 05:30:21 PM »
Just be like me - think it will be a nice replacement for the JB3 and if it turns out to be better, then great. ;D

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Re: Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #30 on: June 27, 2005, 06:20:55 PM »
i think it WILL corner the recorder market IMO

quoting for when it doesnt work out of the box as it should

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Re: Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #31 on: June 27, 2005, 07:26:42 PM »
i think it WILL corner the recorder market IMO

quoting for when it doesnt work out of the box as it should

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Re: Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2005, 07:30:58 PM »
i think it WILL corner the recorder market IMO

quoting for when it doesnt work out of the box as it should

i wont have to sell my whole rig to find that out either, i will have a jb3 backup :P

this money is out of pocket :P

im still disappointed in you nick, you sold mics w/ inetrcahangeable caps for fixed actives :P so your opinion means nothing anymore
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Offline nickgregory

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Re: Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #33 on: June 27, 2005, 07:52:46 PM »
i wont have to sell my whole rig to find that out either, i will have a jb3 backup :P

wont work unless you truncate the 24 bit signal coming out of the V3

this money is out of pocket

shouldnt make a difference, I thought your objection to the 722 wasnt cost it was the principle of the matter...

im still disappointed in you nick, you sold mics w/ inetrcahangeable caps for fixed actives  so your opinion means nothing anymore

given the fact that the farthest I have been from the stage in the past 3 years has been no more than 50 ft, cardiods will suit me just fine....and actives will allow me to run up front my unobtrusively than I could have before...as for disappointed, ok...sorry...

Hater. :boxing: :flipa:

not really I hope it works as i will buy one as well so that I can have a quality stealthing rig..

it was a joke....unlike some I wont bash a product til I have played with it and hear what it sounds like

point I was making is that saying it will "corner the recorder market" is a little ambitious considering no one knows if the unit performs as billed

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Re: Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #34 on: June 27, 2005, 08:31:10 PM »
i wont have to sell my whole rig to find that out either, i will have a jb3 backup :P

wont work unless you truncate the 24 bit signal coming out of the V3

this money is out of pocket

shouldnt make a difference, I thought your objection to the 722 wasnt cost it was the principle of the matter...

im still disappointed in you nick, you sold mics w/ inetrcahangeable caps for fixed actives  so your opinion means nothing anymore

given the fact that the farthest I have been from the stage in the past 3 years has been no more than 50 ft, cardiods will suit me just fine....and actives will allow me to run up front my unobtrusively than I could have before...as for disappointed, ok...sorry...

Hater. :boxing: :flipa:

not really I hope it works as i will buy one as well so that I can have a quality stealthing rig..

it was a joke....unlike some I wont bash a product til I have played with it and hear what it sounds like

point I was making is that saying it will "corner the recorder market" is a little ambitious considering no one knows if the unit performs as billed

im just messin w/ ya bud :smoking:

oh and when i run the jb3 as backup, its gonna be v3>xlr out>1/8" mini>jb3 :) better than nothing, ya know :)
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Re: Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #35 on: June 27, 2005, 08:31:35 PM »
did you know that if, for instance, somebody is bothering / annoying you,.... You write that someones name backwards, and then put it in the freezer,.. that they'll then leave you alone and chill.

fair warning.

+

thought i was getting cold 8)
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Offline Todd R

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #36 on: June 27, 2005, 08:37:48 PM »
Yep, Nick, I took it as a joke -- as was my reply. :-*  I already T'd ya, or I'd get you again.

As for the JB3 back up:  at first I'll probably run 16/44 just to be sure the Flash Tracker works (with the JB3 into the V3 optical), then I'll be running V3 (24/48)>Flash tracker, and V3(analog)> modSBM1(optical)> JB3 for backup.  No truncation needed. ;D
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Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #37 on: June 27, 2005, 08:38:24 PM »
that'll be a smoking hot signal coming at the jb3. are they capable?

did you know that if, for instance, somebody is bothering / annoying you,.... You write that someones name backwards, and then put it in the freezer,.. that they'll then leave you alone and chill.

fair warning.

+

thought i was getting cold 8)

naeB,...
its OK.

 :smoking: hot ehh ;D

i will just run a pad inbetween the v3>jb3 ;)

20db pad should be plenty
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Offline nickgregory

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Re: Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #38 on: June 27, 2005, 08:42:22 PM »
sometimes my dry humor doesnt translate in the internet...hell it doesnt translate at home, just ask my wife

in all seriousness, I am hoping it works as billed....it could be a great stealthing machine

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #39 on: June 27, 2005, 08:44:38 PM »
changed the sig just now ehh nick ;D

i have some prime mics>722 tapes, but i cant listen to them yet because theyre dvd-a discs

is there a way to copy them to my HD and dither down? i wanna hear these 722 tapes i got :)
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Offline nickgregory

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Re: Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #40 on: June 27, 2005, 08:49:16 PM »
if they are flac or .wav files you can dither them down...if they are already burned as DVD-As I dont believe there is a way too...if you want some examples though, I have some 16 bit versions available here:

http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=22974

http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=23073

as for changing the sig...I was waiting til I ran the MGs one more time tomorrow...but thats ok....after tomorrow, they will be on the way to kindguy!


Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #41 on: June 27, 2005, 08:51:45 PM »
thanks nick, but im still a dinosaur on dial-up :'(

good luck w/ the new rig direction
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Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

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Re: Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #42 on: June 27, 2005, 10:02:42 PM »
i have some prime mics>722 tapes, but i cant listen to them yet because theyre dvd-a discs
is there a way to copy them to my HD and dither down? i wanna hear these 722 tapes i got :)

If those are the discs I'm thinking of, they are audio-DVD, not DVDA so you should be able to play them in any DVD player.
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Re: Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #43 on: June 27, 2005, 10:30:00 PM »
thanks nick, but im still a dinosaur on dial-up :'(

sounds like you've found a place for that out of pocket cash to go

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #44 on: June 28, 2005, 06:02:12 AM »
thanks nick, but im still a dinosaur on dial-up :'(

sounds like you've found a place for that out of pocket cash to go

i will NOT support copmcast tho :P
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Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #45 on: June 28, 2005, 03:34:33 PM »
i have some prime mics>722 tapes, but i cant listen to them yet because theyre dvd-a discs
is there a way to copy them to my HD and dither down? i wanna hear these 722 tapes i got :)

If those are the discs I'm thinking of, they are audio-DVD, not DVDA so you should be able to play them in any DVD player.

coulkd i copy the files to my HD and listen thru my digi out>receiver ???
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Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

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Offline Steelcorner27

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #46 on: June 28, 2005, 08:15:15 PM »
So who has a link for the best price on CF for these babys I want to get some lined up.

Thanks for your help

Brad

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Re: Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #47 on: June 28, 2005, 11:45:13 PM »
thanks nick, but im still a dinosaur on dial-up :'(

sounds like you've found a place for that out of pocket cash to go

i will NOT support copmcast tho :P


GET DSL!
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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #48 on: June 29, 2005, 04:26:00 AM »
So who has a link for the best price on CF for these babys I want to get some lined up.

Thanks for your help

Brad

this is where i get all my stuff, for my camera.http://www.flash-memory-store.com/

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #49 on: June 29, 2005, 08:45:04 AM »
Compact Flash price comparisions

http://pricescan.com/digiphoto/08010202.asp

Offline sleepypedro

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #50 on: June 29, 2005, 08:54:53 AM »
if you're in the market for compactflash, i highly recommend hitting the websites listed below on a regular basis and not buying until a good deal comes down the pike.  dell home regularly has pretty ill prices -- just this past week they had 4GB cards for $185.  granted, not the fastest cards available, but it'll do the trick!  two weeks ago I picked up a sandisk 4gb ultra II card -- considerably faster than the ones on sale now -- for $277, which was $100 less than the going rate at amazon.com.

www.slickdeals.net
www.morestuff4less.com
www.dealnews.com

Offline John Kelly

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Re: Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #51 on: June 29, 2005, 09:04:32 AM »
Also techbargains.com - they have TONS of updates every day.

Those 4 gig cards for $185 are still around - the deal doesn't expire until tomorrow.  I may have to pick one up. ;)
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Offline silentmark

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Re: Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #52 on: June 29, 2005, 09:23:55 AM »
Also techbargains.com - they have TONS of updates every day.

Those 4 gig cards for $185 are still around - the deal doesn't expire until tomorrow.  I may have to pick one up. ;)

http://www.digitaldeals.net/
http://bensbargains.net/

Yeah John I hopped on one of the cards yesterday ...
Dissent is the highest form of patriotism. - Howard Zinn, not Thomas Jefferson ...

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Offline The Kilted Taper

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #53 on: June 29, 2005, 09:43:55 AM »
4 gig is probably the smallest we'd want to get, correct? And we haven't heard yet, but any thoughts on if this guy will do anything other than 24/96?
"The guy who's been dissed, dismissed and demoted so often that he should have officially changed his first name to "Backup." "

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Re: Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #54 on: June 29, 2005, 10:05:45 AM »
And we haven't heard yet, but any thoughts on if this guy will do anything other than 24/96?

I don't see why it wouldn't...
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Offline udovdh

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #55 on: June 29, 2005, 10:21:04 AM »
4G at $185 is kinda nice; it's about 154 euro's!
Compare with the pricing found here. (useful link for Dutchies)
(anyone want to help me get a few of those 4G cards at that price?  ;D)

But doing 24/96 is not always necessary. Personally I'd go for 88.2/24 at most. Resamples nicely.
Even at that setting I'd just get a tad over 2 hours out of one 4GB CF card which is just too short for me.
6G cards would be 'it' for me, but they are still kinda $$$?

Is 88/96 Khz noticable when using not so high end mics? Just costing a few 100?
« Last Edit: June 29, 2005, 12:43:18 PM by udovdh »

Offline Colin Liston

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #56 on: June 29, 2005, 10:21:55 AM »
I will be getting one of these and would like to be able to start using when I get it.

Anyone know what the best card would be for this unit?  Which ones are "faster" than others, and does being faster mean better?


thanks
colin
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Offline John Kelly

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Re: Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #57 on: June 29, 2005, 10:30:24 AM »
4G at $185 is kinda nice; it's about 154 euro's!
Compare with the pricing found here. (useful link for Dutchies)
(anyone want to help me get a few of thos 4G cards at that price? ;D)

But doing 24/96 is not always necessary. Personally I'd go for 88.2/24 at most. Resamples nicely.
Even at that setting I'd just get a tad over 2 hours out of one 4GB CF card which is just too short for me.
6G cards would be 'it' for me, but they are still kinda $$$?

Is 88/98 Khz noticable when using not so high end mics? Just costing a few 100?

I'm not sure I've ever seen a 6 gig CF card.  They all seem to go from 4 gigs right to 8 gigs. 

To start I'll probably be recording in 24/48 then jump up to 96 once CF cards come way down in price.
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Offline sleepypedro

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #58 on: June 29, 2005, 11:27:29 AM »
I will be getting one of these and would like to be able to start using when I get it.

Anyone know what the best card would be for this unit?  Which ones are "faster" than others, and does being faster mean better?


thanks
colin

"Faster" only means it'll copy data off the card quicker.  Very important to me for the two festivals I hit a year if i'm only travelling with one 4gb card!  (The read rate of the Sandisk Ultra II series is twice that of the card on sale at dell now.  That's totally worth the bump in price for me.)

That said, i'm sure there's a certain sustained write rate that's vital for successful writes as well, but I don't know what that number would be. 

Offline pfife

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #59 on: June 29, 2005, 11:37:46 AM »
am I misreading your message, or are you saying that the speed of the card does not mean how quickly data is written to the card, but only how quickly data is read FROM the card?

Tickets are dead to me.  Except the ones I have, don't have, and lost.  Not to mention the ones you have, don't have, and lost.   And the ones that other dude has, doesn't have, and lost.  Let me know if you need some tickets, I'm happy to oblige. 

Tickets >>>>>>>> Oxygen

Offline sleepypedro

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #60 on: June 29, 2005, 11:47:16 AM »
am I misreading your message, or are you saying that the speed of the card does not mean how quickly data is written to the card, but only how quickly data is read FROM the card?



there's a read rate and a write rate.

what i was saying was i'm sure almost any card on the market can sustain a 24/96 write (or at least i'd assume -- if a 5400 rpm laptop hard drive can do it, after all...).  what really matters more to me is the rate at which data can be read from the card!

sorry if my earlier post was unclear -- bottom line, check the technical specs of any card before purchasing!

Offline pfife

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #61 on: June 29, 2005, 12:22:14 PM »
am I misreading your message, or are you saying that the speed of the card does not mean how quickly data is written to the card, but only how quickly data is read FROM the card?



there's a read rate and a write rate.

what i was saying was i'm sure almost any card on the market can sustain a 24/96 write (or at least i'd assume -- if a 5400 rpm laptop hard drive can do it, after all...).  what really matters more to me is the rate at which data can be read from the card!

sorry if my earlier post was unclear -- bottom line, check the technical specs of any card before purchasing!

nah man the post was totally clear, I just didn't think that was the case, but its cool that it is.

+T
Tickets are dead to me.  Except the ones I have, don't have, and lost.  Not to mention the ones you have, don't have, and lost.   And the ones that other dude has, doesn't have, and lost.  Let me know if you need some tickets, I'm happy to oblige. 

Tickets >>>>>>>> Oxygen

Offline it-goes-to-eleven

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #62 on: June 29, 2005, 01:09:11 PM »
what i was saying was i'm sure almost any card on the market can sustain a 24/96 write (or at least i'd assume -- if a 5400 rpm laptop hard drive can do it, after all...).

Nope.  They vary.  It becomes a serious issue on digital cameras when you want to shoot constantly at 3 frames/sec or whatever (especially with larger image formats like TIFF).

This particular card is quite fast and should be okay.  But that isn't the case with all of them.

This site has good info that is specific to the Nikon D70 but should give you an idea.  It is important to note that the write performance depends greatly on the size of the write and how it is implemented in the device.  We'll assume that the FT is fairly well optimized but it may not write as quickly as the D70, etc.

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=6007-6816

24/96 is about .55 MB/second.

Offline JasonSobel

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #63 on: June 29, 2005, 01:15:01 PM »
Quote
24/96 is about .55 MB/second.

yup, and I think the Sandisk "Ultra II" series has a 9 MB/sec write rate and 10 MB/sec read rate (don't quote me on that, but that's what I recall, and I've been looking around the past couple of days).  This is way above the .55 MB/sec needed for 24/96 .wav files, so even a "slower" card could probably keep up with 24/96 data.

here is a good link with file sizes at different bit depths and sample rates:

http://24bit.turtleside.com/pcm.wav.file.sizes.pdf

that table shows MB/Hour, MB/sec, and GB/hour

Offline OFOTD

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #64 on: June 29, 2005, 01:21:13 PM »
Let's also not forget that it is highly likely that this unit will be compatible with MicroDrives as well.  Looking on B & H Photo I found this deal as a reference for microdrives.

Hitachi 6GB Microdrive 3K4 with Travel Kit and PCMCIA Adapter - MD6GBA  for $269

This is just one example of themicrodrives which I think in general are less expensive than most CompactFlash II memory.  Here is a link to a froogle page with some more reference on prices for these drives:
http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=Microdrive&btnG=Search+Froogle


Offline Todd R

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #65 on: June 29, 2005, 01:41:54 PM »
The microdrives draw quite a bit more power.  I wouldn't want to use them for that reason alone.
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Offline JasonSobel

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #66 on: June 29, 2005, 01:48:47 PM »
Quote
I'd expect it will be.  Though I recall some folks complaining about problems with microdrives when doing PDA recording at 24/96.  I'll pay the price difference for Flash so I don't have to worry about heat and vibration.  Do the MD's use more power?

yeah, MicroDries are less stable, and they use more power, because of the small spinning harddrive.  CF cards use less power and are less prone to vibration problems (no moving parts).  I agree with you that I'd rather pay the price difference for some piece of mind when recording. :)

Quote
Another hope is that you can record to USB mass storage devices via the USB port.

not too likely, because I doubt it's a USB host.  but on the other hand, you could buy an "on-the-go" storage device and dump the recordings to that between sets.

Offline John Kelly

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Re: Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #67 on: June 29, 2005, 02:15:29 PM »
Microdrives also have a much higher rate of failure.  I will definitely not be purchasing a microdrive. ;)
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Offline Colin Liston

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #68 on: June 29, 2005, 03:49:05 PM »
So...who will be making the RCA > XLR dongle for this thing?

I'll need a short RCA>XLR for stealthing.

Anyone Anyone?

colin
Occasionally....music mics record

Offline The Kilted Taper

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #69 on: June 29, 2005, 03:56:11 PM »
RCA > XLR?? Going out of the Tracker to what? Seems like your adding gear.
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Offline IowaClint

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #70 on: June 29, 2005, 04:02:29 PM »
I record using a PDA.  Never had a write or read failure on my hitachi microdrives.  I haven't done 24/96 on them though, just 24/48.  After a few shows I re-format and cluster them.   Also, never had a vibration issue either.  Power, I use a battery extender and 4 AA's and never had a power issue.  I have even ran without it and with the HP dual slot and Ipaq battery never ran even close to running out of power.  Just my .02  
Clint

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #71 on: June 29, 2005, 04:08:09 PM »
So...who will be making the RCA > XLR dongle for this thing?

for what purpose?
the inputs on the Tracker/MicroTrack are (2x)1/4" TRS w/ phantom or coax S/PDIF.
if you are referring to hooking your mics into the unit, you just need an adapter that converts each XLR to a 1/4" TRS.

the RCAs on the unit are analog outputs


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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #72 on: June 29, 2005, 04:09:52 PM »
So...who will be making the RCA > XLR dongle for this thing?

for what purpose?
the inputs on the Tracker/MicroTrack are (2x)1/4" TRS w/ phantom or coax S/PDIF.
if you are referring to hooking your mics into the unit, you just need an adapter that converts each XLR to a 1/4" TRS.

the RCAs on the unit are analog outputs

exactly what I am asking.
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Offline OFOTD

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Re: Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #73 on: June 29, 2005, 04:21:42 PM »
Microdrives also have a much higher rate of failure.  I will definitely not be purchasing a microdrive. ;)

I have never had one single problem with either heat or vibration with my IBM Microdrive.  I'd love to see where you get your information. about reliability?

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #74 on: June 29, 2005, 04:23:21 PM »
That's what I want, mics with XLR end > RCA > flash tracker

I would like a short RCA > XLR adapter. 

Where do they sell them?
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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #75 on: June 29, 2005, 04:24:40 PM »
That's what I want, mics with XLR end > RCA > flash tracker

I would like a short RCA > XLR adapter. 

Where do they sell them?

the RCAs are OUTPUTS, not inputs.

you can get the XLR>1/4" adapters at pretty much any musicians store or I'm sure LeeGeddy or someone else would make some for a reasonable price, but you would have to ask them.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2005, 04:26:27 PM by nic »


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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #76 on: June 29, 2005, 04:26:59 PM »
That's what I want, mics with XLR end > RCA > flash tracker

I would like a short RCA > XLR adapter. 

Where do they sell them?

It's being really anal on my part, but what you wrote is RCA going to XLR, you want XLR > RCA (hint, look at the way the arrow is pointing.  ;) )

And as has been stated, the RCAs are outputs, you will need 1/4" for the inputs.
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Offline Colin Liston

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #77 on: June 29, 2005, 06:07:46 PM »
1/4?  I thought it had RCA inputs.  I've only seen the one picture, and it only shows RCA's, didn't realize they might be the outputs.

Well then, never mind......

colin
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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #78 on: June 29, 2005, 06:12:04 PM »
Alright this is what I don't want.  I'd rather have a xlr>1/4 with a short cable.

If this was sticking out of the tracker, it would be longer than the tracker, wouldn't it?


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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #79 on: June 29, 2005, 06:26:31 PM »
Alright this is what I don't want.  I'd rather have a xlr>1/4 with a short cable.

If this was sticking out of the tracker, it would be longer than the tracker, wouldn't it?




that reminds me of a night in the rocky mountains with my gf liz in 93....


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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #80 on: June 29, 2005, 06:39:24 PM »
But doing 24/96 is not always necessary. Personally I'd go for 88.2/24 at most. Resamples nicely.
Even at that setting I'd just get a tad over 2 hours out of one 4GB CF card which is just too short for me.
6G cards would be 'it' for me, but they are still kinda $$$?

Is 88/96 Khz noticable when using not so high end mics? Just costing a few 100?

I'm not 100% on this but I don't believe you can write v-dvd discs natively at 88.2kHz.  You'll have to either resample or use dvd-a to author.  I believe that dvd-v is a much nicer option given that they'll play in any dvd player

Offline Colin Liston

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #81 on: June 29, 2005, 08:54:59 PM »
Okay maybe I am an idiot, what is TRS?    "Tracker will have 2x TRS mic/line jack inputs "

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Offline JasonSobel

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #82 on: June 29, 2005, 08:57:05 PM »
TRS = Tip-Ring-Sleeve = 3 conductors, which is necessary for phantom power.

a mono 1/4" connector only has two conductors

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Re: Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #83 on: June 29, 2005, 09:21:02 PM »
TRS = Tip-Ring-Sleeve = 3 conductors, which is necessary for phantom power.

a mono 1/4" connector only has two conductors

That is correct, Tip/Ring/Sleeve.  Miniplugs are also noted as TRS, and they are, but they are 1/8 inch, but the preliminary specs on this machine mention 1/4 inch TRS, which you may recognize as a guitar plug.

Offline Todd R

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #84 on: June 29, 2005, 11:06:41 PM »
Maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember anything really official saying it would be 1/4" TRS inputs.  Ok, well there is nothing official at all I guess, but what was posted when this thing first was found at the trade show just said TRS inputs.

Quote
Flash Tracker
# In a quiet corner of the impressive M-audio stand, were a couple of interesting gems. First up was the Flash Tracker, a dimunuitvie hand-held recorder, using Compact Flash and Micro-drive as media, it sports (according to preliminary specs): 2x TRS mic/line jack inputs
# 48V phantom power
# 3.5mm jack mic in with 5V power for electrec and back condenser mic
# SPDIF input
# 3.5mm headphone out
# RCA stereo out
# USB 2.0

There seems to be a running assumption that the stated TRS mic/line jacks will be 1/4", but they might end up being 1/8" miniplugs (which are also TRS).  Hopefully it'll be 1/4" TRS inputs, but I wouldn't be buying cables for it until I had it in hand, or at least until the official literature for it is published.
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Re: Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #85 on: June 29, 2005, 11:25:57 PM »
i'd say there's a REAL good chance they'll be 1/4"...can 1/8" supply 48v anyways?
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Offline MattD

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Re: Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #86 on: June 30, 2005, 12:09:09 AM »
Any 3-connector plug can supply 48V phantom power.

Edit: If we're being precise here, I should have said "carry," not "supply."
« Last Edit: June 30, 2005, 07:20:50 PM by MattD »
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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #87 on: June 30, 2005, 12:26:56 AM »
Well this picture is the one that made me assume the inputs were RCA:

So... .I guess no one really knows....interesting. 
For a product shipping in weeks, not much is really known.


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Re: Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #88 on: June 30, 2005, 01:22:12 AM »
Well, the original description of the device mentioned RCA outputs, and I don't see any other RCA outputs, so I would assume these are the ones.  It also mentions S/PDIF out, and I would again guess that is the one.  The inputs are likely on a different side of the machine.

True - not much is known - best of luck.

Offline udovdh

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #89 on: June 30, 2005, 05:31:02 AM »
Well this picture is the one that made me assume the inputs were RCA:
It doesn't say input nor output in the pic...

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #90 on: June 30, 2005, 08:05:10 AM »
Alright this is what I don't want.  I'd rather have a xlr>1/4 with a short cable.

If this was sticking out of the tracker, it would be longer than the tracker, wouldn't it?


those adapters wouldnt work as the 1/4" end arent TRS, those are mono.
this would work, though as you said I would also prefer one with a "cable" between the 2 ends:


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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #91 on: June 30, 2005, 09:12:21 AM »
Quote
Note: All information listed here is preliminary and subject to change. The Flash Tracker is a small hand-held recorder, using Compact Flash and Micro-drive as media. Features known so far:
# 2x TRS mic/line jack inputs
# 48V phantom power
# 3.5mm jack mic in with 5V power for electret condenser mic
# SPDIF RCA input
# 3.5mm headphone jack
# RCA stereo out
# USB 2.0
# 24-bit 96kHz recording

Doesn't say the size of the TRS, but I know it does somewhere....
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Offline Todd R

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #92 on: June 30, 2005, 11:31:01 AM »
The TRS thing gets discussed on page 6 of the Flash Tracker Update thread:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=42786.75


As far as I can tell, everything pointing to the TRS jacks being 1/4" is just our speculation. 

i am going with the assumption that it is 2x 1/4" TRS jacks.  those are small and will make it very nice to stealth with.

I'd imagine that the TRS would be designed as 1/4", but who knows.  This preliminary mock-up for a trade show might be a bit different from the actual product.  For all we know they switched to use mini-XLRs.  I just wouldn't be buying or building input cables until we have a better idea.  Of course, easy for me to say since I plan on using the spdif input and won't need analog input on it right away.
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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #93 on: June 30, 2005, 11:48:24 AM »
That must have been the conversation I was thinking about. I thought it was actually somewhere else too, but oh well. As you said, we'll just have to wait and see. My hopes of having this for Lolla at the end of July are fading fast though. Oh well.
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Offline BLOODYJACK

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #94 on: June 30, 2005, 04:22:30 PM »
If you look carefully at the picture posted above you can actualy read tip ring sleeve 1/4" jack
on the card behind it

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #95 on: June 30, 2005, 04:47:34 PM »
If you look carefully at the picture posted above you can actualy read tip ring sleeve 1/4" jack
on the card behind it

You see 1/4" on that?  I see:
"2 x TRS mic/line inputs ..."
"48V phantom power..."
...

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Re: Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #96 on: June 30, 2005, 05:21:24 PM »
If you look carefully at the picture posted above you can actualy read tip ring sleeve 1/4" jack
on the card behind it

You see 1/4" on that? I see:
"2 x TRS mic/line inputs ..."
"48V phantom power..."
...



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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #97 on: June 30, 2005, 05:26:57 PM »
Ok I added 1/4" assume you guys would know that TRS stands for Tip Ring Sleeve this refers to a Jack plug. I kinda assumed 1/4inch but heavens you might be right and its 3.5mm yuck.

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #98 on: June 30, 2005, 05:34:15 PM »
Ok I added 1/4" assume you guys would know that TRS stands for Tip Ring Sleeve this refers to a Jack plug. I kinda assumed 1/4inch but heavens you might be right and its 3.5mm yuck.

they do know what that means, Jack.

Where are you from?
Ray

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #99 on: June 30, 2005, 06:15:28 PM »
Oh and while were nit picking you do not neccecarily need 3 wires to use phantom power. You need 3 lines because phantom powered mics have balanced outputs. Just trying to educate some of the posters on this thread.

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Re: Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #100 on: June 30, 2005, 07:19:36 PM »
Oh and while were nit picking you do not neccecarily need 3 wires to use phantom power. You need 3 lines because phantom powered mics have balanced outputs. Just trying to educate some of the posters on this thread.

???
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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #101 on: June 30, 2005, 07:23:42 PM »
Oh and while were nit picking you do not neccecarily need 3 wires to use phantom power. You need 3 lines because phantom powered mics have balanced outputs. Just trying to educate some of the posters on this thread.

who said they did??

?????????????????

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #102 on: July 01, 2005, 01:30:55 AM »
Oh and while were nit picking you do not neccecarily need 3 wires to use phantom power. You need 3 lines because phantom powered mics have balanced outputs. Just trying to educate some of the posters on this thread.

Well I think you're going to have to educate me then, since as far as I'm concerned, you're dead wrong.  True phantom power does require 3 lines.  "Phantom power" has really become quite a stretched term, but originally it was developed by engineers at Neumann to provide power to condensor mics.  The actual standard developed by Neumann does require 3 connections, and it is technically only 48v (+/- 4v), not 12v or 24v or whatever, nor is it A-B 12v "T" powering -- though all those variations seem to be used to describe phantom power these days.  But phantom power is _not_ the same as bias power, and it does indeed require a 3 connection balanced signal.

The definition of phantom power is an equal voltage applied to pin-2 and pin-3 with respect to pin-1. (Thus phantom power does require a balanced connection between the mic and power supply.)  The point of phantom power is that it can be used to power condensor mics, but it has no effect whatsoever when balanced dynamic microphones (properly connected) are attached to the circuit.  An unbalanced dynamic microphone will be affected by phantom power (although the microphone will probably not be damaged, it will not work properly).  Ditto if you tried to set up some variation of phantom power that only used two connections -- you could use it to power a condensor microphone, but the same circuit would cause problems if a dynamic mic were hooked up to it.

As I said, the original phantom power standard was developed by Neumann and was very specific.  At this point there are several different phantom power standards set up by AES, but all of them require balanced connections.  If you know of any phantom powering schemes which do not require balanced connections that are recognized by AES as actual "phantom power" standards, I'd like to here about them.
 
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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #103 on: July 01, 2005, 09:50:17 AM »
Because it is becoming so frequent now, many people take the transplant of human tissue for granted, as one of the wonders of modern technology. But strictly speaking, they are not all that new.

Samhita, by Indian author Sushruta, notes that re-building of earlobes and noses was accomplished by using skin from the cheeks. However, the work dates back to the first century or before, and there is no supporting documents to prove the efforts were successful.

There are also recorded cases of bone grafts in the late 1600s, and the first semi-modern skin grafts from a cadaver in the late 1800s.  It would be 1906 however, before the first modern, and scientifically documented instance of corneal transplants took place in Moravia.

After that, transplants remained in limbo, partly because the fine sutures and needles required, were not developed until after the Second World War. But that did not stop some people from trying new things.

Russian born doctor Serge Voronoff, who became a naturalized French citizen, spent some time in Egypt around 1910, where he became fascinated by the eunuchs, men who had been castrated, and who exhibited underdevelopment or absence of certain normal physiological features of other men.  He also became convinced that the aging process resulted from a slow-down of the endocrine glands, and production of sex-related hormones. His solution? To transplant monkey testicles into male humans.

Having already entered the field of organ/hormone transplant by implanting chimpanzee thyroids into people suffering deficiencies, and also by doing animal-to-animal transplants of testicles, Voronoff forged ahead, performing nearly 500 monkey to human testicle transplants by the mid 1930s. Convinced he was on the right track, he then turned to curing the hormonal problems of menopause in women, by giving them monkey ovaries.

The results of his studies, always in doubt, were tainted further by the deaths of several women, and he ceased his experiments under pressure from the scientific community who had never been quite convinced what he was doing was either ethical, or effective.
 
 

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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #104 on: July 01, 2005, 10:15:22 AM »
^^^ BWAH!


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Re: M Audio Flash Tracker Recorder Update
« Reply #105 on: July 01, 2005, 11:07:23 AM »
I love the grunt that thing makes on the show.
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