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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: phil_fernandez on March 05, 2008, 12:25:04 PM
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So I've got 12th row center seats at the Palace in Albany for moe. on Friday night. I'm leaning towards using the omni caps on my CA11s. Anyone have any thoughts on this? Thanks!
Phil
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cards, you don't want all the crowd on your tape do you?
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The crowd noise issue crossed my mind, but I still was thinking the omnis would be better due to being up close. Glad I asked.
Thanks for responding!
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I would run cards
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Running on a stand or on your person?
If on your person...
I'll play omni-advocate and say, run the omnis HRTF.
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Omni's
when you are that close the stage and pa volume will easily overwhelm the crowd noise. You can run omni's in far more circumstances than people realize.
besides which, it's moe. - there will be plenty of other nice and safe card tapes to enjoy later. With omni's that close you have a chance to make a different tape that could very well be a GREAT tape.
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So I've got 12th row center seats at the Palace in Albany for moe. on Friday night. I'm leaning towards using the omni caps on my CA11s. Anyone have any thoughts on this? Thanks!
Phil
Here are my thoughts. On this subject.
When your in a good sounding room and you are close to the sound source use omni mics. When your far away from the sound source use cardioid mics. I think for stage taping for example I would use a pair of spaced omni mics or omni mics with some kind of baffle * your head * or a jecklin disk * When you are close to the source, the crowd noise is not as much of an issue because the direct energy from the band/pa out overpowers the sound from the crowd around you. So you end up with a pretty clean tape. There are always exceptions to any rule though.
Chris
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cards, you don't want all the crowd on your tape do you?
that's right. Because we all know cards never pick up crowd ::) ;)
Edit: run the omnis
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I would run cards.
maybe up to 5 th row run omni's. Just my personal experience. I run omni's up to 5th row even at 40,000 person concert. I tend to run cards for everything else. Even for recent Van Halen i ran cards from 12th row for 2 nights. I just dont even like the crowd noise in between songs with omni's unless I am really close--just a personal thing
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Cards would be best. Given you run them properly.
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So it looks like the omnis will be the choice. I will be using a stand and have a couple different mounts. For those of you who suggested using cards, which method would be best? My inclination would be ORTF.
Thanks again for all the guidance. Thanks also to Chris Church for some nice gear.
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cards, you don't want all the crowd on your tape do you?
that's right. Because we all know cards never pick up crowd ::) ;)
Edit: run the omnis
The answer is: "it depends".
Hear my cards 12-15 ft from the stage, pointing right at the PA speakers, 10 ft up, front of the board, with a "lip" to deflect what is behind me:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,100075.0.html
A lot of chatter...
I guess I need shotguns for that venue ;)
--Michael
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The answer is: "it depends".
Hear my cards 12-15 ft from the stage, pointing right at the PA speakers, 10 ft up, front of the board, with a "lip" to deflect what is behind me:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,100075.0.html
A lot of chatter...
I guess I need shotguns for that venue ;)
--Michael
taping a band in a bar with the requisite sized PA is different than taping moe. with a substantial PA in a theater
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The answer is: "it depends".
Hear my cards 12-15 ft from the stage, pointing right at the PA speakers, 10 ft up, front of the board, with a "lip" to deflect what is behind me:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,100075.0.html
A lot of chatter...
I guess I need shotguns for that venue ;)
--Michael
taping a band in a bar with the requisite sized PA is different than taping moe. with a substantial PA in a theater
what he said. and i have made some pertty chatty shotgun tapes before
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The answer is: "it depends".
Hear my cards 12-15 ft from the stage, pointing right at the PA speakers, 10 ft up, front of the board, with a "lip" to deflect what is behind me:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,100075.0.html
A lot of chatter...
I guess I need shotguns for that venue ;)
--Michael
taping a band in a bar with the requisite sized PA is different than taping moe. with a substantial PA in a theater
Agreed. Touche +T
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It's largely a matter of personal preference IMO.
I only run omnis HRTF. To me omnis sound more natural, chatter & all, compared to what I feel is the "sterility" of cards. That said, I have had times that if I'd been using cards I would've had a better recording due to cutting an overabundance of "chattiness."
So, as I said, it's up to your preference. I'd think at that distance you could use the omnis & get a great recording without much problem from chatters.
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Just in case anyone was wondering - I used the omni caps for the first set. I was a little left of center and the levels appeared to be affected by this. The right channel was considerably hotter. So I switched to the cards for set 2 and the levels were even. When I got home, I do believe that the card caps worked better. The sound is a little more defined.
The question I now have is: Will the levels always be this unbalanced (using omnis) when not centered in the room? It didn't sound that way in the room and it isn't obvious to the ear upon playback, but I am thinking that a good recording would never be that off. Watching the difference on the deck face is kind of frustrating...
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It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with omni vs. card.
Your particular pair of cardioid mics may be better matched than your particular pair of omnis.
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philf, I usually find that if the main mikes weren't in a position where they captured a pretty good acoustical balance in the first place, there's no amount of knob twiddling that can make it right afterward. If they're off by just a small amount, that usually can be touched up pretty well. But if the microphones were really in "not so good" places, then the whole premise of two-microphone stereo recording kinda breaks down.
An ordinary mismatch between two properly working microphones of the same type isn't usually a big issue, but if that's really your main problem, you can compensate by adjusting the channel balance and if necessary, a touch of EQ. If you can't, then that wasn't your problem in the first place.
On the third hand, so to speak--if that kind of compensation is really necessary for good results, I'd look to trade up to something with better production consistency! But spaced microphone pairs are less dependent on a precise match than coincident or near-coincident microphone pairs are anyway. For spaced pairs, the same sound isn't reaching both microphones at the same time, so the stereo effect depends to a great extent on which microphone the sound reaches first and by how much. With coincident or near-coincident pairs, the arrival time is the same at both microphones but the exact intensity that's picked up by each of the two microphones is the main (or only) variable that creates a difference between the channels. So the exact frequency response, sensitivity and polar response of the two microphones matters far more in close or coincident setups.
--best regards
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When I got home, I do believe that the card caps worked better. The sound is a little more defined.
this sounds to me like the basic sonic signature of omni's v. cards
omni's have a laid back and natural feel to them, cards - by nature of their directionality - have a more precise sound to them
Excellent post from Mr. Satz as well
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When I got home, I do believe that the card caps worked better. The sound is a little more defined.
this sounds to me like the basic sonic signature of omni's v. cards
omni's have a laid back and natural feel to them, cards - by nature of their directionality - have a more precise sound to them
Excellent post from Mr. Satz as well
As usual ;)
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Hello:
We setup a FAQ in this subject that may be of interest:
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?category=binvscardfaq
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Chris Carfagno
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