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Gear / Technical Help => Playback Forum => Topic started by: spcyrfc on April 03, 2008, 02:29:17 PM
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I just recently got a Yamaha receiver handed down to me along with some polk speakers. I know this gear aint the best, but couldn't beat the price and i got to start my playback somewhere.
The receiver does not have optical.
Right now the computer is hooked up via 1/8" headphone out to RCA jacks. The sound quality sucks. there is a very audible hiss (as i expected).
what are some cheap options out there to make the computer (Mac G5) more functional as a playback device.
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Transit-main.html (http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Transit-main.html) something like this?
or a UA-5?
thanks for the suggestions.
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I had a transit and I thought it sucked. I'd look elsewhere. UA-5 might be decent.
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I use a little cheapo Turtle Beach USB card. Laptop > long USB extention cable > Turtle Beach USB soundcard > optical cable > stereo. It works and sounds perfectly acceptable the way I use it. I use it's optical digital out though and can't comment on the DAC quality through the stereo. I do occasionally use the anlaog out to a headphone amp and it sounds much better than the crappy laptop headphone/line out jack. It's about the same as the M-Audio Transit probably. You may want something with a better DAC if primarily using the analog out.
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another thought, make sure you don't have the windows volume cranked, and make sure you don't have the application volume cranked. You prolly want most of the volume coming from the amp.
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another thought, make sure you don't have the windows volume cranked, and make sure you don't have the application volume cranked. You prolly want most of the volume coming from the amp.
True if you are using the wimpy analog headphone amp in the computer as line-out, set it around 3/4 volume to leave some headroom in the analog amp section. If using a USB or other soundcard you should turn the application volume (and probably windows volume too) all the way up or you will just be wasting bits as that's digital volume control I think. (ie- turn it down and it just scales the word depth down so you'd lose dynamic range). Easy enough to adjust, just listen and try different settings 'till it sounds best.
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The receiver doesn't have optical, but does it have coax? If so, just convert it.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=180-961
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I just sold my BMP2+ UA-5 in the yard, but I flat out LOVED it for playback.
laptop (via usb) > UA-5 (via RCA) > powered_monitors (...or into any other regular playback system).
Busman's BMP2+ also improves the RCA outs, and it really does the trick. I had some sick clean sound right into (relatively cheap) Behringer B2031a monitors. Sick (for the price). Here's the description Busman sent me by email last year, btw:
The mod consists of a complete op amp change out along with input capacitors and bypass caps and phantom cap changes. I also change out the op amp for the RCA input/ouput and do capacitor work there as well.
I almost kept that box just for the playback, but I was picking up a 660... Huh. And now here I am hunting threads trying to figure out what I'm gonna do for playback... I may just start saving my pennies for another BMP2+ ::) :P
I'm listening along for other suggestions people have...
- Dave
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Found a bunch of leads here: http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,86136.0.html ...
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Looking through that other thread, there are really good alternatives to the UA-5 if you just want the unit for playback. I'm really interested in the DAC707 Super Pro USB or the very similar "Fubar II" USB DAC
, although these don't have volume knobs or headphone outs. I bet these sound great, and for only $110 - $120...
For a bit more money I see the iFi Audio MD10 has heaphone outs, but still no volume knob. [another edit: Fubar III has both!] The great thing about all three of these is that they list very good opamps (the kinds of chips that mod-ers use for upgrades), so they should be on par with a modded UA-5 for playback at a much reduced price.
Other cheap USB boxes are things like the M-Audio Fast Track, the Mackie/Tapco "Link USB", or the e-mu "0202 USB", but I'd recommend the ua-5 over these because you have the chance for future mods/upgrades.
If you also want the box for recording, then I'd recommend trying to find a BMP2+ ua-5. For just playback, there are comparable boxes for cheaper. See that other thread for more details and links.
Good luck!
Dave
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I use the super pro dac-in-the-box together with a pc-link, which is a usb external soundcard. Works great for me.
http://www.obadimports.com/catalog/item/4377355/4684274.htm
This is where I got the DAC from, and they were fine to do biz with. They also sell the super pro 707 mentioned above, which should work the same as the pc-link and super dac combo I use.
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I use the super pro dac-in-the-box together with a pc-link, which is a usb external soundcard. Works great for me.
http://www.obadimports.com/catalog/item/4377355/4684274.htm
This is where I got the DAC from, and they were fine to do biz with. They also sell the super pro 707 mentioned above, which should work the same as the pc-link and super dac combo I use.
that obad stuff looks interesting. The difference between the 2 ("DAC in the box" vs. 707) is usb capability?
http://www.obadimports.com/page/page/4377355.htm (http://www.obadimports.com/page/page/4377355.htm)
the foobar III is also pretty cool looking device. anyone here use that
http://www.firestone-audio.com/cgi-bin/product.asp?pdtseqnm=14 (http://www.firestone-audio.com/cgi-bin/product.asp?pdtseqnm=14)
so i would take the optical signal from my computer > One of these boxes > receiver. is it that simple?
*will the same path work if i go USB?
Todd, what was your deciding factor in favor of obad?
thanks for the advice all around
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that obad stuff looks interesting. Probably the route i will go. The difference between the 2 (DAC in the box vs. 707) is usb capability?
so i would take the optical signal from my computer > One of these boxes > receiver. is it that simple?
*will the same path work if i go USB?
thanks for the advice all around
You got it right.
FYI, it looks like the CM108 USB chipset used in the Super Pro DAC 707 only supports up to 44.1/48kHz though [edit: I don't know this for sure!!!], so 24/96 is probably only supported via the coax & optical digi ins, not the USB. (See CM108 data sheet here: http://www.cmedia.com.tw/files/doc/USB/CM108%20DataSheet%20v1.6.pdf (http://www.cmedia.com.tw/files/doc/USB/CM108%20DataSheet%20v1.6.pdf), page 5). Seems like lots of the USB interfaces are limited in this regard. The ua-5 has a custom ASIO driver which allows it to do 24/96 over USB(only one direction at a time, not bi), but I'm not sure how many other USB boxes really support the higher rates...
If you've got optical out and want to connect to a receiver, that DAC-in-the-box looks like a great match.
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I went with the Dac in the box together with the pc-link rather than just the dac alone since my soundcard is only 16 bits and (theoretically) the pc-link is 24 bits. If you've got a soundcard with coax or optical out, the Dac in the box should work fine.
I went with Obad imports since they have a package deal on the DAC and the Trends Audio TA-10 digital amp, which is what I got. So for an office playback system I have pc-link 24bit USB soundcard> Super DAC> Trends TA-10> Monitor Audio Bronze 1 speakers (replacing my Soliloquy SAT5 speakers that I just moved into the family room). I really like the TA-10 and think the TA-10>small speakers is a great alternative to using active monitors.
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I just recently got a Yamaha receiver handed down to me along with some polk speakers. I know this gear aint the best, but couldn't beat the price and i got to start my playback somewhere.
The receiver does not have optical.
Right now the computer is hooked up via 1/8" headphone out to RCA jacks. The sound quality sucks. there is a very audible hiss (as i expected).
what are some cheap options out there to make the computer (Mac G5) more functional as a playback device.
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Transit-main.html (http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Transit-main.html) something like this?
or a UA-5?
thanks for the suggestions.
I use the ESI Juli@ (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart_accessories&A=details&Q=&sku=404522&is=REG) and really enjoy it.
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An update from my own search, FWIW...
The folks over at http://www.head-fi.org have a ga-ZILLION posts about playback devices of all sorts. Here are a few pieces of hardware you might consider for playback on a budget (mostly USB solutions):
Firestore Fubar III USB $229 http://www.audiophileproducts.com/
diyeden SVDAC04 $189 http://store.pacificvalve.us/svdac04.html
e-mu (does 24/96) 0404 $189 http://www.audiomidi.com/master.cfm?CID=329
Travagans White $290 http://shop.travagans.com/product.php?act=page&id=21
leckerton uh-3 $189 ebay or www.leckertonaudio.com
Headstage Lyrix USB $159 http://www.headstage.com/ (sells new for less on ebay)
meier audio corda 2move $275 http://www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/
The Headamp Pico and RSA Predator are the hot items these days for small portable all-in-one's at around $500. The Pico gets a lot of attention for an upsampling digital section.
And a few threads over there related to some of those boxes:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/mini-review-six-usb-dac-amps-rsa-predator-headamp-pico-2move-ibasso-d2-d1-headstage-lyrix-306883/
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/review-portable-amp-roundup-37-portable-amps-reviewed-compared-214588/
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/review-headstage-usb-dac-also-reviewed-meier-headsix-ibasso-d1-headstage-lyrix-265223/
Most of the boxes listed above are all-in-one's, but pretty decent separate components can be assembled without too much cost also. On that path you'd need:
a transport box (USB=>digi) > DAC > preamp / headphone amp / sound system.
Separate components offer some real advantages both in sound quality and in ability to make future upgrades -- e.g. I'd expect to see a lot more USB 2.0 transport boxes showing up which support 24/96 and higher rates in the future, while today's moderately-priced DACs are getting pretty good already, and amps are even more mature...
I'm picking up an iBasso D2 myself, so I hope to be set for a while. (This box had just a small pre-production run, but should be coming available again soon.) If you're still looking, I wish you luck! And as the head-fi guys are fond of saying... sorry about your wallet. ;)
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I use the ESI Juli@ (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart_accessories&A=details&Q=&sku=404522&is=REG) and really enjoy it.
I use the ESI Juli@ as well, great sound for a reasonable price.
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Yes, lots more than just USB interfaces out there. PCI sound cards (like the Juli@) if you have a desktop. For laptops, it's usually either USB or Firewire or PCMCIA, unless you've got digi-out already (Macs, I'm told). Then there are a few wireless solutions too...