Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: NOLAfishwater on April 17, 2008, 11:49:46 AM
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-continue here
Part I: http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,93002.0.html
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Why the lockdown? We had a whole 'nother page to go! ;)
(checkin in)
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Bean, to answer your question. I have found that the microphones are very natural sounding. The mid ranges are smooth and not as prominent as with my 460's. Low end pickup is rediculous. I think I am going to run roll off on my V3 when I tape in venues with bigger pa stacks. You can really hear the bass line clearly and the kick drum is smooth and not muddy. The highs are extremely acurate without being brittle. Vocals are natural/warm and do not stand out in the mix. All in all I have been happy with them. If I had to give them a description I would say that they are warm/natural sounding with excellent high end sizzle.
The size is another selling point for me as they are tiny. You really don't need remote cable. For the money you could have GreatGumbino make you a set of high quality silver RA stubbys.
However, once the remote cables start shipping, I bet people will find that they will probably work with the schoeps mounting setups.
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Official (I have just been on the phone to Mike Pappas in the USA).
The 5-meter remote cable - MZL 8005 - will be the same price as the 10-metre cable.
Mike says he will answer e-mails when he gets back to the office after the show, which is why some have not had a reply yet. But it's all been sorted as all the relevant people from Germany are at the NAB show.
so - same price as 10-metre. ;D
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Official (I have just been on the phone to Mike Pappas in the USA).
The 5-meter remote cable - MZL 8005 - will be the same price as the 10-metre cable.
Mike says he will answer e-mails when he gets back to the office after the show, which is why some have not had a reply yet. But it's all been sorted as all the relevant people from Germany are at the NAB show.
so - same price as 10-metre. ;D
I have no problems with that - just want to know when I can get mine. ;)
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I have no problems with that - just want to know when I can get mine. ;)
I think Mike is beating up Germany on that now ;)
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I guess I should email mike :)
thanks John! +T
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Hey guys... think about this...
if the 5m is the same as the 10m... why?... also - if this answer had been provided last year we could all have save the 30% price increase... :-\
Now we will pay for material we are not getting and additional costs due to exchange rates.
They should do better.... ???
CQBert
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Hey guys... think about this...
if the 5m is the same as the 10m... why?... also - if this answer had been provided last year we could all have save the 30% price increase... :-\
Now we will pay for material we are not getting and additional costs due to exchange rates.
They should do better.... ???
CQBert
I was told this answer in December and ordered at that time to avoid the 30% increase
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I was never given a firm price or delivery and refused to give them any more money until they could provide accurate information.
CQBert
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Hey guys... think about this...
if the 5m is the same as the 10m... why?... also - if this answer had been provided last year we could all have save the 30% price increase... :-\
Now we will pay for material we are not getting and additional costs due to exchange rates.
They should do better.... ???
CQBert
Well you could say that because they are a custom item they incur higher costs than the 10m cables, so getting them for the same price isn't that bad of a deal.
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I know... at the end of the day my frustration is why did it take 4 months to come up with this stroke of genius...
This could have been done on Day-1
CQBert
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This could have been done on Day-1
Yeah, but then we would have had you whine about it. :P
Actually, I was surprised it took them as long as it did to get several items out the door. Including the shock mount.
Wayne
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of course i am not sure but i would take a guess that the price is the same in order to try and discourage people from custom ordering and just get you to buy the 10 meters
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Please do not mistake my disgust with a BS Decision making process for whining...
Wayne - since you have seen one of the mythical shock mounts - how is the quality?
Thanks -
CQBert
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Please do not mistake my disgust with a BS Decision making process for whining...
Wayne - since you have seen one of the mythical shock mounts - how is the quality?
That's what I hate about email/forums/etc. sarcasm is lost. I was joking about the whining part.
The build quality seems quite good. I have for the boom pole, and it should work very well in that situation. Handling noise might be another issue. I've been busy with some music recording sessions and won't have a chance until next week to see how bad or good the handling noise is using it. But overall, it's a pretty nice shock mount and it seems that only Rycote has anything else for these mics.
Wayne
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All good Wayne!!! :coolguy:
Thanks for the update!!
CQBert
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Hey guys... think about this...
if the 5m is the same as the 10m... why?...
It's because the 5m is a special and the 10m is a standard product.
It costs more to make a one-off special than a production line unit. Also, there is no difference in costs at all between the two other than the small cost of 5m of cable which is the extra cost of doing a special.
In fact I am surprised it is this cheap as, normally, specials tend to be even more.
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- since you have seen one of the mythical shock mounts - how is the quality?
The quality of the shockmount is good (as per normal Sennheiser), however, I will be using the Rycote InVision mounts with my MKH 8020 and 8040 as the "Lyre" suspension is technically better than any rubber suspension. This is my personal choice.
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can we please talk about the microphones instead of pricing. It is unfortunate that price for a shorter custom length is the same as a standard longer length, but that is the price you pay for custom. Actually I doubt the 10 meter cables would take up that much more room in your taping bage. They look to be really small. Plus, if you ever need the extra length for running lip of stage or clamping up high, you have got it. If I get a pair, I will probably just go with the 10 meter set.
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can we please talk about the microphones instead of pricing. It is unfortunate that price for a shorter custom length is the same as a standard longer length, but that is the price you pay for custom. Actually I doubt the 10 meter cables would take up that much more room in your taping bage. They look to be really small. Plus, if you ever need the extra length for running lip of stage or clamping up high, you have got it. If I get a pair, I will probably just go with the 10 meter set.
That's a LOT of cable, though.
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Fair enough... no more on $'s until I get a final word on the questions I have asked... one last post with them but other than that ...
Back to your regularly scheduled thread content....
CQBert
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Just got back from a gig - Jason Mraz at the NorVa. The show sounded AWFUL in the room. Pretty much all you could hear was kick drum, waaaaay too much low end. But listening to the show right now and I'm very surprised at how it came out. I'll probably have to roll a bit off in post, but overall it's a good tape! I'll post a sample as soon as I have it.
The mics are definitely impressing me.
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Sample from last night:
http://www.thejokell.com/music/GeekInThePink.mp3
Info - mics were FOB slightly ROC, 10.5' high, in basically ORTF (I had to guestimate). Place was PACKED with people so there's some chatter. No high pass was applied to this, but I may do it to the whole thing before I put it on the archive. Slight compression (3:1 at -5db) and normalized. Overall I'm pretty pleased, especially considering how I *thought* it was going to sound. ;)
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Sounds fine.... you do not get to control the digital sub-bass....
Mids and highs nice and clean... decent image considering where you were.
Good Work +T
CQBert
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Thanks man! I'm really digging these mics. Just hope I can get the remote cables soon and get the setup really the way I want it.
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http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=514850
Widespread Panic
Amphitheatre at the Wharf
4/20/08
Orange Beach, AL
Sennheiser MKH8040ST>V3>MTII 24/44.1
FOB, Stand @ 10.5', ~12' ROC, ~80' from stage
Dither, fades, and tracking applied in Soundforge 8.0
Taped and transferred by: NOLAfishwater louie.liokis @ gmail.com
DISK I
Set 1 -
Intro
Little Kin >
Disco >
Angels on High
Dyin Man
City of Dreams >
PAYMH >
Ribs and Whiskey
Fixin to Die >
Tall Boy
DISK II
Set 2 -
Intro
Solid Rock >
Pigeons
Vampire Blues
Tortured Artist
Chilly Water >
Drums >
DISK III
Jam >
Bust It Big >
Chilly Water
Ride Me High >
Pilgrims
Encore -
Last Straw >
Ain't Life Grand
End of the Show
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Hi Folks,
Sorry for the delay in getting back to everyone but I just got back from the NAB Show in Las Vegas and I am slogging through the several hundred emails that are stuffing up my in box..
The 5 meter extension cable sets are $222.16 each retail (USD). These are not standard production lengths and as such are custom built by the Sennheiser Custom shop in Germany. Since there has been such interest in the 5 meter lengths, Sennheiser Electronic Corp. (SEC) will be stocking a small quantity of these to keep the lead times manageable. I would think we would have them in inventory in about 3 to 4 weeks depending upon how long it takes to have the Custom Shop knock them out.
As others have mentioned shock mounts are now shipping also.
Additionally we have MKH 800 Twins in production and SEC should be receiving them in the next week or so.
If anyone has any further questions please email me directly at mpappas (at) sennheiserusa (dot) com
Best regards,
Mike Pappas
Senior Applications Engineer
Sennheiser Electronic Corp.
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Got mine ordered this morning. Thanks for all your help Mike!
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thanks for all the help Mike :)
I was told yesterday that mine would be here in about 3 weeks
got my mini clips today
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Thanks Mike -
CQBert
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Additionally we have MKH 800 Twins in production and SEC should be receiving them in the next week or so.
What are the MKH800s?
Do you think that the remote cables will work with existing shempz kwon/din/ortf bars?
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What are the MKH800s?
The MKH 800 (http://www.sennheiser.co.uk/uk/icm.nsf/root/04927#) is the switchable-pattern MKH microphone - superb and goes up to 50kHz (I have a pair).
(http://www.sennheiser.co.uk/uk/icm.nsf/resources/C1256F140044E469C1256F4E005E39ED/$File/04927_pro2.jpg)
The new MKH 800 TWIN (http://www.sennheiser.com/sennheiser/icm_eng.nsf/root/502083) is based on the MKH 800 but has the two back-to-back cardioid capsules available separately on a 5-pin XLR.
This makes the mic. extremely flexible. You can have an infinitely variable polar-pattern. If you record both capsules on different tracks you can alter the polar-pattern in the DAW at the editing stage. If you have a nasty acoustic (for example) you can put filters / EQ on the rear capsule only without having to do anythin on the front capsule. With a fig-8 as well you can do Double-MS (MSM) recording and get full 5.1 from just these three capsules. You can delay the rear capsule, etc...........
Extremely flexible and available in Nickel (http://www.sennheiser.com/sennheiser/icm_eng.nsf/root/502431#) as well as the Nextel (same colour as MKH 8000) version linked to above.
(http://www.sennheiser.com/sennheiser/icm_eng.nsf/resources/FE77DE48CF1DD9CBC125742F002FF3F5/$File/MKH_800_Nx.jpg)
(http://www.sennheiser.com/sennheiser/icm_eng.nsf/resources/0EFB5E0BBE044D04C125742F002FF46F/$File/MKH_800_Ni.jpg)
The TWIN was launched at NAB last week and will be launched in Europe at the AES in Amsterdam next month.
About three years ago I made some double-MS recordings using a very early TWIN prototype and an MKH 30 - they sounded amazing - so I'm glad it's now out.
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nifty!
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That thing look sweet! Thanks for posting that. +T
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My shocks just shipped and my 5m's are now ordered...
Same wait - 2-3 weeks...
CQBert
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From last Saturday:
http://www.archive.org/details/mraz2008-04-19.mkh4080st.flac24
I'll have a 16 bit up soon.
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here is a 16 bit sample from WSP 4/20/08 MKH8040ST>v3
Last Straw
http://www.sendspace.com/file/vm05i0
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My shock mounts just arrived... very nice... small and simple. Can't wait to use them..
CQBert
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got my mini clips last week
tried to fit them on my Schoeps CCM4s and the clips are too big
so, I'm guessing that the mics with the remote cables won't work with the schoeps kwon bars
I'm wondering if they will work with the neumann kwon bars
:)
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man, after seeing a set of these last weekend, it looks like actives are not needed. some slim wire stubby xlr's seem like that would be sweet. these mic bodies are freaking tiny!
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got my mini clips last week
tried to fit them on my Schoeps CCM4s and the clips are too big
so, I'm guessing that the mics with the remote cables won't work with the schoeps kwon bars
I'm wondering if they will work with the neumann kwon bars
:)
I've worked it out with Robert to send him my mics and cables as soon as they're in. He's going to test them with his current bars and see what he would need to do to make new ones. I'll let you guys know as soon as he tells me.
man, after seeing a set of these last weekend, it looks like actives are not needed. some slim wire stubby xlr's seem like that would be sweet. these mic bodies are freaking tiny!
True, but I like the idea of the kwon bar in a shure donut. VERY low profile.
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got my mini clips last week
tried to fit them on my Schoeps CCM4s and the clips are too big
so, I'm guessing that the mics with the remote cables won't work with the schoeps kwon bars
I'm wondering if they will work with the neumann kwon bars
:)
I've worked it out with Robert to send him my mics and cables as soon as they're in. He's going to test them with his current bars and see what he would need to do to make new ones. I'll let you guys know as soon as he tells me.
man, after seeing a set of these last weekend, it looks like actives are not needed. some slim wire stubby xlr's seem like that would be sweet. these mic bodies are freaking tiny!
True, but I like the idea of the kwon bar in a shure donut. VERY low profile.
awesome, thanks John :)
and I agree, kwon bar, shure donut, low profile and very easy to setup and breakdown
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here is a pic from friday. louie had them on top with my 460's under it. they look tiny with my akg's under them
there are some more pics with them setup in the rig picture forum here http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,102936.0.html
i am interested in hearing them now after seeing them. Louie, seed that stuff
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those new Senns are sexy!!!
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I am putting the MKH8040's in the mail for you Jim. Thanks for letting me run them for so long. I taped 12 shows with them from 3/30 - 5/1. All coming on DVDs in the package.
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I am putting the MKH8040's in the mail for you Jim. Thanks for letting me run them for so long. I taped 12 shows with them from 3/30 - 5/1. All coming on DVDs in the package.
having run them for a dozen shows, can you share your opinion of their sound, manufacture, ease of use, opinion on coloration if any? thanks
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Bean, to answer your question. I have found that the microphones are very natural sounding. The mid ranges are smooth and not as prominent as with my 460's. Low end pickup is rediculous. I think I am going to run roll off on my V3 when I tape in venues with bigger pa stacks. You can really hear the bass line clearly and the kick drum is smooth and not muddy. The highs are extremely acurate without being brittle. Vocals are natural/warm and do not stand out in the mix. All in all I have been happy with them. If I had to give them a description I would say that they are warm/natural sounding with excellent high end sizzle.
The size is another selling point for me as they are tiny. You really don't need remote cable. For the money you could have GreatGumbino make you a set of high quality silver RA stubbys.
However, once the remote cables start shipping, I bet people will find that they will probably work with the schoeps mounting setups.
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based on that description, the sound appears to be very similar to AKG 480's, that being that they have a pronounded bass response and accurate high end sizzle with not too much midrange, but perhaps a little warmer in overall sound to the 480's, would that be right? oh but with active cable capacity ;)
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Just got an update on my remote cables - they're supposed to "hit the States" on 5/22. I should have them soon after.
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based on that description, the sound appears to be very similar to AKG 480's, that being that they have a pronounded bass response and accurate high end sizzle with not too much midrange, but perhaps a little warmer in overall sound to the 480's, would that be right? oh but with active cable capacity ;)
much clearer/more natural low end pick up. especially the bass line. the high frequency response is way more detailed than the akgs. however, the mid seem to not be as prominent as with the akgs.
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interesting, especially since one of the most frequent complaints about 480's is their lack of midrange pick up
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interesting, especially since one of the most frequent complaints about 480's is their lack of midrange pick up
well, in comparison to the 8040's, the 480's have a better guitar and vocal pickup, however , the 8040's sound much more natural. What I have found is that for louder shows I have had to boost the mids slightly, with excellent results.
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I was in the chapel of New College, Oxford today; recording evensong with an ORTF pair of MKH 8040 with MKH 8020 outriggers.
As it was a test session I will have to wait to hear the results, though, as it was recorded on a friend's SADiE.
One thing I did find though - is that the MKH 8040 heads fit perfectly into the DPA ORTF mount.
(http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec06/images/dpa3521header_l.jpg)
I know the pic. shows the DPA heads, but the MKH 8040 fit perfectly - I tried it.
Now, to chat up my mates at DPA............................
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I was in the chapel of New College, Oxford today; recording evensong with an ORTF pair of MKH 8040 with MKH 8020 outriggers.
As it was a test session I will have to wait to hear the results, though, as it was recorded on a friend's SADiE.
One thing I did find though - is that the MKH 8040 heads fit perfectly into the DPA ORTF mount.
(http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec06/images/dpa3521header_l.jpg)
I know the pic. shows the DPA heads, but the MKH 8040 fit perfectly - I tried it.
Now, to chat up my mates at DPA............................
nice discovery John. how much are those mounts anyways?
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I am putting the MKH8040's in the mail for you Jim. Thanks for letting me run them for so long. I taped 12 shows with them from 3/30 - 5/1. All coming on DVDs in the package.
thanks :)
I'm glad you got some good use out of them 8)
+T
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I was in the chapel of New College, Oxford today; recording evensong with an ORTF pair of MKH 8040 with MKH 8020 outriggers.
As it was a test session I will have to wait to hear the results, though, as it was recorded on a friend's SADiE.
One thing I did find though - is that the MKH 8040 heads fit perfectly into the DPA ORTF mount.
(http://www.dpamicrophones.com/Images/DM00775.jpg)
The MKH 8040 fit perfectly - I tried it.
nice discovery John. how much are those mounts anyways?
The mount is the DPA CXO 4000 and it retails for £85 +VAT in the UK - I have no idea what the US price is, I'm afraid.
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http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/282473-REG/DPA_Microphones_CXO4000_Compact_XY_ORTF_Stereo_Holder.html
They are not necessarily the cheapest... but easy to work with..
$122.95
They also have just the compact x/y at $95.95
CQBert
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i can't afford these but damn they seem nice
can't wait to hear crumbos dmb recordings with these
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I bet that would work for the Neumann KM100 line as well. Never checked this mount out before. Nice design. Could be a good (and cheaper) alternative to the STH100.
I was in the chapel of New College, Oxford today; recording evensong with an ORTF pair of MKH 8040 with MKH 8020 outriggers.
As it was a test session I will have to wait to hear the results, though, as it was recorded on a friend's SADiE.
One thing I did find though - is that the MKH 8040 heads fit perfectly into the DPA ORTF mount.
(http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec06/images/dpa3521header_l.jpg)
I know the pic. shows the DPA heads, but the MKH 8040 fit perfectly - I tried it.
Now, to chat up my mates at DPA............................
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I bet that would work for the Neumann KM100 line as well. Never checked this mount out before. Nice design. Could be a good (and cheaper) alternative to the STH100.
Definitely cheaper than buying an STH100 new. On the other hand, the STH guarantees that the Neumanns are correctly spaced for ORTF where as the DPA mount only guarantees angle. On the other hand, it would be easy enough to adjust the capsules to the proper depth in the DPA mount and then just make a mark on the mount for use next time. I never really liked how tight the STH100 was... :hmmm:
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now if only they could get that left mic to fit properly into its own mount, we'd be set ! ;D
(dpa guy that saw that glaring issue)
Saw that too but didn't want to say anything. ;)
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Lynchie had those DPA mounts with the new rubber straps shown in the pic (as opposed to the simple O-rings on mine). They are IMPOSSIBLE to use. I gave up on getting my mics in there (we were going to run 4 in a mount) and ran my own on the same stand. What a PITA.
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For info - Senneheiser will be showing the AES42 digital module at the AES in Amsterdam (Saturday to Tuesday) if anyone wants to see it in the flesh. Not in the shops 'till late in the year, though.
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My remote cables should be here very soon, maybe as early as Friday.
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Well this thread sure has died down. My remote cables are stuck in customs. :(
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now if only they could get that left mic to fit properly into its own mount, we'd be set ! ;D
(dpa guy that saw that glaring issue)
Saw that too but didn't want to say anything. ;)
What am I missing? What isn't fitting?
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now if only they could get that left mic to fit properly into its own mount, we'd be set ! ;D
(dpa guy that saw that glaring issue)
Saw that too but didn't want to say anything. ;)
What am I missing? What isn't fitting?
The left mount should fit into the "groove" of the mic, but it's not.
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I called and was told June 9th for my cables... a few weeks ago..
I think customs is a cover....
I am just hoping they are here for a show on the 20th..
CQBert
>>> First one with them owes the thread photos..
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I called and was told June 9th for my cables... a few weeks ago..
I think customs is a cover....
I am just hoping they are here for a show on the 20th..
CQBert
>>> First one with them owes the thread photos..
Did you go through the guy I sent you? Because he told me a couple of weeks ago that they had made it state side. He's been up front with me so far so I don't have a reason not to trust him.
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anyone selling theirs in the YS yet?
;)
or wanna let me borrow a pair for a bit...
I am really eager to try them out...
peace
-- Ian
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Ian...
Send me a PM... you are welcome to borrow...
CQBert
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Now Sennheiser says my cables will be here on the 23rd. I'm holding my breath...
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John....
I am in the same boat... stuck waiting for Senn again!
I get out so little anymore I am really gonna be PO'd if my stuff is not hear for the 20th show up in Santa Monica at McCabe's
CQBert
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John....
I am in the same boat... stuck waiting for Senn again!
I get out so little anymore I am really gonna be PO'd if my stuff is not hear for the 20th show up in Santa Monica at McCabe's
CQBert
I was really hoping to have them for Sunday (Toad at the NorVA). Now I just want them for the July 25th Counting Crows show.
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Ian...
Send me a PM... you are welcome to borrow...
CQBert
CQBert
Wow
really well thanx
and I'll send a PM very soon!
it would be super awesome !!! :)
-- Ian
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Just taped Toad the Wet Sprocket at the Norva - these mics continue to impress me every time I take them out. It's an awesome tape. I'll be putting it on the archive this evening.
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Way to go John... I am rolling a show on FRI at McCabe's in Santa Monica... will do a Matrix with the mics for the first time..
I will be looking on Archive in a day or two.
CQBert
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Toad show from Sunday:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,105603.0.html
All I did was boost the levels in post. No processing done on the file other than that. While at first listen it may sound a bit bass heavy that is exactly how it sounded in the room. I could feel the subs hit back at the soundboard. Sometimes they over-do it at the Norva, but I'm pleased with how it turned out.
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Woohoo! My remote cables shipped today, I'll have them tomorrow. ;D
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You win... you owe pictures!!! ;D
Downloading Toad Now..
CQBert
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Alright, well here are pictures.
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And now I have my cables but no way to mount them with a show on Thursday. I'm hoping Robert Kwon gets back to me about the Kwonbar setup soon.
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took a couple of days off work and came back to my cables sitting here....looks like they arrived last Thursday
I'll take some pics when I get home :)
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And now I have my cables but no way to mount them with a show on Thursday. I'm hoping Robert Kwon gets back to me about the Kwonbar setup soon.
I can loan you a five inch kwon bar with a riser mount, but I need it back by this time next week for Rothbury, pm me if you want to borrow it, you can peep it in use in my rig pic post about my "new tiny rig"
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And now I have my cables but no way to mount them with a show on Thursday. I'm hoping Robert Kwon gets back to me about the Kwonbar setup soon.
I can loan you a five inch kwon bar with a riser mount, but I need it back by this time next week for Rothbury, pm me if you want to borrow it, you can peep it in use in my rig pic post about my "new tiny rig"
That's not a Kwon bar. ;) This is what a Kwon bar is:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,29225.0.html
I can't remember the name of that setup that you have. But I would need clips for the mics to use something like what you have and I don't have them (because I should be getting a kwon bar setup soon).
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Toad show from Sunday:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,105603.0.html
All I did was boost the levels in post. No processing done on the file other than that. While at first listen it may sound a bit bass heavy that is exactly how it sounded in the room. I could feel the subs hit back at the soundboard. Sometimes they over-do it at the Norva, but I'm pleased with how it turned out.
Great sounding recording!
Todd
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my camera sucks :P
(http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/1475/senns009mg3.th.jpg) (http://img183.imageshack.us/my.php?image=senns009mg3.jpg)
comparison to the ccm4s
(http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/5870/sennsdg0.th.jpg) (http://img206.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sennsdg0.jpg)
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my camera sucks :P
(http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/1475/senns009mg3.th.jpg) (http://img183.imageshack.us/my.php?image=senns009mg3.jpg)
comparison to the ccm4s
(http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/5870/sennsdg0.th.jpg) (http://img206.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sennsdg0.jpg)
do I understand from those pics Crumbo that Senn bodies are connected to one end of the extension cables in a female format and Senn connectors are also connected at the other end of the cables in a male format which then has a typical XLR connector so that interconnects of some type are required to plug into a preamp or all in one box? it appears that there are equally long Senn brand connectors at each end of the extension cables in those pics
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my camera sucks :P
(http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/1475/senns009mg3.th.jpg) (http://img183.imageshack.us/my.php?image=senns009mg3.jpg)
comparison to the ccm4s
(http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/5870/sennsdg0.th.jpg) (http://img206.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sennsdg0.jpg)
do I understand from those pics Crumbo that Senn bodies are connected to one end of the extension cables in a female format and Senn connectors are also connected at the other end of the cables in a male format which then has a typical XLR connector so that interconnects of some type are required to plug into a preamp or all in one box? it appears that there are equally long Senn brand connectors at each end of the extension cables in those pics
one end is the cap and one end is the body (i believe too, so yes you are right)
what i was going to say was the cable looks really thin but then seeing it by the schoeps its not really that thin i guess
did you guys get the "standard length" or did you special order a length?
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think you are right, I was expecting a cable like the DPA cable which has the three pronged XLR male outs at the end of this cable, but alas this is not the case, this Senn cable appears to just connect the cap and body like Schoeps does for example
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do I understand from those pics Crumbo that Senn bodies are connected to one end of the extension cables in a female format and Senn connectors are also connected at the other end of the cables in a male format which then has a typical XLR connector so that interconnects of some type are required to plug into a preamp or all in one box? it appears that there are equally long Senn brand connectors at each end of the extension cables in those pics
If your mic could fit in the XLR inputs of your recorder then you probably wouldn't need interconnects, but I wouldn't recommend it.
It's basically like any other active setup - caps on one end, bodies on the other. Only difference is that the body in this case is really only an XLR adapter - there's no circuitry in it at all.
Edit - Whoops, didn't notice there was another page. I think Crumbo and I both got the 5m custom cables, which is why they took so long to get here.
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do I understand from those pics Crumbo that Senn bodies are connected to one end of the extension cables in a female format and Senn connectors are also connected at the other end of the cables in a male format which then has a typical XLR connector so that interconnects of some type are required to plug into a preamp or all in one box? it appears that there are equally long Senn brand connectors at each end of the extension cables in those pics
The MKH 8000 series microphones screw in half - the top end is the microphone and the bottom end is the XLR connector.
You then separate the two halves and insert the remote cable in-between.
The picture shows the microphone at one end and the XLR at the other with the remote cable in the middle.
You then just plug the XLR end into a standard XLR lead to the pre-amp.
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Oops - I missed the extra page too, in replying.
However - to add to it all.....
Later this year Sennheiser will launch the MZD 8000 (http://www.sennheiser.com/sennheiser/icm_eng.nsf/root/502097) - this is an AES42 digital body that is used with the microphone in place of the XLR module.
So - in theory - you could put this at the other end of the remote cable and plug into a digital input. So this may help explain why the remote cable is as it is.
(http://www.sennheiser.com/sennheiser/icm_eng.nsf/resources/460ECA5301D930C3C125744A0043042F/$File/MZD_8000_m.jpg)
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Nifty. ;)
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do I understand from those pics Crumbo that Senn bodies are connected to one end of the extension cables in a female format and Senn connectors are also connected at the other end of the cables in a male format which then has a typical XLR connector so that interconnects of some type are required to plug into a preamp or all in one box? it appears that there are equally long Senn brand connectors at each end of the extension cables in those pics
If your mic could fit in the XLR inputs of your recorder then you probably wouldn't need interconnects, but I wouldn't recommend it.
It's basically like any other active setup - caps on one end, bodies on the other. Only difference is that the body in this case is really only an XLR adapter - there's no circuitry in it at all.
Edit - Whoops, didn't notice there was another page. I think Crumbo and I both got the 5m custom cables, which is why they took so long to get here.
yep
these *almost* fit into a schoeps kwon bar
John, you still hitting the DMB NC shows?
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do I understand from those pics Crumbo that Senn bodies are connected to one end of the extension cables in a female format and Senn connectors are also connected at the other end of the cables in a male format which then has a typical XLR connector so that interconnects of some type are required to plug into a preamp or all in one box? it appears that there are equally long Senn brand connectors at each end of the extension cables in those pics
If your mic could fit in the XLR inputs of your recorder then you probably wouldn't need interconnects, but I wouldn't recommend it.
It's basically like any other active setup - caps on one end, bodies on the other. Only difference is that the body in this case is really only an XLR adapter - there's no circuitry in it at all.
Edit - Whoops, didn't notice there was another page. I think Crumbo and I both got the 5m custom cables, which is why they took so long to get here.
yep
these *almost* fit into a schoeps kwon bar
John, you still hitting the DMB NC shows?
Too loose? Too tight?
And no I won't be at DMB in NC - have a business trip that negated that plan. :( Still will be at VA Beach and the Gorge, though.
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do I understand from those pics Crumbo that Senn bodies are connected to one end of the extension cables in a female format and Senn connectors are also connected at the other end of the cables in a male format which then has a typical XLR connector so that interconnects of some type are required to plug into a preamp or all in one box? it appears that there are equally long Senn brand connectors at each end of the extension cables in those pics
If your mic could fit in the XLR inputs of your recorder then you probably wouldn't need interconnects, but I wouldn't recommend it.
It's basically like any other active setup - caps on one end, bodies on the other. Only difference is that the body in this case is really only an XLR adapter - there's no circuitry in it at all.
Edit - Whoops, didn't notice there was another page. I think Crumbo and I both got the 5m custom cables, which is why they took so long to get here.
yep
these *almost* fit into a schoeps kwon bar
John, you still hitting the DMB NC shows?
Too loose? Too tight?
And no I won't be at DMB in NC - have a business trip that negated that plan. :( Still will be at VA Beach and the Gorge, though.
a tad too tight
since the cable is rubbery you could probably jam it in there but I don't really want to try
I can send you a kwon bar if you want to try it out
bummer about DMB, we could have done a nice comp ;D
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a tad too tight
since the cable is rubbery you could probably jam it in there but I don't really want to try
I can send you a kwon bar if you want to try it out
bummer about DMB, we could have done a nice comp ;D
Hmm...Well I wonder if I could bore out a Schoeps bar a little bit. Robert Kwon had actually gotten with me about making some bars for this set, but I haven't been able to get back in touch with him since then... I'm going to try an MBHO bar and see if they fit in there at all.
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John Kelly
thanx for the great pics of those sweet
"active" cables
I am so itching to try these out
and hopefully get some soon... may be next year?
thanx again
peace
-- ian
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If the "mic body" on the other end of the active cable is basically just an XLR adaptor (with no active circuitry, as is mentioned several times in this thread), why can't Senn just make an active cable that connects to the caps on one end, and then a standard XLR plug on the other?
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John -
If Robert is into the project let me know... I would be interested in at least a Din and ORTF...
+T for getting this rolling..
Thanks -
CQBErt
+T for Toad - sounds real nice
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If the "mic body" on the other end of the active cable is basically just an XLR adaptor (with no active circuitry, as is mentioned several times in this thread), why can't Senn just make an active cable that connects to the caps on one end, and then a standard XLR plug on the other?
as is the case with DPA mics? my guess is the DPA's are specifically engineered to be body-less microphones witht the cap using the cable you describe, whereas from the appearance of the Senns they were not engineered to be used without the bodies, thus the cable you refer to would not work
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John -
If Robert is into the project let me know... I would be interested in at least a Din and ORTF...
+T for getting this rolling..
Thanks -
CQBErt
+T for Toad - sounds real nice
I will as soon as I hear from him. Until then I'm pursuing having a local machine shop make them for me with a supplied CAD drawing.
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If the "mic body" on the other end of the active cable is basically just an XLR adaptor (with no active circuitry, as is mentioned several times in this thread), why can't Senn just make an active cable that connects to the caps on one end, and then a standard XLR plug on the other?
Because it reduces the flexibility of the system.
Also - the cables are all stereo capable.
At the moment the cable can have one or two mics going down it (Y-cable coming) - at the other end can be the XLR-3 module, XLR-5 module (coming - I hope), MZD 8000 AES42 digital module, etc.
As it is now you can plug one extension into another to make a longer one - or have two heads on a catenery one on a 3m cable the other on a y-cable, the end of the 3m is connected into the other half of the y-cable and the output of the y-cable connected to a 10m cable, etc....... (for example).
A very flexible system.
For XLR they would have to do cables in all lengths with both XLR-3 and XLR-5 options.
They may come eventually - but if you need an XLR version, just cut off one end and solder on an XLR.
I hope this is clear.
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John -
If Robert is into the project let me know... I would be interested in at least a Din and ORTF...
+T for getting this rolling..
Thanks -
CQBErt
+T for Toad - sounds real nice
I will as soon as I hear from him. Until then I'm pursuing having a local machine shop make them for me with a supplied CAD drawing.
I'd like to get in line for this too :)
looking for a DIN and DINa bar
thanks John!
+T
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Yeah I told him others would definitely want in. I'll let you guys know if/when I hear back from him.
If I can't get up with him and go with the local machinist, would you guys be interested in those?
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Yeah I told him others would definitely want in. I'll let you guys know if/when I hear back from him.
If I can't get up with him and go with the local machinist, would you guys be interested in those?
I would be interested in either option :)
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Same Here...
CQBert
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Well I'm going to do some measurements this weekend and see if I can get some CAD drawings going. If I don't hear anything back from Robert next week I'll call my guys over here and get it started.
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If the "mic body" on the other end of the active cable is basically just an XLR adaptor (with no active circuitry, as is mentioned several times in this thread), why can't Senn just make an active cable that connects to the caps on one end, and then a standard XLR plug on the other?
as is the case with DPA mics? my guess is the DPA's are specifically engineered to be body-less microphones witht the cap using the cable you describe, whereas from the appearance of the Senns they were not engineered to be used without the bodies, thus the cable you refer to would not work
Actually they *would* work.
But the reason they are not done is as I described above.
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Well I'm going to do some measurements this weekend and see if I can get some CAD drawings going. If I don't hear anything back from Robert next week I'll call my guys over here and get it started.
If all this is about doing special Kwon bars for the MKH 8040 on a remote cable for ORTF - I'm interested. Count me in please.
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If the "mic body" on the other end of the active cable is basically just an XLR adaptor (with no active circuitry, as is mentioned several times in this thread), why can't Senn just make an active cable that connects to the caps on one end, and then a standard XLR plug on the other?
as is the case with DPA mics? my guess is the DPA's are specifically engineered to be body-less microphones witht the cap using the cable you describe, whereas from the appearance of the Senns they were not engineered to be used without the bodies, thus the cable you refer to would not work
Actually they *would* work.
But the reason they are not done is as I described above.
John is right, grider. The "body" that you refer to isn't really a body at all - it's just an XLR adapter. The "body" really is inside the capsule, just like the DPAs.
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well, interestingly, that raises the question then, since Sennheiser has chosen its own proprietary five pin male connectors for the end of the extension cable why don't they just make a little five pin to three pin connector instead? I realize that is exactly what the body does but it is at the same time too long to plug directly into a preamp or all in one box thus necessitating the use of XLR interconnects, how about instead just a little five pin to three pin cap instead that could replace the body altogether AND fit directly onto the end of the five pin extension cable
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well, interestingly, that raises the question then, since Sennheiser has chosen its own proprietary five pin male connectors for the end of the extension cable why don't they just make a little five pin to three pin connector instead? I realize that is exactly what the body does but it is at the same time too long to plug directly into a preamp or all in one box thus necessitating the use of XLR interconnects, how about instead just a little five pin to three pin cap instead that could replace the body altogether AND fit directly onto the end of the five pin extension cable
a 5-Pin>3-Pin adapter prolly wouldnt yield much of a size diff anyway, since the XLR adapter on them is already TINY. Actives really arent needed for these IMO. Has anyone ran the "Full Bodies" w/ a Vark Bar? I bet a Vark Bar+Shure A53M donut shockmount would hold up just fine w/ these :)
BUT, actives are mighty sweet!
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well, interestingly, that raises the question then, since Sennheiser has chosen its own proprietary five pin male connectors for the end of the extension cable why don't they just make a little five pin to three pin connector instead? I realize that is exactly what the body does but it is at the same time too long to plug directly into a preamp or all in one box thus necessitating the use of XLR interconnects, how about instead just a little five pin to three pin cap instead that could replace the body altogether AND fit directly onto the end of the five pin extension cable
This is a bit misleading as the connector is *not* a proprietary five pin connector.
The connector at the far end of the cabe is the same as the microphone - it's basically a pcb with rings so that the adaptor can screw on - it's not a plug at all.
As this is the cheapest end it would be quite easy to chop it off and solder on an XLR if you so desire.
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I guess the real question is, compared to the cable end + Senn "mic body", how much shorter would an XLR plug actually be? Maybe we could get a photo with the active cable end + mic body right next to a standard neutrik XLR? thanks.
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Well I'm going to do some measurements this weekend and see if I can get some CAD drawings going. If I don't hear anything back from Robert next week I'll call my guys over here and get it started.
+T for being so motivated and getting the ball rolling :) I wish you the best of luck :)
So you do have the actives already John? Word!
And I know fo another taper wanting to make his own mounts w/ Delrin. And his work has been 100% TOP NOTCH and beautiful craftmanship as well :)
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I guess the real question is, compared to the cable end + Senn "mic body", how much shorter would an XLR plug actually be? Maybe we could get a photo with the active cable end + mic body right next to a standard neutrik XLR? thanks.
in theory it would be half the size (lets assume the body is the same size as a xlr connector)
because as it is now (good idea for the flexablility though) you have the body and need interconnects
if you didn't need interconnects you would have half the amount of space being used (actually more because like 1/3 with interconnects you have 2 ends)
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Well I'm going to do some measurements this weekend and see if I can get some CAD drawings going. If I don't hear anything back from Robert next week I'll call my guys over here and get it started.
+T for being so motivated and getting the ball rolling :) I wish you the best of luck :)
So you do have the actives already John? Word!
And I know fo another taper wanting to make his own mounts w/ Delrin. And his work has been 100% TOP NOTCH and beautiful craftmanship as well :)
You talking about NOLAFishwater? He has PMed me. He's just trying to replicate the current bars, which should be fairly easy. I can probably do that as well, but I'm going to concentrate on getting them for the Senns first.
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Forgot to mention - I ran these for the first time at an outdoor show last night. It was Matt Nathanson at the oceanfront. Wind was blowing constantly all night but I don't think much (if any) showed up on the tape. Gonna try and discreetly track it out at work. ;)
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I guess the real question is, compared to the cable end + Senn "mic body", how much shorter would an XLR plug actually be? Maybe we could get a photo with the active cable end + mic body right next to a standard neutrik XLR? thanks.
in theory it would be half the size (lets assume the body is the same size as a xlr connector)
because as it is now (good idea for the flexablility though) you have the body and need interconnects
if you didn't need interconnects you would have half the amount of space being used (actually more because like 1/3 with interconnects you have 2 ends)
I'd guess that body is twice as long as a typical XLR connector, which is why something smaller would be preferable, it just does not appear you can safely insert the Senn body directly into a V3 for example, sure it can be done but its far from practical
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I guess the real question is, compared to the cable end + Senn "mic body", how much shorter would an XLR plug actually be? Maybe we could get a photo with the active cable end + mic body right next to a standard neutrik XLR? thanks.
in theory it would be half the size (lets assume the body is the same size as a xlr connector)
because as it is now (good idea for the flexablility though) you have the body and need interconnects
if you didn't need interconnects you would have half the amount of space being used (actually more because like 1/3 with interconnects you have 2 ends)
I'd guess that body is twice as long as a typical XLR connector, which is why something smaller would be preferable, it just does not appear you can safely insert the Senn body directly into a V3 for example, sure it can be done but its far from practical
No way is it twice as long. These things are TINY. I haven't yet tried to plug the "body" into my 702, but it should work with no issues.
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I hope that is the case, for sure, this mic depending on sound and affordability may be the last mic I ever buy and own, its so simple and small it will be hard to beat in a newly engineered transparent sounding microphone
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Well I took some pics of the XLR end vs. a neutrik connector. Here ya go.
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thanks for the pics John, I'm going to just shut up now and instead figure out how to buy these mics and the extension cables :)
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thanks for the pics. While the mic body + active cable end are certainly very comparable to a standard XLR, it sure would be nice to have a custom, hacked, shorty XLR connector on the end of those cable :) But in all seriousness, I probably wouldn't hack into cables like that. It certainly is very small as is.
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thanks for the pics. While the mic body + active cable end are certainly very comparable to a standard XLR, it sure would be nice to have a custom, hacked, shorty XLR connector on the end of those cable :) But in all seriousness, I probably wouldn't hack into cables like that. It certainly is very small as is.
I'd consider hacking some smaller cables for stealthing purposes (like the standard 1m cable), but for the custom job and the hassle I had to go through I'm leaving them as is.
And grider - if you're looking for someone to buy these through let me know, as I just bought mine and got a great deal. Just don't expect to get custom length remote cables out of Germany in a speedy fashion. ;)
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Loving this tape right now:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,106187.0.html
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Well - I got my MKH 8040 Stereoset today with a pair each of the Rycote INV-2 and INV-3 shockmounts (so I can use them with or without remote cables).
The Nagra VI should arrive in the next couple of days.
Then it's off to the Whitley Bay International Jazz Festival (http://www.whitleybayjazzfest.org/) for the weekend with the hope of some very nice recordings. ;D
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Well - I got my MKH 8040 Stereoset today with a pair each of the Rycote INV-2 and INV-3 shockmounts (so I can use them with or without remote cables).
The Nagra VI should arrive in the next couple of days.
Then it's off to the Whitley Bay International Jazz Festival (http://www.whitleybayjazzfest.org/) for the weekend with the hope of some very nice recordings. ;D
How much did the shocks run you? I'm still trying to decide if making my own kwon bar is worth the effort.
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Well - I got my MKH 8040 Stereoset today with a pair each of the Rycote INV-2 and INV-3 shockmounts (so I can use them with or without remote cables).
The Nagra VI should arrive in the next couple of days.
Then it's off to the Whitley Bay International Jazz Festival (http://www.whitleybayjazzfest.org/) for the weekend with the hope of some very nice recordings. ;D
How much did the shocks run you?
£30 each (I'm in the UK).
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Mayer last night
http://www.archive.org/details/jm2008-07-18.mkh8040.flac16
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24 bit
http://www.archive.org/details/jm2008-07-18.mkh8040.flac24
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Maroon 5 from Friday. Counting Crows will be seeded tonight most likely.
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,107855.0.html
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Quality Issue ! !
Has anyone else had problems with the Shock Mount? I have had two of the center plastic pieces split in two. In each case there has been a void in the mold where the pieces was not solid. The latest one actually still has a 'pellet' that did not melt in it..
Sennheiser has been good about replacing the part but I cannot have these failures every time I go out to tape.
Any similar incidents?
Thanks -
CQBert
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Quality Issue ! !
Has anyone else had problems with the Shock Mount? I have had two of the center plastic pieces split in two. In each case there has been a void in the mold where the pieces was not solid. The latest one actually still has a 'pellet' that did not melt in it..
Sennheiser has been good about replacing the part but I cannot have these failures every time I go out to tape.
I gather there was an issue with the first batch that Sennheiser are replacing without question - should be OK now.
Though, personally, I am using the Rycote INV-2 and INV-3 with mine.
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I ordered the entire thing as a package...
Mics ar GREAT ! ! !
Shocks, not so much yet...
I will keep the group posted.
CQBert
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Finally put up that Counting Crows tape:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,108115.0.html
I'll upload the 24 bit after that one gets some seeders and if anyone actually wants it.
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Good News from Sennheiser...
They are standing behind the product 100%...
I have sent them the broken mount and they want to analyze why it failed. In the meantime they are sending me a new set of Rycote INV-2's at no charge.
They said that when they have the issue resolved that they would replace my broken mount as well.
Very happy with my dealings with them on this issue.
CQBert
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DMB from two nights ago:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,109428.0.html
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currently
I have been fortunate enough
to have the use of
CQBert his MKH 8040ST's including the sweet rycote shocks
these mics are great!
had some very nice success recording with them
when I get home and track tings
I'll post share info
in the mean time a big +T to CQBert
thanx
-- Ian
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my
iBook Hard Drive currently has bad sectors (or blocks) and has died! :(
I'm on my sweeties MacBook 200 miles from home right now
I need to get myself up n running again
so I am out for now
thanx to CQbert for the mic loan
hopefully I can up some of the recordings soon
peace
-- Ian
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my first time out with the mics: http://www.mediafire.com/?jmyzjw2ymtz
>:D in hat row 11 4' ROC
8040st > R-44
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i am picking up the pair in the yardsale.
how would these sound with the oade w mods? too warm?
i will be, as time permits, upgrading my recording device to either an r4 pro, 702t or an r44.
any comments are appreciated.
thanks
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I run mine into a 702 and I believe others here do as well.
I like the detail and the low end just fine... the pre's in the 702 are solid and I have resisted an outboard Pre so far.
In any case - if you want a separate Pre then consider a much cheaper bit bucket since you would not be using the hardware for what it is really good for - all in one..
The mic's are more like DPA than Schoeps IMO since I owned 4021's just before these.
your call - if you own the Oade Pre currently then run it and see if you like it... when you upgrade recorder consider weather or not you want all in one or multiple pieces to lug around and power.
My entire rig including clamps fits in my AR-7 bag and can travel at will on a moments notice. (stand requires a second hand)
CQBert
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just got a pair of the 8040's. cant wait to run them.
got a few q's for yall...
what sort of case do you use for transport? the senn case is way to big. im thinking pelican *(1010) but it seems to be a pretty tight fit if i keep the clips on...*
ordered a vark bar and am now trying to decide btwn an a20s and an a53m.
what beefy windscreens fit these? the big ass shures?
thanks all.
*edit
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glad they arrived safe and sound :)
I stored the mics attached to the remote cables in a tupperware container
the dpa windscreens worked great for me
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I use a pelican 1020 and it fits in my AR-7 front pouch fine... it has room to expand with more caps as well..
CQBert
just got a pair of the 8040's. cant wait to run them.
got a few q's for yall...
what sort of case do you use for transport? the senn case is way to big. im thinking pelican *(1010) but it seems to be a pretty tight fit if i keep the clips on...*
ordered a vark bar and am now trying to decide btwn an a20s and an a53m.
what beefy windscreens fit these? the big ass shures?
thanks all.
*edit
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Hi all -
Anyone know if Senn has any plans to introduce a Figure 8 cap for the 8000-series? I'm mighty tempted by these mics, but to justify spending even MORE $$$ on recording gear, I'd have to be adding the ability to record M/S.....
Mike
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Well informed source says figure is planned (John Willet). He is generally right. No dates published yet.
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Hi all -
Anyone know if Senn has any plans to introduce a Figure 8 cap for the 8000-series? I'm mighty tempted by these mics, but to justify spending even MORE $$$ on recording gear, I'd have to be adding the ability to record M/S.....
Mike
just beware these additional caps are might expensive, in the 1500 range for just caps as I recall, these Sennheisers are not for the frugal or faint of heart
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Fig 8 will happen.... not for a while according to my sources - a year??
If you want a real cost go to a BSW or something like it and ask for a quote - street price v. list are usually quite different.
Make sure you are asking for the Cap only - not the single mic with the xlr portion.
CQBert
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just beware these additional caps are might expensive, in the 1500 range for just caps as I recall, these Sennheisers are not for the frugal or faint of heart
Just to point out that the "capsule" is the complete microphone - the XLR portion is just an XLR with no electronics in it at all.
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Well informed source says figure is planned (John Willet). He is generally right. No dates published yet.
Oh no! My wallet just twitched...<grin>
Mike
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these fit into a pelican 1010 nicely. what tiny mics. the 1010 make my 1060 look like a giant.
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Hi all, looking for some shared experience...
I got my Senn's on Wed. (8040 STs), and went out last night to a local bar to tape a friend's band (Emergency Service, they were surprisingly good). Was recording straight into my MR-1000 (Busman mod). The "sound guy" (I think he was a bouncer who knew how to find the on switch on the board...) had the sound waaaayy to high and bassy. The space was pretty small, underground, and very boomy. In the small space, it was borderline painful making me wish I'd brought my earplugs, one of the loudest situations I've been in recently. So there's the setup.
During the show, I checked the sound and even though the meters were safely between -12 and -6, I heard the tell-tale crackling of something being overloaded. When I got home and looked at the waveform in Reaper, sure enough "something" had clipped. Since the 8040's are rated 142 db SPL, and there wasn't blood coming out of our ears at the show, I'm guessing it wasn't the mics <grin>
My initial guess is I overloaded the preamp in the MR1000. Does anyone have any idea how hot the signal is coming out of the 8040's? Anyone else have problems with the preamp stage? My other guess is since the "sound guy" had the bass cranked up waay to far (our drinks were literally vibrating across the table!) all that high energy low bass acoustic energy was being efficiently converted by the mics into electrical energy that was blasting away at my preamp.
My next step is to either a) run them through some barrel attenuators, either -20db or -10db, or b) run them through my Shure FP24 / MixPre, but wanted to sound out my thoughts with those with experience. I saw someone had a signature that they were running the 8040's into an MR1000,but couldn't find them to compare notes. I know many run them through V3's and 7XX's, which can tolerate some very hot signals, so I'm hoping to find out how much gain you're using to get a sense of how hot these mics run.
All ideas greatly appreciated!
Mike
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I have never had my mics overload the pre's on my 702....
Sounds like you just got blown away in a small room...
FWIW - the FOH for STS9 runs these mics for his AUD feed when he records...
CQBert
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Hi CQBert -
Yeah, and I'm pretty sure they won't blow through the pre's on my Shure / Mixpre either - but like all of what Sound Devices makes, they're bulletproof.
Compared to other mics, do you find yourself using relatively more, or relatively less gain when you use the Senns? That'll give me some sense of how hot the signal is coming out.
Mike
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I ran DPA 4021's before these...nearly identical gain..
Before that Neumann u89 and the big boys wanted more gain than the little guys.
Hope that helps...
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Hi CQBert -
Yeah, and I'm pretty sure they won't blow through the pre's on my Shure / Mixpre either - but like all of what Sound Devices makes, they're bulletproof.
Compared to other mics, do you find yourself using relatively more, or relatively less gain when you use the Senns? That'll give me some sense of how hot the signal is coming out.
Mike
Ugh. Just got back from taping another friend's set this past Saturday. This time in a room where I had taped him several times previously, using my AKG481's straight into my MR1000 with no problems what so ever.
I used the Shure / MixPre and selected 80 hz roll-off to try to get rid of some of the low end that was probably pushing the signal energy so far up. The pull came out OK, but there were still current issues - the peak / clip lights kept coming on, indicating signals within 3db of clipping the input stage of the Shure / MixPre. And it did indeed manage to clip a couple times.
So what's going on here? Am I missing something with these mics? Are they just too hot for pro-sumer gear? Or are they just not usable in high-SPL environments? Or do I have a bum set?
Ugh and grrrr....
Mike
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I do not know.. I have never had an issue...
I usually record very close to a stage.. full bands w/drums and no issues..
can you attenuate the input on the mix-pre down 10db? The SD Site claims that the input is unclippable via a 2 stage opto isolator circuit or something.
I would break down the rig and test each step...
1 - mics into Korg... see where it clips
2 - mics into mix pre into Korg...
3 - borrow other equip and see what happens...
Ask other users about issues..
Keep us posted..
CQBert
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Second time out with the 8040s last night for Sarah Borges and the Broken Singles, and I'm really liking the sound. Here's a 24-bit sample recorded into an Oade Concert R-44, DIN-A about 12' from the stage and 7' up (added 7dB gain, otherwise unretouched).
http://kbergend.tripod.com/sb_8040_sample24.wav
These mics run a little hotter than my 480s, but didn't come anywhere near overloading the pres on the modded R-44 -- I had the gain sensitivity at 10 o'clock or so.
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Ok, update time -
So, I went out this weekend, and ran 483's > MixPre > Korg MR1 and also MKH 8040's > -10db barrel attenuators > Korg Mr1000.
Interestingly, the "clip" light on the MixPre was lighting up periodically with the 483's, but no distortion (CQB, you're right about the theoretically unclippable front stage of the MixPre).
The MKHs on the Korg seemed to be fine all the way through, no more clipping. So, looks like for my purposes i'll have to run them with the barrel attenuators if I'm using them to feed the MR1000. Kind of an "ugh" since one main goal was to shrink my whole rig down to the size of the Korg carrying case similar to what I do with my active 460's. Oh well, at least they're working, right?
I still haven't done a thorough listening, but first impressions are good, although VERY full on the low end. These mics could probably do with a bass roll off feature. Now if my cables from Senn would just arrive....
Mike
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The screw-in attenuator / bass roll-off module for the MKH 8000 series will be out very soon - it will screw in-between the mic. and XLR modules.
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No kidding? Cool!
I wonder if they were always planning on making one, or if they're responding to people's experiences with these mics. Any idea of when they might be available?
Thanks John!
Mike
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No kidding? Cool!
I wonder if they were always planning on making one, or if they're responding to people's experiences with these mics. Any idea of when they might be available?
Thanks John!
Mike
They were always planning to make one.
The current MKH 8000 series modules are just the start of a larger series.
The MZD 8000 AES42 digital module is imminent as well.
I don't know any definite dates yet but I think after Easter.
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OK, so I think I figured my problem out with brickwalling my Korg using my MKH 8040's.
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,119072.0.html
Basically, at 120 db, with an efficiency of 20 mv/Pa, the 8040's put out about -6 dBu, which can easily stomp the pre's on my MR1000 (max input -16 dBu). Now, since I can still hear, I'm guessing the actual sound was something south of 120 db, but even so, clipping's certainly possible.
Interestingly, the 20 mV/Pa is the same sensitivity given for my AKG 481's, and I've paired them with the Korg in the past without problem.
One question I have - those measurements are done at a reference frequency, such as 1khz, correct? That being said, if the MKH's are more sensitive to low frequencies, those low frequencies would result in higher energy levels all else being equal, correct/ So it could be the MKH's low end sensitivtiy that's driving the energy levels too high and clipping, correct?
The reason I ask is because I'd rather use a high pass filter (which I hear is on the way) rather than a -10 db pad, which is what I'm using now...
Thanks!
Mike
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Even a loud show in most places will never exceed 102 or 105 db's for more than a moment or two...
If you are outside the noise ordinances restrict it and most clubs had strict limits on db levels as well.
So, now you are back to 'stated' information from manufactures - weather is it Sennheiser, AKG, or Korg all are usually pretty close however if one was going to be wrong my money would be on the Korg. Both Senn and AKG are microphone manufacturers, the Korg units are new and when you look at even the basic spec it tells you that it cannot handle the output of a 'hot' high end mic at certain levels. It is reasonable to expect that that input does not necessarily move on an accurate sliding scale and that even moderate levels could cause the issue you are experiencing. Have you consulted a Korg owners forum to see if other have had similar issues with 'hot' mics?
The frequency issue is also somewhat valid here I believe... If you look at the frequency response curves of the AKG and Senn I think you will see more substantial bottom end coming from the 8040's. If they are challenging the Korgs' actual frequency response levels as well as from a high input level you may have a recipe for disaster.
It sounds to me that a pre-amp in front of the Korg is in order...
Silly thought... have you considered moving to something like a 702 and dumping the Korg/MP-2 and settling in on a one box solution or is the DSD recording important to you?
I love the sound of my 8040's and like the fact that the low end is there and full... you can always reduce in post but it is nearly impossible to increase. It is not only the bass notes that they seem to capture so well, but the humm of the amps, distortion that is down there and for me I like that ...
Keep us posted - this is an interesting evolution...
CQBert
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Hi CQB -
Yup, an SD 722 (or better, a 744) would be nice. I have an SD MixPre (Shure rebranded) and I love the build quality and preamps. Just awesome. What finally brought me to the MR1000?
- DSD
- ~$900 for the Korg with Busman mods on preamp vs. ~$1,500 to $2,000 to go SD
- AA batteries on the Korg = easy replacement
- Korg is slightly smaller / lighter (my entire rig, including clamp and mic clips fits into one of these: Size large
http://www.mountainsmith.com/products.asp?productId=137&categoryId=13&subCategoryId=12&subCategory2Id=0)
But believe me it was a painful decision. FWIW, when I run a pre-, I run my MixPre and it sounds great. I recently did a 4ch plus SBD where I did the 8040's > MR1000 and my 483's > MixPre > MR1, and both came out good with the Senns a lot meatier on the low end.
And several other posters here mention the need to use an attenuator with the MR1000 - their pre's unfortunately leave something to be desired for headroom.....
The journey continues!
Mike
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Good enough....
Sounds like it has been solved... Korg Pre's just not up to the task for this particular mic...
Onward - sounds like a nice rig though...
I am 100% with you on the $'s - I am trying to jump forward and just cannot afford what I want/need.
Cheers !
CQBert
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Finally got to spend some time in the field with my new rig (Senn 8040 > remote cables > Oade Concert PMD661), in fact it got quite a workout this past weekend! A little bigger than my old stealth rig (AT943 > BB > Oade PMD620), but still very compact and it sure does sound pretty!
(http://kbergend.tripod.com/2rigs.jpg)
I can confirm that the combo will run for at least 8 hours on a fresh set of Energizer lithium AAs, and generally I'm very happy with the results in a variety of recording situations. I used a PNY 16Gb SDHC card for all these shows and didn't have any problems, although I was only recording at 24/44.1. A couple of people have expressed interest in hearing samples, so here are a few 24-bit FLACs. These were all recorded with the attenuation setting at -12dB, no editing other than fades and adding some gain.
Over the Rhine at Canal Street Tavern, Dayton OH 03-27-2009 (ORTF mounted on column, 10' from stage 4' LoC 8' up)
http://tapers.org/kbergendorff/samples/otr2009-03-27sample1.flac
http://tapers.org/kbergendorff/samples/otr2009-03-27sample2.flac
(FTR the above tracks will be combined with the board's mixed outs for the final recording)
Cowboy Junkies with the Louisville Symphony Orchestra at Whitney Hall, Louisville KY 03-38-2009 (head mounted 8" apart, 1st row mezzanine about 60' from stage 8' LoC)
http://tapers.org/kbergendorff/samples/cj2009-03-28sample1.flac
http://tapers.org/kbergendorff/samples/cj2009-03-28sample2.flac
Béla Fleck and the African Project at Tarrytown Music Hall, Tarrytown NY 03-29-2009 (head mounted 8" apart, 8th row DFC)
http://tapers.org/kbergendorff/samples/bf2009-03-29sample1.flac
http://tapers.org/kbergendorff/samples/bf2009-03-29sample2.flac
I'm cross-posting these in the PMD661 thread.
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wow, tiny rig, and I thought Over the Rhine broke up a couple of years ago, I watched a big final concert of theirs, tears and all, over on Austin City Limits or some similar music series
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would anyone be interested in getting down on a series of NOLA bars for the senns? i think he said he would accomodate a minimum order of 5 bars. i would be interested in a DIN bar and maybe others.
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I would.. Probably DIN and ORTF
CQbert
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two for din. i may do ortf. pretty sure we need 5 for each type of bar.
hope they come out with figure-8's soon. saving dough.
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no more interest in the DIN bar?
we need three more takers to make an order.
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I just bought one of Robb's (Darktrain) 23cm Delrin bars with a riser for $25. It's very light and will do XY, ORTF, DIN and NOS (I use a big marked-up plastic triangle to align the mics).
(http://kbergend.tripod.com/SennXY.jpg)
(http://kbergend.tripod.com/SennORTF.jpg)
(http://kbergend.tripod.com/SennDIN.jpg)
(http://kbergend.tripod.com/SennNOS.jpg)
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I just bought one of Robb's (Darktrain) 23cm Delrin bars with a riser for $25. It's very light and will do XY, ORTF, DIN and NOS (I use a big marked-up plastic triangle to align the mics).
Very nice.
At the other end of the scale, I went for the new Grace SpaceBar (http://www.gracedesign.com/products/spacebar/spacebar.html)
(http://www.gracedesign.com/products/spacebar/images/sb30_1.jpg)
There is also a longer version so you can have an ORTF pair + omni out-riders:
(http://www.gracedesign.com/products/spacebar/images/sb66_front_1.jpg)
I got the set with both length bars and 4 mic. mounts - the bars also come with a riser mount as standard to raise one mic. above the other.
(http://www.gracedesign.com/products/spacebar/images/riser_tall1.jpg)
But what I really like about these bars (other than the superb engineering) is that they are properly and accurately marked for distance and angle, including tilt angle, so it's very fast and easy to set up and very easily repeatable. ;D
And - they also do a 3/8" version for Europe (which is the version I have).
Not cheap, but excellent.
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Whoa, sweet! Yeah, that pretty piece of engineering is certainly the Rolls Royce of mic bars. Briefly considered buying one myself, but I decided to take my wife to Bermuda instead. ;) The negligible weight of the Delrin bar was a bigger plus than the price for me actually, these days I'm taking a train or plane to most of the shows I tape so small & light are where it's at for me right now. And my 99¢ length-and-angle-inscribed triangle is accurate, if less than elegant.
I'm curious how much that Grace bar weighs, John. I can't tell from the photos if it's made of aluminum or plastic or what?
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I'm curious how much that Grace bar weighs, John. I can't tell from the photos if it's made of aluminum or plastic or what?
The bar itself is aluminium and is pretty light - the centre and mounts are heavier, though.
I think Grace are working on longer arms, but will be of a different design so they won't bend - my understanding is that it's selling better than they thought.
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anybody think there will be a word on a figure-eight capsule for this series?
been considering picking up an mkh-30 or some such mic for m/s, but would rather hold out and get a pair of the 8000 series 8.
if anyone has a contact at senn, i would be happy to pursue.
thanks,
luke
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anybody think there will be a word on a figure-eight capsule for this series?
been considering picking up an mkh-30 or some such mic for m/s, but would rather hold out and get a pair of the 8000 series 8.
if anyone has a contact at senn, i would be happy to pursue.
thanks,
luke
they said it was under development last year. but I haven't heard anything since then.