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Gear / Technical Help => Ask The Tapers => Topic started by: manamana on May 06, 2008, 10:15:40 PM
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Current setup: 4022> sax > r-09
Most of what I tape these days is stealth, or semi-stealth, about 1 in 8 will have a bag check that requires gear to be worn through the gate.
Mostly I like this gear, for the size I don't know if I could do any better. What I don't like about it is that recordings often feel flat or dull. there's a slight odd emphasis on the vocal ranges, which makes any flaws in the singer's voice not just noticeable, as it sounded at the venue, but...harsh...
Years ago I had a V2 and apogee and occasionally used it with a borrowed pair of DPAs...I don't remember this problem with that setup. I think I may just not like the sax very much.
I think I'm going to sell my apple stock after the next gen iphone is announced. I'm thinking of using some of this money to fund some more gear. on my list of options:
1: Sell sax, buy V2 or V3. Just go through more hassle during times when gear must be worn in.
2: Keep sax, buy v2 or V3, use sax when called for.
if it's a V3, consider mod options + buying a sony D50. (other small bit boxes w/ digital in?)
3: buy skm-120 + active and play with MS. This is probably easier to stealth in a hat and would be more flexible than just having the cards.
2: buy 702
I also need to find some really good windscreens for the 4022s. DPA ones got overloaded on a gusty day last week.
Really what I want to do is 2+3. But that's alot of money.
opinions? maybe I'll just take up photography.
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722?
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722?
It is not quite a no-brainer, but close. Part of that is because I chose the 722 as my solution. But I did not pull the name out of a hat. I looked at a lot of recorders before I chose this brand. It is not the cheapest or the most expensive. You get a lot of bang for your buck. It does not fail, or if it does it does so at very rare intervals. It is easy to use. It is rugged. It is small. Of course, YMMV 8)
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i'm going to have to say, try the korg mr-1000
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Or get an Aerco Mp-2 ;)
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I use the same set up 4022>sax>r-09 I like the results. I feel the sax is quit transparent. I feel at higher db's on the sax i do get some harshness, but if i back off on the sax, and up the r-09 it appears to smooth things out. I 99% stealth.
do you think you can stealth with the 722? and do you like its pre?
I have no money as i am putting it into my next film but i can still dream
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what about using schoeps ccm41? is this an option? trying hypercards?
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honestly, if stealthing is most of what you do, you have a really solid rig for that purpose. I would suggest either a new (similar sized) set of mics like the shempz or neumann (with actives) or a different flavor pre (aerco or nbox if going shempz mics).
one or both of these are going to move you from the transparent sound that you are currently pulling. dpa is the heat if the conditions are right, but most PA recordings leave me a little sterile. i like flavor, it helps in PA situations.
my $0.00002
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dpa is the heat if the conditions are right, but most PA recordings leave me a little sterile. i like flavor, it helps in PA situations.
my $0.00002
yep. in the right conditions dpa's smoke! but they are not forgiving at all. I don't stealth but if I did mk41's > nbox ;D
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I think you have a great rig only thing I can say is you might ought to look into an aerco I think professor peabody runs this rig and it runs off 9v internals so it would work well with low pro situations and it will add some warmth as well not to mention its really small.
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I think you have a great rig only thing I can say is you might ought to look into an aerco I think professor peabody runs this rig and it runs off 9v internals so it would work well with low pro situations and it will add some warmth as well not to mention its really small.
And the Aerco adds a blanket of warmth w/ out losing or risking any loss of detail. Its hard to explain, but i think an Aerco is DEF what you need ;) And it would keep things SMALL since an Aerco is smaller(but heavier) than a sonosax ;)
I owned a Sonosax SX-M2 and ran it w/ my 481/3's for awhile. I too felt the same way. It was a beautiful combo MOST of the time, but the highend can be VERY harsh at times. I sold the Sax and NEVER looked back ;)
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I'm not really ready to give up on the DPAs just yet. I like a transparent, precise recording, and most of the time I can get in the sweet spot pretty easily... and again I don't remember thinking this when I borrowed DPAs to run with my old V2.
I guess I don't have much knowledge/ experience with the aerco. I recall a few tapes I heard and thinking that they sounded a little swampy. It might be too far in the other direction, but I guess I should check it out.
I think the next move is to borrow / temp trade for a few different preamps. Ideally I'd like to run a few shows each on a lunatec, an aerco, and a psp-2.
I think regardless I'm going to try to aquire an AK-20 active setup, and see how a 4022 + km120 MS rig sounds.
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do you have any recent pulls, i could check out -- thanks
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AFAIK a V3 has the same pre as a V2 with the additional A/D and you can use just the Analog section.
I might be willing to trade my V3 for your sax for a little while as a matter of curiosity.
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I'd go w/an all in one box. fudge 24 bit all together and get a Wmod 660 or fr2le.
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sell the sax to orechall on this board and get an all-in-one like nick suggests.
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and def something w/a "flavor". the DPAs, being so ruler flat in their response...respond well to coloration, IMO.
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AFAIK a V3 has the same pre as a V2 with the additional A/D and you can use just the Analog section.
I might be willing to trade my V3 for your sax for a little while as a matter of curiosity.
I think I'd be up for that. You have a PM.
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Current setup: 4022> sax > r-09
Most of what I tape these days is stealth, or semi-stealth, about 1 in 8 will have a bag check that requires gear to be worn through the gate.
4022>722/702? Very simple and compact. That's what I'd like to run if I had the change for a 722.
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Current setup: 4022> sax > r-09
Most of what I tape these days is stealth, or semi-stealth, about 1 in 8 will have a bag check that requires gear to be worn through the gate.
4022>722/702? Very simple and compact. That's what I'd like to run if I had the change for a 722.
I LOVE the sound of DPA 402x>7xx as well.
Sell that v3 and MT and youd be pretty close to a 702 ;)
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I think about a SD Unit occasionally. I'd probably be considering those a little more closely if it didn't look like those were about to get updated soon.
Somehow I have it in my head that a lunatec pre will solve my problems. I'm going to test that and see what happens.
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I think about a SD Unit occasionally. I'd probably be considering those a little more closely if it didn't look like those were about to get updated soon.
Somehow I have it in my head that a lunatec pre will solve my problems. I'm going to test that and see what happens.
7xx boxes updated? In what way? theyre perfect the way they are ;D
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I think about a SD Unit occasionally. I'd probably be considering those a little more closely if it didn't look like those were about to get updated soon.
Somehow I have it in my head that a lunatec pre will solve my problems. I'm going to test that and see what happens.
What's the upgrade? I didn't know any changes were in the works.
I don't think you can go wrong with going DPA>Grace pre, I am very happy sonically with 4022>V3 (digi out) but for hardcore stealth mode 4022>722 would be nice in terms of rig size and complexity.
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I'd go w/an all in one box. fudge 24 bit all together and get a Wmod 660 or fr2le.
The FR2LE is (capable of) 24/96kHz, isn't it? Anyway...
I don't record stealth (because I don't have to) but I do understand the considerations of the idiom. When I upgrade, for the sake of simplicity and portability, I'm going to a modified PMD660 (from a considerably more portable, but unforgivably error-prone, MZR700 MD recorder). The hard part, for me, is going to be deciding between Oade and Busman when I buy my machine. Most of the time, I record for documentary purposes (creating an archive of original local/regional music performances). I do very little in the way of post-recording processing (normalize-to-peak @ -0.2 dB, edit into tracks, <100 millisecond fades on the heads and tails). Since having those extra bits to knock around in post (with EQ, compression, etc.) is the only reasonable excuse for using 24 bit to record stuff that's just going to end up on CD, I don't see a reason (for me) to bother with the "extra" 8 bits (or spend the "extra" money for equipment and storage).
Anyway; my advice, FWIW, is to go with a "one box" preamp/recorder. Best of luck in your decision and recordings!
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yes, the fostex is 24bit and does 24/96.
the 660 was my directed intent w/that comment.
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Re: SD updates:
Pure guessing. But...
The 7xx units have been around quite a while, and they just introduced a new high end model. Usually tech companies introduce new tech on the high end to get the most $$ out of early adopters, and then update down the line.
also, AFAIK the 702 is pretty much a 722 w/o the HD. If the 702 has been selling well (on this I have no idea), I could see SD putting in the time to make it a smaller form factor and more of a unique product, as opposed to a stripped down version of another product.
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and def something w/a "flavor". the DPAs, being so ruler flat in their response...respond well to coloration, IMO.
Would coloration be better sought thru post production, or is it good to add coloration with the pre amp? I just dont know enough so i am kinda looking for some education on the matter. I thought that you would want the cleanest - most transparent line from mics to recorder so that you have the most flexibility in post?
please advise
p.s how does the SD722 pre differ in sound from sonosax sx-m2 when running DPA 4022?
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the sonosax has a warmer sound than the pre in the sound devices box