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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: coolrat33 on May 29, 2008, 04:45:59 AM
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Hi
I'm quite new to this,
I'm doing interviews- mainly voice interviews, and I'm trying to assemble a good set of cheap equipment.
a) Pansonic SJMR100 minidisk with line-in.
b) iAudio X5 with Rockbox and using line-in
c) Marantz 620 using line-in
d) soon to be adding an iRiver H140
I have a iRiver H140 on the way (i purchased it new 1 years ago, but it broke instantly and iRiver dragged their feet for a year before finally replacing it- long story, but essentially they are incompetent)
I suspect that the 1.8 harddrive will die in a year or so and I'll upgrade it to a CF card.
What is the hardware like in the recorder? Are its preamps any good?
What about line-in recording on this unit using Rockbox?
Will it match or come close to the recording quality of my Marantz PMD620?
So I guess what I'm wondering is, if I use my CA-11 cardiod mics and a Chuch preamp with the H140, how would it compare to:
a) Marantz PMD620 with built-in mics?
b) Marantz PMD620 using CA-11 cardiod mics and a Church preamp?
If its a good recorder, I'll think about buying another H140 or H120 unit.
Or should I just give up on this old stuff and go for another Marantz or an Olympus LS-10
Thanks a lot for any advice!
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i dont know about how it compares with the other rig, i have no idea. all i know is that i got into taping pretty recently and i got an iriver h320 (with rockbox obviously,) Church-Audio STC-11 Cardioid Mics and a BAT-2B and im very happy with the quality.
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Hm..... I thought there might be flurry of replies to this question!
Isnt' the H140 quite commonly used by tapers and various other recording experts? :D
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frankly, im surprised no one else has responded also. the iriver is a pretty popular choice for a recorder. but so is the edirol and a variety of mini discs
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We use them a lot for recording loud rock concerts. Never heard of anyone using one for a voice recorder. I don't think anyone is ignoring you, we just don't have much experience to offer.
An R-09 is probably another good choice if you can pick one up cheap, even with the built in mics.
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I tell you something that will work and will run you less than $40!
A rockboxed Sansa c200 series mp3 player. I have been recording voices for the past week....mainly when I cannot pronounce a new japanese word and I want an example to listen to later ad nauseum. I will record it with the c250 I have at 56kbps/mono mp3. Completely acceptable quality. Rockbox will allow you to change the gain manually on the fly! There is a bit of noise, but as far as a unit to slip into the pocket for a quick interview, it is pretty impressive! Built in mic, a dedicated rec button - it takes two pushes and you are recording....even if you are listening to music! Oh, yeah...the thing is micro...nothing will beat it for what it does at that size....though I have to say it is a bit cheap feeling. You can expand the memory with micro SD cards, including SDHC (with Rockbox).
I think woot and slickdeals had the c250 (2GB version) as low as $25 delivered via buy.com.
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i have a couple ihp-120's. i use them primarily in stealth situations and use an external preamp (SD mp-2). for me, they are perfect for what i need. would i like better a/d in the unit, sure - but when small form factor is a consideration, i am fine with the status quo.
if the r-09 (which i have as well) had a remote as awesome as the ihp-120 and inputs that i would feel better about using in stealth situations, i wouldn't be using my iriver.
btw, i wouldnt even consider using the internal (mono) mic in the iriver. i also wouldnt consider using the iriver mic/line in with a pre in front of it. if you can find the modAD-20 that powers the mics as well as providing a/d (and gain) i would look into that for a small footprint unit. I also wouldnt recommend swapping out the harddrive for a cf unless you were skilled, had a bunk hard drive, or planned on using the device in the most extreme circumstances.
i have no experience with the 620 or the church gear so i can't give you any insight there.
you asked - my 2cents - get a r-09 or r-1 and a AT822 for a nice compact interviewing recorder that will allow you to capture ambient and music.
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iriver h120/h140/320/340 are nice little recorders (with rockbox of course).
If you mod them with a CF card the internal mic becomes usable (no hdd noise)
Or use a small external mic (the line-in port has 3.7V mic-power)
A word of caution about the sansa: rockbox only supports v1 versions of it (so far), and its recording capabilities are not very good (low bitrate and DC offset) - we've had some users in our forum complain about it
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Works great for a 16 bit bucket.
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I'm rather perplexed by the statement above about not using an H1** with a pre in front of it. I, and many others around here, use it with a pre (in my case, a CA9100) with very good results. The beauty of the H1** is Rockbox and the Safety feature, which automatically lowers gain if you clip.
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I think he meant that if you go for an external amp, you might be better off going digital than going through line-in.
I can only assume that using a good quality ADC in front of the h1x0 spdif will yield a better noise floor than attaching a pre in front of the line-in
the above has never been tried/verified by me, it is pure theoretical speculation ;)
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Well I don't own the pre-amp 9100 yet but I should have it in the next two to four weeks.
Right now I love my h120 rockboxed version. Did you know you can set a pre-record buffer all the way up to 30 seconds?! the fostex fr-2le only has a two second record buffer. Quite honestly, I don't know about the others but I think thirty full seconds is pretty great. When I get my 9100, I think my mics will start to work a little better since I won't have to have the damn gain so high but other than that, no complaints and I've only had it for about five weeks now.
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the 9100 is very nice, good choice ;)
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Yes it is. I run my 9100 full bore with the 4.7k switch on, H120 set to 0. I have NEVER clipped on music, just once and a while with clapping. That yields a full sounding recording that need anywhere from a 5-10db increase in post which I am fine with. Easier to set it and forget it than worry about making all the settings for automatic volume adjustment. Yeah, I could learn it and it would be all good, but I prefer to start and finish the show at the same volume. Also, no gain on the H120. No idea if that saves from extra noise or not, but I don't know I could ever tell because I always tape rather loud rock concerts. The 9100 really can handle the bass with my AT853s. I have devolved into talking about the 9100.
Here is a clip from The Breeders in Chicago last week.
http://home.comcast.net/~simms3/happy.mp3
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Yes it is. I run my 9100 full bore with the 4.7k switch on, H120 set to 0. I have NEVER clipped on music, just once and a while with clapping. That yields a full sounding recording that need anywhere from a 5-10db increase in post which I am fine with. Easier to set it and forget it than worry about making all the settings for automatic volume adjustment. Yeah, I could learn it and it would be all good, but I prefer to start and finish the show at the same volume. Also, no gain on the H120. No idea if that saves from extra noise or not, but I don't know I could ever tell because I always tape rather loud rock concerts. The 9100 really can handle the bass with my AT853s. I have devolved into talking about the 9100.
Here is a clip from The Breeders in Chicago last week.
http://home.comcast.net/~simms3/happy.mp3
I am very glad to hear I made the right decision with the pre-amp. Next purchase I make will be the CA-14s or CA-11s. What do you recommend?
-sean
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I'm doing interviews- mainly voice interviews, and I'm trying to assemble a good set of cheap equipment.
a) Pansonic SJMR100 minidisk with line-in.
b) iAudio X5 with Rockbox and using line-in
c) Marantz 620 using line-in
d) soon to be adding an iRiver H140
Are its preamps any good?
What about line-in recording on this unit using Rockbox?
Will it match or come close to the recording quality of my Marantz PMD620?
So I guess what I'm wondering is, if I use my CA-11 cardiod mics and a Chuch preamp with the H140, how would it compare to:
a) Marantz PMD620 with built-in mics?
b) Marantz PMD620 using CA-11 cardiod mics and a Church preamp?
If its a good recorder, I'll think about buying another H140 or H120 unit.
Or should I just give up on this old stuff and go for another Marantz or an Olympus LS-10
OK, there's one or two things I don't get in your overview.
Are you doing voice interviews with the Church Cards??? Why? Or is your question about taping gigs?
Using optical in on the H1xx + external AD, your noisefloor will be better than the PMD620, which lacks digi-in.
Regarding built-in pre, I'd say that the Iriver is not sufficient if you run analog in. You can add +20dB or so in the analog range, but if you do voice interviews, that's not enough by far. I don't know if the 620 is any better in that aspect.
Comparing the Church Combo>H1xx vs PMD620 with internal mics, I'd say that the Church gear wins, in a concert situation.
For an interview, comparing mountable external mics with a handheld all-in-one, I get the impression that mic placement can make or break your recording, and is far more important than the recorder. So you should reflect on your experience on how you usually mount the mics and whether that gives you good sound or not...
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i dont know about how it compares with the other rig, i have no idea. all i know is that i got into taping pretty recently and i got an iriver h320 (with rockbox obviously,) Church-Audio STC-11 Cardioid Mics and a BAT-2B and im very happy with the quality.
Hey DisturbedPyro,
I know I asked you before, but how much gain do you need to add in the H320 while recording, to get decent levels?
The BAT-2B is 1.5V and 2-wire, right? My experience with similar bboxes is that the signal isn't really hot enough, and you'll have to move beyond the +24dB threshold to get the full peaks.
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I'm doing interviews- mainly voice interviews, and I'm trying to assemble a good set of cheap equipment.
a) Pansonic SJMR100 minidisk with line-in.
b) iAudio X5 with Rockbox and using line-in
c) Marantz 620 using line-in
d) soon to be adding an iRiver H140
Are its preamps any good?
What about line-in recording on this unit using Rockbox?
Will it match or come close to the recording quality of my Marantz PMD620?
So I guess what I'm wondering is, if I use my CA-11 cardiod mics and a Chuch preamp with the H140, how would it compare to:
a) Marantz PMD620 with built-in mics?
b) Marantz PMD620 using CA-11 cardiod mics and a Church preamp?
If its a good recorder, I'll think about buying another H140 or H120 unit.
Or should I just give up on this old stuff and go for another Marantz or an Olympus LS-10
OK, there's one or two things I don't get in your overview.
Are you doing voice interviews with the Church Cards??? Why? Or is your question about taping gigs?
Using optical in on the H1xx + external AD, your noisefloor will be better than the PMD620, which lacks digi-in.
Regarding built-in pre, I'd say that the Iriver is not sufficient if you run analog in. You can add +20dB or so in the analog range, but if you do voice interviews, that's not enough by far. I don't know if the 620 is any better in that aspect.
Comparing the Church Combo>H1xx vs PMD620 with internal mics, I'd say that the Church gear wins, in a concert situation.
For an interview, comparing mountable external mics with a handheld all-in-one, I get the impression that mic placement can make or break your recording, and is far more important than the recorder. So you should reflect on your experience on how you usually mount the mics and whether that gives you good sound or not...
Thanks very much for your advice!
I'm using the Church CA-11 cards for both musical recordings (traditional folk instrument bands in China) and for speech recordings during interviews.
I must use cardiods for voice interviews because surrounding noise is very high- using omnis records too much background noise.
Now I'm thinking I might just use the iRiver H140, Marantz 620, and an Olympus LS-10 using CA-11 mics through the mic-in ports and NOT use a preamp.
This will simplify my setup -- I can avoid using pre-amps and avoid the possibility of wires coming disconnected.
BUT, you mentioned that the H140 preamp does not provide enough gain. So will I be better off using a Church preamp?
I have a STC9000 now that provides an extra 30db gain. Should I get another for my other gear? Or should I get the STC9100 which can only provide an extra 20db gain? (what makes the 9100 better than the 9000?
Thanks for your opinions!
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OK, there's one or two things I don't get in your overview.
Are you doing voice interviews with the Church Cards??? Why? Or is your question about taping gigs?
Using optical in on the H1xx + external AD, your noisefloor will be better than the PMD620, which lacks digi-in.
Regarding built-in pre, I'd say that the Iriver is not sufficient if you run analog in. You can add +20dB or so in the analog range, but if you do voice interviews, that's not enough by far. I don't know if the 620 is any better in that aspect.
Comparing the Church Combo>H1xx vs PMD620 with internal mics, I'd say that the Church gear wins, in a concert situation.
For an interview, comparing mountable external mics with a handheld all-in-one, I get the impression that mic placement can make or break your recording, and is far more important than the recorder. So you should reflect on your experience on how you usually mount the mics and whether that gives you good sound or not...
I'm using the Church CA-11 cards for both musical recordings (traditional folk instrument bands in China) and for speech recordings during interviews.
I must use cardiods for voice interviews because surrounding noise is very high- using omnis records too much background noise.
Now I'm thinking I might just use the iRiver H140, Marantz 620, and an Olympus LS-10 using CA-11 mics through the mic-in ports and NOT use a preamp.
This will simplify my setup -- I can avoid using pre-amps and avoid the possibility of wires coming disconnected.
BUT, you mentioned that the H140 preamp does not provide enough gain. So will I be better off using a Church preamp?
I have a STC9000 now that provides an extra 30db gain. Should I get another for my other gear? Or should I get the STC9100 which can only provide an extra 20db gain? (what makes the 9100 better than the 9000?
Regarding the Church pre, I think The Man himself is best suited to clarify the difference. Paging Chris... But make a search in the Retail section, IIRC he did outline the different spec in a posting there.
So your current gear looks perfectly good to me!
For music, I would run CA11>STC9000>PMD620 (or H140, the results should be similar)
If the music is loud and you want a lighter rig, try leaving out the pre and run CA11>PMD620, and check if the gain is sufficient.
For voice, I'd run the same rig, but I'd think twice about the mics.
If I had money to burn, I'd invest them in a proper "interview mic" instead, that can be stand-mounted or handheld, maybe even with a shotgun cap. That way you can direct it towards the interviewee and eliminate even more noise. Since it's not a stealth situation, why restrict yourself to miniature mics?!
As the saying goes: put your money in front, ie the mics!
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I thought the 9000 has a fixed +30db gain, although you can switch it on/off. The 9100 has up to 20dB variable gain. afaik/iirc/... ;)