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Gear / Technical Help => Ask The Tapers => Topic started by: MLKLuke on July 13, 2008, 06:14:39 PM
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HI guys,
in 90% of the shows I taped I decided to do "stack-taping" because here in italy the mixer/soundboard zone is usually full of crying/clapping/chatting persons and it's not a quiet place to tape from
I use AT853 with cardioid or hypercardioid caps...and my question is:
which is the best configuration (din-dina-ortf....) for my mics for stack-taping? what's your experience with that?
thanks in advance for your help :)
bye
Luke
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for stack taping, I'd just use A-B.
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for stack taping, I'd just use A-B.
I did my first stack tape last night and used A-B. CA-11 cards. I think it came out pretty nicely.
http://www.archive.org/details/jmayer2008-07-12.ca11.flac16
Since I was running for a stack tape, I didn't worry about getting a good stereo image, but rather with capturing the sound. Seemed to work okay.
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i've run a-b, xy, and din for stack.
of all the three, i prefer a-b, even though some people say to only run a-b w/ omnis.
is it just me or does xy and din lessen the depth (bass) of your tape on the stack?
-j
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I'd also run A-B for stack taping, it's not like there's much of a stereo image in the music to preserve, so it's more important to keep the signal on axis.
That said, if you run cards A-B with your head in between them, there's still a baffle attenuating sounds from the opposite side. So AB stealthed cardioids can still have a decent image....but of the room and crowd rather than the music if you're right up against a stack.
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I did my first stack tape last night and used A-B. CA-11 cards. I think it came out pretty nicely.
http://www.archive.org/details/jmayer2008-07-12.ca11.flac16
Sounds pretty good, where were you located in relation to the stacks?
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I did my first stack tape last night and used A-B. CA-11 cards. I think it came out pretty nicely.
http://www.archive.org/details/jmayer2008-07-12.ca11.flac16
Sounds pretty good, where were you located in relation to the stacks?
about 30-40 ft back, almost directly in front of the right stack in a big shed venue. Started at 8.5 ft but then security came about 30 min. in and told me to lower it to shoulder height.
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thanks for the answers. so you would just put the mics in A-B configuration and point your head straight to the stacks or with some kind of angle?
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I use DIN (think thats right) and works fine for me and I tend to stand about 1 metre from the stack!! ;D
I stealth 90% of the time though.
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I use DIN (think thats right) and works fine for me and I tend to stand about 1 metre from the stack!! ;D
I stealth 90% of the time though.
I've never been so close...I usually am between 10metres and 20metres from the stacks
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here in italy the mixer/soundboard zone is usually full of crying...
LOL....crying? What kind of shows are you attending? ;)
I just tried stack taping a few weeks ago as an experiment out of necessity (I had no other place to set up) and I was very happy with the results. I only tape in small bars with small P.A. systems, so high volume hasn't been an issue with me. I typically set my preamp to +10 and my R-09 to 20-22 and still have to boost the volume afterwards (I don't HAVE to, but I like to). I tried stack taping three weeks in a row at the same bar, with mixed results. When the crowd was small the recording sounded good, but for the crowded show I had people walking in front of my mics all night long so there's a lot of phasing on that recording. Here are a couple of my good recordings from stack taping in a small bar:
http://www.archive.org/details/kaseyrausch2008-07-06
http://www.archive.org/details/redlefty2008-07-06
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f97/JeremyLykins/100_2504.jpg)
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for stack taping, I'd just use A-B.
I did my first stack tape last night and used A-B. CA-11 cards. I think it came out pretty nicely.
http://www.archive.org/details/jmayer2008-07-12.ca11.flac16
Since I was running for a stack tape, I didn't worry about getting a good stereo image, but rather with capturing the sound. Seemed to work okay.
Sounds pretty nice to my ears.
Most of the times, PA systems provides mono sound, so don't worry about stereo image. Point your mics to the stacks and be happy. ;)
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A-B
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about 30-40 ft back, almost directly in front of the right stack in a big shed venue. Started at 8.5 ft but then security came about 30 min. in and told me to lower it to shoulder height.
Cool, thanks. I don't really listen to JM, but it's a nice recording. 8)
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is it just me or does xy and din lessen the depth (bass) of your tape on the stack?
Correct as far as XY is concerned. I don't have the technical details to explain why, but that is the nature of XY. It provides some natural rolloff of lower frequencies, which can be advantageous depending on what kind of music you're recording.
I'd love to read a technical explanation of this if anyone has a link...
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another AB stack tape....
http://www.archive.org/details/rmb2008-05-01
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i've run a-b, xy, and din for stack.
of all the three, i prefer a-b, even though some people say to only run a-b w/ omnis.
is it just me or does xy and din lessen the depth (bass) of your tape on the stack?
-j
yes xy will lessen the bass
i used to do a mod xy for just that reason with my sp 853s
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ScottT, when people say "X/Y" with no further details, they generally mean a coincident pair of cardioids. Coincident stereo recordings made with cardioids tend to have high positive correlation between the channels, since for one thing a cardioid is quite a broad pattern, and especially since there is this nutso idea out there that 90 degrees is some kind of ideal angle to set between the axes of a pair of X/Y cardioids (try 120 instead and be amazed).
A high positive correlation between channels is a Good Thing for mono compatibility, but it detracts from any sense of spaciousness in the recording. I generally don't recommend using cardioids in a coincident setup unless mono compatibility is an absolute requirement; I generally prefer ORTF for cardioids, and I only use coincident placement for M/S or for patterns such as supercardioid or figure-8, which are narrow enough to create clear differentiation between the stereo channels.
Placing two cardioids together doesn't decrease their low-frequency sensitivity as such, but it does lump much of the good stuff in a stereo recording (both direct and reflected sound energy) dead into the center of the stereo image, giving a "flat," basically mono feel to the recording.
--best regards
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ScottT, when people say "X/Y" with no further details, they generally mean a coincident pair of cardioids. Coincident stereo recordings made with cardioids tend to have high positive correlation between the channels, since for one thing a cardioid is quite a broad pattern, and especially since there is this nutso idea out there that 90 degrees is some kind of ideal angle to set between the axes of a pair of X/Y cardioids (try 120 instead and be amazed).
A high positive correlation between channels is a Good Thing for mono compatibility, but it detracts from any sense of spaciousness in the recording. I generally don't recommend using cardioids in a coincident setup unless mono compatibility is an absolute requirement; I generally prefer ORTF for cardioids, and I only use coincident placement for M/S or for patterns such as supercardioid or figure-8, which are narrow enough to create clear differentiation between the stereo channels.
Placing two cardioids together doesn't decrease their low-frequency sensitivity as such, but it does lump much of the good stuff in a stereo recording (both direct and reflected sound energy) dead into the center of the stereo image, giving a "flat," basically mono feel to the recording.
--best regards
I really love it when smart people talks :clapping:
Thanks DSatz.
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Just ran x-y (around 120) with MK-41's for this show 15ft from stack
with outstanding results. Small club show with lots of chatter and people
moving about. The supercards did a nice job of attenuating the chatter
while still capturing the sound really nice.
http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=205215