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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: jerryfreak on July 16, 2008, 07:29:40 PM
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lets say like fob at a larger show (sci/phish) with a vdosc setup
115 dB?
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louder
my wifes dance school has the stereo at 80-90db
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It's also frequency-dependent. I had to learn that the hard way. Music normally follows a pink noise curve, to some extent. But live shows like to push the subs loud, so the level of the bass could be much higher.
If you have an SPL meter, and you are worried about clipping your mics, set it on C-weighted. If you are worried about going deaf, set it on A-weighted (which mostly ignores bass, as do your ears).
Thanks for the tips.
In clubs I've measured 90dBA (very quiet show), 100dBA (typical rock show), 110dBA (too loud rock show). These were all in small clubs. Not sure what the big venues do. Oh yeah, I wear -15 or -25 Ety plugs. Some soundguys have told me that clubs are sometimes limited to 105dBA. At least that is what the *ask* the soundguys to do. But most of the soundguys don't use meters. They are probably all half deaf :(.
Richard
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115 db is 3 times louder than 85 dB, btw.
louder
my wifes dance school has the stereo at 80-90db
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typical tour rider requires 120db at 100' a weighted. at mix position that's more like 112-115db.
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perfect.
if i understand, the vdosc array is rather uniform in sound, so 120 dB FOB then?
typical tour rider requires 120db at 100' a weighted. at mix position that's more like 112-115db.
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perfect.
if i understand, the vdosc array is rather uniform in sound, so 120 dB FOB then?
typical tour rider requires 120db at 100' a weighted. at mix position that's more like 112-115db.
i guess it depends on who's playing :P
120db is pretty loud. most engineers who want to continue to be engineers mix closer to 110db in arenas.
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115 db is 3 times louder than 85 dB, btw.
Nope. A 30 dB difference is a 10^3 = 1000-fold difference in intensity.
Proof:
dB = 10 log(P1/P0)
115-85 = 10 log(P1/P0)
30 = 10 log(P1/P0)
3 = log(P1/P0)
10^3 = P1/P0
1000 = P1/P0
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WAY, WAY TOO FUGGIN' LOUD!!
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I always understood 120db to be the point where hearing damage occurs, and therefore 110db is usually the max many large corporate type venues will allow. Often, it's even less since venues like sheds are finding residential development encroaching nearby, and zoning amendments are made to limit db output.
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"I always understood 120db to be the point where hearing damage occurs"
Please everybody... learn and live hearing protection. I'm 51 and have "severe" hearing loss.. ok ok Vietnam, loud rock shows, loud car audio, bad genetics but no matter how you get there.. hearing loss sucks.
In the 2 hours of a concert.. some hearing damage occurs at anything more than 91... I have foamies.. 25db custom molded "musician" earplugs... As well as the industrial strength aids I wear the rest of my life. If your ears ring after a concert... YOU have (to some degree) damaged your ears and worsened your hearing. Whats in your ears????
Decibel Exposure Time Guidelines
Accepted standards for recommended permissible exposure time for continuous time weighted average noise, according to NIOSH and CDC, 2002. For every 3 dBs over 85dB, the permissible exposure time before possible damage can occur is cut in half.
Continuous dB
Permissible Exposure Time
85 db 8 hours
88 dB 4 hours
91 db 2 hours
94 db 1 hour
97 db 30 minutes
100 db 15 minutes
103 db 7.5 minutes
106 dB 3.75 min (< 4min)
109 dB 1.875 min (< 2min)
112 dB .9375 min (~1 min)
115 dB .46875 min (~30 sec)
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major +T bdsilva.
this is why i ALWAYS wear earplugs at shows, even if its not too loud.
many times your ears already have suffered the cumulative effects of road noise, listening to your car stereo, spousal ear beating, etc, before you even get there.
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Yep, fellow hearing sufferer here. I'm a 43yo male, suffering from hearing loss for the last couple of years. I didn't notice it until I got tinnitus (sp?). I now wear (open type) hearing aids to fight this, but I also notice, surprise surprise, that I hear music better with the hearing aids in. Typical listening level is 75-80dBA. For shows I always wear earplugs. Have been for the last few years. Should have learned this earlier.
Richard
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....spousal ear beating....
Amen brutha...the most detrimental inaural onslaught of all!
But on a serious note, what types of plugs or filters do you guys use or recommend? This is something that I've been thinking about lately as I've noticed (moreso those around me have pointed out) that my hearing is not quite what it use to be.
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How do you guys handle the bass when wearing ear plugs?
When I wear ear plugs it feels like the bass wants to explode from my chest or something like that.
Not sure how to explain it really.
The only way I can attempt to explain it is when I put on earplugs it feels like I'm capping pressure and I can feel that pressure more so than when not wearing earplugs and it's kind of a uncomfortable feeling.
So I don't wear plugs although I know I should be and I still carry them with me.
It's even worst when it's a very bass heavy show too.
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How do you guys handle the bass when wearing ear plugs?
When I wear ear plugs it feels like the bass wants to explode from my chest or something like that.
Use better earplugs. :P Of course, I can't say that until I know: what earplugs do you use?
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115 db is 3 times louder than 85 dB, btw.
louder
my wifes dance school has the stereo at 80-90db
didn't know that +t
as for earplugs i used the foam ones a lot then i got the hifi ones
they either work reallllly good or not at all
because everything comes in clear but there doesn't seem to be much difference between having them in and having them out as far as the overall volume goes
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if you haven't invested in custom ear plugs, you really should.
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How do you guys handle the bass when wearing ear plugs?
When I wear ear plugs it feels like the bass wants to explode from my chest or something like that.
Use better earplugs. :P Of course, I can't say that until I know: what earplugs do you use?
the ones you sent me
I don't remember what they were exactly know now, but they were the extras you kicked down a while back.
ety's I thought just don't recall the model.
That would make sense though hah
yea yea I know about the customs...
think I would know the difference between now and know
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How do you guys handle the bass when wearing ear plugs?
When I wear ear plugs it feels like the bass wants to explode from my chest or something like that.
Not sure how to explain it really.
The only way I can attempt to explain it is when I put on earplugs it feels like I'm capping pressure and I can feel that pressure more so than when not wearing earplugs and it's kind of a uncomfortable feeling.
So I don't wear plugs although I know I should be and I still carry them with me.
It's even worst when it's a very bass heavy show too.
It's an illusion. Once you put the plugs in you sort of trick your brain into thinking it's quieter, yet the 'feel it in you chest' bass sensation is not reduced, so you notice that sensation more and it can seem amplified. In addition, in the ear hearing only range (vs the tactile bass range I just mentioned), most plugs are far more effective at blocking higher frequencies than lower ones. Even though the sound pressure levels for all frequencies are reduced at the eardrum, the higher frequencies are reduced more than the lower ones.
It's hard to design a plug that absorbs more low frequencies and less of the highs. High frequencies are easy to block, but low frequencies easily penetrate stuff, including your body and head and can 'bypass' the fear plug to a limited extent. Foam plugs are very effective at sealing your ear canal and lowering SPLs of all frequencies but their response is not flat - they absorb way more high frequencies than lows. The Etymotic plugs attempt to flatten the response curve, but they still roll off at the top end. Some people love them, including many here. But personally I don't like them at all, I get a weird resonance. I even tried putting the Ety plastic chamber in a foam plug instead of the flanged seal but that didn't work either. That's the only reason I haven't gotten customs made. After trying the Etymotic plugs I'm worried I won't like them either.
I prefer the cheapo 30db reduction blue plugs from the drug store. If the music is just a bit too loud I just insert them partially with a bit of a gap, and adjust the gap as a sort of 'tone control' until I like the balance. If it's really loud or if there is the typical slamming overdriven subwoofer style bass I use a different strategy. I roll the plug like normal and insert it fully into my ear. After it expands I then compress the bit sticking out into my ear so that the foam is all compressed equally and flush with or even inside my ear a bit. That seems to maximally seal to absorb as much bass as possible, but also makes the plug denser and shorter overall and flattens the curve a little bit.
Sounds like crap for a little bit, but your brain soon adjusts to the sound and things sound normal again. Everything starts to sound clearer. Bear with it more than a few minutes if you can't stand the muffled sound and you'll adapt to it.
Maybe I should look into the customs again. Anyone here dislike the Ety universal fits but love their customs?
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nice explanation.
That is a much better way of saying it than I could of.
That is one reason why I haven't bought the customs yet either; is because of that.
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good custom molded ear plug are (relatively) flat and that low end build up effect is not present.
i feel so comfortable in mine that i will sometimes mix in them for loud, or long, festivals after getting a decent mix dialed in with them out. there is no comparison between good custom molds and the disposable type. none. the only thing i can't do in them is talk on the phone.
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That's encouraging hear, I'll look into them again. what reduction rating do you use/recommend?
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That's encouraging hear, I'll look into them again. what reduction rating do you use/recommend?
i have -15db and -25db "pads".
i wear -15db to work in and -25db for riding on the motorcycle and running the leaf blower/lawn mower/weed whacker.
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the ones you sent me
Right! Ety ER-20, I think. They're good. Custom plugs feel and sound much better, IMO. I definitely required an adjustment period when going from no plugs to ER-20s, and from ER-20s to custom, with the former a bigger adjustment.
Maybe I should look into the customs again. Anyone here dislike the Ety universal fits but love their customs?
I liked the sound of the Ety ER-20s better than no plugs, but I hated the fit. The custom's have great fit (obviously) and better sound.
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The best articles ever written about dB:
http://www.prorec.com/Articles/tabid/109/EntryId/50/What-s-your-dB-IQ.aspx
http://www.prorec.com/Articles/tabid/109/EntryId/51/What-s-your-dB-IQ.aspx
Excellent articles. I came across those years ago but had forgotten them. Thanks for the links, that's a great refresher. These should be posted in Teddy's reference materials thread if not in there already.
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fortunately i figured it out in the mid 90's when i was about 100 shows in
i remember seeing iron maiden, metallica, etc in high school, and literally wouldnt be able to hear right for DAYS. wish i knew then what i know now
Yep, fellow hearing sufferer here. I'm a 43yo male, suffering from hearing loss for the last couple of years. I didn't notice it until I got tinnitus (sp?). I now wear (open type) hearing aids to fight this, but I also notice, surprise surprise, that I hear music better with the hearing aids in. Typical listening level is 75-80dBA. For shows I always wear earplugs. Have been for the last few years. Should have learned this earlier.
Richard
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Terrible Tad Nugent... 1977 when he propted his Guitar up in front of his amp and we listened to feedback for two minutes... HUH??
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Given The OSHA standards, why is it legal for Concerts to be so loud? Why aren't there massive class action lawsuits against concert venues by all those who now have hearing loss?
-Noah
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Given The OSHA standards, why is it legal for Concerts to be so loud? Why aren't there massive class action lawsuits against concert venues by all those who now have hearing loss?
-Noah
I wondering the same thing. If a hot coffee can spur lawsuits, why aren't people paying attention to concert (and general noise) sound levels?
I also feel for staff working at these venues. Continuous exposure has to louder than most workplaces (factory, etc).
Richard