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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: Brian Skalinder on December 13, 2003, 02:31:10 PM
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2004-02-11 - edit - now up to ~100 hours of field and field-simulated testing.
I'm starting to perform bit-accuracy tests on the Hosa ODL-312 AES/EBU <-> optical digital format converter. After ~10 hrs of testing (admittedly far more to go), so far so good. I wanted to start doing these tests as I would use the unit in the field, so I'm running everything powered off of DC:
MK4/KC5/CMC6 > V3 (16-bit/44kHz) split to
[1] > coax > EgoSys Waveterminal 2496 > CEP2.0
[2] > AES/EBU > Hosa ODL-312 > optical > NJB3
- V3 is powered by 6v SLA.
- NJB3 is powered by its internal battery.
- Hosa ODL-312 takes 9v DC, draws 50mA (according to the specs, not verified) and is powered off a 9.6v RC, 1600 mAH battery pack.
- Files transferred NJB3 > PC via Adaptec Fireconnect 4300
I've trimmed the files from [1] and [2] to the same starting/ending samples and run the EAC WAV compare utility. So far, no differences whatsoever.*
*Outside of the 10 bit-perfect hours, though, I've twice now encountered a problem on the *PC* side. Somehow the L/R channels are swapped and one of the channels is offset by 1 sample relative to the other. WTF. Not a clue trying to sort this one out. So at the beginning of each run I test to make sure L is recording to L and R is recording to R on both the NJB3 and PC. When this criteria is met, I proceed with the tests and so far the results have been only positive.
Lots more testing to go, but I thought everyone would like to know how it's going so far.
FWIW, I picked up my Hosa ODL-312 at Full Compass (I think) for ~$50, shipped. Not quote as cheap as some of the others, but so far so good on the bit-accuracy front and this thing is built like a brick.
I'll post a few pics in a second here and will report back after further testing.
Edit: Confirmed bit-accuracy through ~70 hrs of testing now. I'm done - 70 hrs is good enough for me.
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have you tryed to take the aes pro signal and convert it to optical yet?
does this box work similar to the midiman co2? when taking the coax input, does it output optical and also the coax output? that would be handy for me, if indeed it doesnt take a "pro" signal, for patchers
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Haven't gotten to testing the V3's AES pro signal output yet, Dustin - only the AES1 consumer output. It's in the plans, though - I'll get to it. BTW, this box only does AES/EBU > S/PDIF optical or vice versa - one input, one output, not simultaneous output of different formats. They make a similar model that converts S/PDIF coax > S/PDIF optical and vice versa, but again - one input, one ouput, no simultaneous output of different formats.
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hopefully it does the aes pro sigan > optical, then i would be totally covered!
im going to start doing some tests on my little box that i got. verifying that it is bit perfect and no dropouts occur
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Yes, I'm a geek. I spent the better part of my weekend continuing these tests. I've now run a total of ~20 hrs of testing with 100% bit-accuracy across the two signal paths. That's the equivalent of about 10 shows for me. I'm feeling very positive about this setup right now! :coolguy:
I don't plan on spending loads more time in field-simulated testing at home. In the field, I'll still run V3 > DAT/JB3 concurrently for a while for further testing, but for the time being I'm convinced this is the box for which I've been looking.
Dustin - I'll run 2 field-simulated home tests out of the V3s AES pro output and let you know how it goes. Of course, if you're gonna go down this road instead of the box you have now, keep in mind you'll want to do your own testing with the MMe.
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excellent, HUGE +T brian....i now will get that converter to do the same you are doing, TRYING to eliminate dat.... :P
thanks again brian,very cool... 8)
bean
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excellent, HUGE +T brian....i now will get that converter to do the same you are doing, TRYING to eliminate dat.... :P
thanks again brian,very cool... 8)
bean
Not sure exactly what gear you're using these days, Bean, but the equivalent model for coax S/PDIF <-> optical S/PDIF is the Hosa ODL-276. Keep in mind I've [a] not tested the -276 (only the -312), and unless you're using a V3, your S/PDIF transmitter may be different. So, I'd recommend bit-accuracy testing with your specific format converter and input/output devices.
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Yeah, I'm glad to hear the HOSA units are looking good. I've got my eye on the 276 model for use with my JB3... The Midiman CO2 I bought failed its first test...
Terry
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What firmware are you running on the Jukebox 3? Are you starting your WAV compare right at the beginning of the recorded signal?
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What firmware are you running on the Jukebox 3? Are you starting your WAV compare right at the beginning of the recorded signal?
I don't have the JB3 in front of me, but I'm pretty sure I'm running 1.32.02.
I have not been starting the WAV compare right at the beginning of the JB3/DAT recorded signal - I've just been finding the same starting/ending sample very early/late in the ~3hr WAVs. Figured that would be sufficient as it's basically impossible to actually start the recordings on exactly the same sample and I'll always have a minute or two or more pre and post recording relative to the start/end of the music, anyway.
Should I be starting my WAV compare at the beginning of the recorded signal? And if so, which one - the DAT or JB3 (I assume JB3)? And why? Want to make sure I do this right...am I missing something?
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I have no idea, but it sounds like you are doing it correctly Brian... I'm looking at the Hosa ODL 276 right now. If I buy one, I'll get with you and see how you are doing your tests...
Terry
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so, brian
you are using the 312, since im going to want to do the aes pro signal > optical, i will be wanting that unit?
im going to start testing on my box tonight!
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Yes, it sounds as if you are doing it right. Just asking because between the first 20 and 30 samples, the Jukebox 3 hiccups for a few samples, almost always. I don't recall which firmware I'm running, but it's the latest.
It's not an issue for me as I always start the deck a few minutes early anyways.
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how can i sync up the 2 recordings to the correct samlpes? so that i can compare them with eac?
i posted this in the computer section also
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Yes, it sounds as if you are doing it right. Just asking because between the first 20 and 30 samples, the Jukebox 3 hiccups for a few samples, almost always. I don't recall which firmware I'm running, but it's the latest.
It's not an issue for me as I always start the deck a few minutes early anyways.
yeah, just give it about 15-20 seconds of lead time and you're good to go. Another trick I've learned is to start your recording way early, then pause it (similar to pause/record on the sonys) until you're ready to go for good. That eliminates some of the problems, especially if you're not good at anticipating...
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Yes, it sounds as if you are doing it right. Just asking because between the first 20 and 30 samples, the Jukebox 3 hiccups for a few samples, almost always. I don't recall which firmware I'm running, but it's the latest.
It's not an issue for me as I always start the deck a few minutes early anyways.
yeah, just give it about 15-20 seconds of lead time and you're good to go. Another trick I've learned is to start your recording way early, then pause it (similar to pause/record on the sonys) until you're ready to go for good. That eliminates some of the problems, especially if you're not good at anticipating...
Cool, thanks for that info, guys. I'll try a field test and check the first 30 seconds or so to see how it goes. I suspect just as you say.
I suck at anticipating, so...I'm trying to get into the habit of starting up a few minutes early. Easier to do with peace of mind on the JB3 than on a 2hr DAT that I'm not sure will get me through the whole set! :)
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excellent, HUGE +T brian....i now will get that converter to do the same you are doing, TRYING to eliminate dat.... :P
thanks again brian,very cool... 8)
bean
Not sure exactly what gear you're using these days, Bean, but the equivalent model for coax S/PDIF <-> optical S/PDIF is the Hosa ODL-276. Keep in mind I've [a] not tested the -276 (only the -312), and unless you're using a V3, your S/PDIF transmitter may be different. So, I'd recommend bit-accuracy testing with your specific format converter and input/output devices.
i plaN On running it w/ a v3, but the AES out on my dmic would work, correct???
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I assume so, but haven't tested it with that device, so...never know?
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I assume so, but haven't tested it with that device, so...never know?
cool, thanks brian..id buy one and do some tests of my own.......but working a bunch is limiting what i can tape aT THE moment :P ;D
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Yes, it sounds as if you are doing it right. Just asking because between the first 20 and 30 samples, the Jukebox 3 hiccups for a few samples, almost always. I don't recall which firmware I'm running, but it's the latest.
It's not an issue for me as I always start the deck a few minutes early anyways.
This might sound retarded but how long is a "sample"?
I know my JB3 likes to do what I can describe as a worbly pop at the beginning of a recording but it's all of maybe a second long if that.
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Does the HOSA work with higher bit depth & sample rates too?
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I assume it supports whatever bit-depths and sample rates are provided by the AES/EBU and S/PDIF standards, but I don't know for certain.
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I assume it supports whatever bit-depths and sample rates are provided by the AES/EBU and S/PDIF standards, but I don't know for certain.
and youre running it out of the pro or consumer side???......also, do you use a 110>75 transformer or does the converter take care of that too.... ???
thanks,
bean
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Right now I've only tested out of the V3 AES consumer output. I'm gonna do some mimimal testing out of the AES pro transmitter after Xmas.
I do not use a 110 > 75 ohm impedance transformer. I don't think the resistance issue is applicable in optical. I don't really know if it translates 110 > 75 before converting to optical. I suspect not as I can't think of a reason why it would or should convert 110 > 75 ohms.
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im thinking about picking the unit up to do aes pro from my mini me > optical... but i havent decided yet
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Right now I've only tested out of the V3 AES consumer output. I'm gonna do some mimimal testing out of the AES pro transmitter after Xmas.
I do not use a 110 > 75 ohm impedance transformer. I don't think the resistance issue is applicable in optical. I don't really know if it translates 110 > 75 before converting to optical. I suspect not as I can't think of a reason why it would or should convert 110 > 75 ohms.
thanks brian, the reason for the 20 questions is if this all works out(which it seems to be bit-perfect and all that), ill be running v3>converter>jb3 for a backup/easy transfer kinda thing 8)i appreciate all the knowledge you've spread, +T brian.... 8)
bean
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This might sound retarded but how long is a "sample"?
hertz units s-1 or 1/s or 1 cycle per second. so for example, kilo = thousand in SI units , so 48kHz means there are 48,000 samples per second. so if there are only pops in the first 20-30 samples.
i.e. 25/48000 = 5.2 x 10-4 seconds
so 16bit 48kHz really means there are 48,000 points at which 16 bits of data are collected.
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This might sound retarded but how long is a "sample"?
i.e. 25/48000 = 5.2 x 10-4 seconds
Thanks chase..! damn with a sample being .00052 seconds long u'd think we'd be able to drop a few here and there ;) :lol: just kidding of course ;)
Had I put the thought into it like sample rate I should've figured that out on my own.. for some reason I was trying to picture a .wav in, persay, cool edit and how you'd highlight a sample or whatever.. thinking it was some other form of digital editing "measure"..
Sorry for that dumb question ;) Great answer though! +T
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anyone else tried one of these??? i think im getting one pretty soon to run w/ a jb3!!!
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anyone else tried one of these??? i think im getting one pretty soon to run w/ a jb3!!!
Go for it, Bean. Now if only I could find my Sound Pros toslink-RA > mini-RA cable I bought. Gone. Not a clue where it went - it didn't even make it home from work. No, it's not in my home office...flawless filing system, remember? ;)
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anyone else tried one of these??? i think im getting one pretty soon to run w/ a jb3!!!
Go for it, Bean. Now if only I could find my Sound Pros toslink-RA > mini-RA cable I bought. Gone. Not a clue where it went - it didn't even make it home from work. No, it's not in my home office...flawless filing system, remember? ;)
i have a quickie tho, i dont believe, but im just making sure:
are optical cables directional???
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No.
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No.
thanks matt!!
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anyone else tried one of these??? i think im getting one pretty soon to run w/ a jb3!!!
Go for it, Bean. Now if only I could find my Sound Pros toslink-RA > mini-RA cable I bought. Gone. Not a clue where it went - it didn't even make it home from work. No, it's not in my home office...flawless filing system, remember? ;)
oh yeah, brian, how does this thing getpowered?
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oh yeah, brian, how does this thing getpowered?
Uhhhh, Bean - take a look at the very first post in the thread. 8)
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oh yeah, brian, how does this thing getpowered?
Uhhhh, Bean - take a look at the very first post in the thread. 8)
oooops, i was too captivated by the pics!! :smoking:
also, i think ive done my homework right, if i am, i believe the 2 internals in the jb3 will go 6 hrs continuously, and the converter will go about the same off of one external rc batt??
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also, whatsup w/ the channel swapping?? ???
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also, whatsup w/ the channel swapping?? ???
The channel swapping doesn't have anything to do with the ODL-312, Bean, don't sweat it. It's my soundcard - I've duplicated the problem with multiple external digital sources: D8, D100, V3, DA-30. The soundcard just plain gets it wrong sometimes. WTF!! Kinda irritating, frankly, and if I wasn't going to use my JB3 as my primary recorder, I'd probably switch cards.
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also, whatsup w/ the channel swapping?? ???
The channel swapping doesn't have anything to do with the ODL-312, Bean, don't sweat it. It's my soundcard - I've duplicated the problem with multiple external digital sources: D8, D100, V3, DA-30. The soundcard just plain gets it wrong sometimes. WTF!! Kinda irritating, frankly, and if I wasn't going to use my JB3 as my primary recorder, I'd probably switch cards.
whew, thats cool!! :D
i never realized the odl-312 was somuch, well, not much, but 100 bux around!!
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i never realized the odl-312 was somuch, well, not much, but 100 bux around!!
Uhhhh...there you go again, Bean, not reading the first post in the thread. Published prices are BS, give Full Compass a call.
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hey - don't know if the question is still out there, but on the subject of how do you synch up two sources for comparison:
I like to start both recording devices going without a source signal turned on. Then you switch on the source. This can be accomplished by pressing play on a cd player if that's the source, turning an FM tuner on, or turning your phantom power on if you're testing with mics. Makes the start points real easy to find. You don't even need to worry about the end points - most comparison programs will give you a result that tells you everything is identical but A is XX seconds longer than B. (I needed an efficient way of doing this when I did all that JB3 bit accuracy testing).
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i never realized the odl-312 was somuch, well, not much, but 100 bux around!!
Uhhhh...there you go again, Bean, not reading the first post in the thread. Published prices are BS, give Full Compass a call.
i noticed you said 50 bux,but when i shopped around for awhile, the online prices were about 100 bux, and i checked about 5 diff places!!
i guess ill have to give em a call!!
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brian, please help me out w/ the batt for thge odl-312!!!!im clueless!!! :'(
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brian, please help me out w/ the batt for thge odl-312!!!!im clueless!!! :'(
bean. radioshak
battery: 23-331 9.6V/1600mAh $24.99
charger:23-446 $44.99
extra male/female rc plug kit $1.75
hack off the plug end of the hosa's wall wort. attach it to the female half of the extra plug (the battery comes with male attached) i discarded their crimp connectors, the guage of the wallwort is too thin, and used some telephone 'beans' to make the crimp. attach the male end to the wallwort. charge up the battery. you're good to go. the hosa draws 60mA, so you should be able to leave it on for an entire day.
jr
edit for pricing
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http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F009%5F010%5F000%5F000&product%5Fid=23%2D440 (http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F009%5F010%5F000%5F000&product%5Fid=23%2D440)
and maybe a couple of theses!!!
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F009%5F010%5F000%5F000&product%5Fid=23%2D331 (http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F009%5F010%5F000%5F000&product%5Fid=23%2D331)
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brian, please help me out w/ the batt for thge odl-312!!!!im clueless!!! :'(
bean. radioshak
battery: 23-331 9.6V/1600mAh $24.99
charger:23-446 $44.99
extra male/female rc plug kit $1.75
hack off the plug end of the hosa's wall wort. attach it to the female half of the extra plug (the battery comes with male attached) i discarded their crimp connectors, the guage of the wallwort is too thin, and used some telephone 'beans' to make the crimp. attach the male end to the wallwort. charge up the battery. you're good to go. the hosa draws 60mA, so you should be able to leave it on for an entire day.
jr
edit for pricing
telephone beans, please modify??
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http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F009%5F010%5F000%5F000&product%5Fid=23%2D440 (http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F009%5F010%5F000%5F000&product%5Fid=23%2D440)
and maybe a couple of theses!!!
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F009%5F010%5F000%5F000&product%5Fid=23%2D331 (http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F009%5F010%5F000%5F000&product%5Fid=23%2D331)
the charger i got is the rapid charger, good for festivals in case there is limited power and need to give up the plug, or charge something else.
i really don't think you need two of those batteries rigth away, unless you are going right into a festival environment. one will last all day.
beans and 3m crimps(avaviable at hardware stores) below
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are these a bean crimp???
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F009%5F010%5F000%5F000&product%5Fid=23%2D445 (http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F009%5F010%5F000%5F000&product%5Fid=23%2D445)
??? ???what do i need to crimp the hosa>rcbatt?
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are these a bean crimp???
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F009%5F010%5F000%5F000&product%5Fid=23%2D445 (http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F009%5F010%5F000%5F000&product%5Fid=23%2D445)
??? ???what do i need to crimp the hosa>rcbatt?
yeah, those are the extra leads you need to get. like i said, those solderless connectors are for a much larger gauge wire than the wallwort's. i chopped them off and used the crimps above.
jr
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are these a bean crimp???
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F009%5F010%5F000%5F000&product%5Fid=23%2D445 (http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F009%5F010%5F000%5F000&product%5Fid=23%2D445)
??? ???what do i need to crimp the hosa>rcbatt?
yeah, those are the extra leads you need to get. like i said, those solderless connectors are for a much larger gauge wire than the wallwort's. i chopped them off and used the crimps above.
jr
im confused, john, i bought these ones!!!you think the guage will be to big???
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F009%5F010%5F000%5F000&product%5Fid=23%2D445 (http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F009%5F010%5F000%5F000&product%5Fid=23%2D445)
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are these a bean crimp???
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F009%5F010%5F000%5F000&product%5Fid=23%2D445 (http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F009%5F010%5F000%5F000&product%5Fid=23%2D445)
??? ???what do i need to crimp the hosa>rcbatt?
yeah, those are the extra leads you need to get. like i said, those solderless connectors are for a much larger gauge wire than the wallwort's. i chopped them off and used the crimps above.
jr
im confused, john, i bought these ones!!!you think the guage will be to big???
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F009%5F010%5F000%5F000&product%5Fid=23%2D445 (http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F009%5F010%5F000%5F000&product%5Fid=23%2D445)
yes you are 8) you got the right ones, but they are sized for 16-18 qauge wire. the wire from the hosa is approx 22-24 ga. so, even when i folded the wire onto itself, it came out of these prepackaged ends. chop them off and use something else(smaller, solder/tape, etc).
jr
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so id go to the hardware store, and get those dolphin things(beans)???? then chomp off the crappy ends on the extra leads, and apply the dolphin ones!!!what about the guage difference???
will the dolphin ones be able to adjust from 22guage to 16 or whatever????so what im asking is, the dolphin will fit the extra lead guage(22), and also the hosa guage (16)???
thanks,
bean
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FWFW, the full compass hosa rep on the phone yesterday was chatting w/ me, and asked why i needed the odl-312, so i told him about our liul hobby, so the cool mutha fugga says shipping is free if i send him a couple discs, what a deal!!!
anyhoo, i HIGHLY reccomend giving full compass a call, theyre super friendly and said they were out of stock, i let the guy when i kinda needed it by, and he said, hold on, ill call ya back in 30(im like whatever, hes not calling me), in about 35 mins d00d called and said theyd special process one so i could have it by the 27th!!!
HELL YEAH!!!
bean
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so id go to the hardware store, and get those dolphin things(beans)???? then chomp off the crappy ends on the extra leads, and apply the dolphin ones!!!what about the guage difference???
will the dolphin ones be able to adjust from 22guage to 16 or whatever????so what im asking is, the dolphin will fit the extra lead guage(22), and also the hosa guage (16)???
thanks,
bean
yes. your hardware store may not have the dolphins, if you see a telephone guy, ask him for a couple. the store is more likely to have the 3m's, or a smaller gauge solderless crimp. id none of that works, i'll mail you some.
jr
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so id go to the hardware store, and get those dolphin things(beans)???? then chomp off the crappy ends on the extra leads, and apply the dolphin ones!!!what about the guage difference???
will the dolphin ones be able to adjust from 22guage to 16 or whatever????so what im asking is, the dolphin will fit the extra lead guage(22), and also the hosa guage (16)???
thanks,
bean
yes. your hardware store may not have the dolphins, if you see a telephone guy, ask him for a couple. the store is more likely to have the 3m's, or a smaller gauge solderless crimp. id none of that works, i'll mail you some.
jr
the 3m's dont look as neat/sturdy, are they as effective!!! ???