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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: phatDats4u on August 06, 2008, 05:43:42 PM
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Anyone have any luck/experience with this? might give it a go this weekend, some tips would be helpful as I've never tried this with directional mics
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yes, definitely try it, cards are nice cause there is no rear lobe thus reduced crowd noise while also providing a wide stage presence; you can run din, ortf, with good results, the only peril is running directly at the drums and cymbals which will ruin a recording, and that you get no vocals on stage since they are run through the house pa in most situations
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depends on the band's setup, but I generally like x/y with cards onstage. I think ortf gives too wide/panned of an image when that close. x/y tends to give the image a bit of depth and gives more of the effect that the music is detached and behind your playback speakers instead of coming out of and/or directly between them.
Edit: I don't like to record bands with vocals from onstage. Never sounds right. Rare exception is for "single mic" bluegrass where I can get my mics up by theirs to pick up vocals.
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Right on, it's gonna be an outdoor gig (atma rising fest in warsaw, NY) and I have no idea what the deal will be with various band setups. I'm trying to decide between onstage or the section- I guess I'll try some different spots and see what sound I like best.
+t's
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Possibly with Schoeps you need XY. :P In all seriousness though I've never liked XY. From 460's to 414's to the Neumanns. I prefer ORTF onstage. But then everyone's ears are different.
Edited for 3rd grade grammer. :-[
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IMHO, it really depends more on the stage set up, location of musicians, amps, drums, etc. Frequently, no one "classic" mic config is necessarily going to work in an on stage setting. If the stage is not very deep, and the drums are right there in your face, you are going to have difficulty under most circumstances. If you have the option of splitting the mics, it can many times produce a much better recording. If there are a lot of vocals, and you care about capturing them, unless you can get your mics far enough in to pick up some of the monitors, you are better off further back.
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Ya you are spot on. I mostly do bluegrass up close so it's a different ballgame. Other than that instrumental jazz type stuff. So ORTF might suit that better. Who knows. I know Skalinder prefers XY. Maybe my ears suck. ;D I should try XY more. :hmmm: :hmmm:
<------I mean the LSD2 stuff sounds sick...
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i prefer non coincident(din,nos,ortf) when the drums are center, but xy when they are off of center. if there are vocals, dont run onstage.
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I never cared much for XY but recently I had a chance to run stage lip for a local bluegrass band and ran XY @ 110 degrees and I liked what I captured w/ my 930's.
Peace
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Another vote for ORTF. Check out some of the Club d'Elf recordings on archive.org. All of the Lizard Lounge recordings are done stage lip which is onstage there. Plenty of sources to check out too.
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Another vote for ORTF. Check out some of the Club d'Elf recordings on archive.org. All of the Lizard Lounge recordings are done stage lip which is onstage there. Plenty of sources to check out too.
I do a lot of stage lip card recording at a few local venues and ORTF with center stage drums sound great to me!
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i prefer non coincident(din,nos,ortf) when the drums are center, but xy when they are off of center. if there are vocals, dont run onstage.
I agree. I usually run something close to DIN on-stage, unless the drums are off center, then X-Y.
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One of the nice things about audio recording is much research has been done. It has given us a bunch of mic setups: ORTF, DIN, NOS, XY, MS, Blumlein and so forth. But not every setup is correct for all or any venue. Williams paper on the subject covers how to set up any microphone based on the width, in degrees, or the sound source. It assumes a specific speaker setup but you are not bound by it.
http://www.rycote.com/assets/documents/technical_files/The%20Stereophonic%20Zoom.pdf
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Thanks for the input everyone, I'm packing up & heading over to the venue right now- +t's all around
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If there are a lot of vocals, and you care about capturing them, unless you can get your mics far enough in to pick up some of the monitors, you are better off further back.
It also depends on what is going through the monitors and how loud they are. The small juke joint that I record in the most runs up to three different monitor mixes and the volume on them runs from zip to screaming, depending on what the musician wants. What's in the mixes is anybody's guess as well. For example, I've heard a bass player that just wanted the kick drum in his monitor. I finished post processing a recording from the stage lip and there was nothing for vocals in the singer's monitors.
I like the clarity you get from stage lip recordings but it sure seems to be a crap shoot whether it will have an acceptable balance between the instruments, the vocals, etc.
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I don't tape at all at stage lip or on stage if there are vocals, period
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I don't tape at all at stage lip or on stage if there are vocals, period
ditto
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Thanks all. This has been a very informative thread. I tape mostly house concerts and have only been recording for less than a year. Depending upon the house setup (i.e. living room size) I can either get back against the rear wall or a front row sit. Sitting upfront has been challenging due to the proximity of the musicians (typically a vocalists and two acoustic instruments (guitars or hand drum). I've mostly done ORTF or DIN (since I had the KWON bar) with my Neumann AK40s. I haven't tried XY recently but will after reading this thread. Having a vocalist within a few feet of the mics is real trouble, but I've managed some nice recordings even if the vocals were a little hot. Any more recommendations recording stage lip in rock/folk acoustical settings with cardiods?