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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: moooose on November 07, 2008, 05:56:17 AM
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it seems that the 660 is getting a successor:
http://www.soundonsound.com/news?NewsID=10885
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it's also up on the marantz website. although no info, they do have photos posted of all sides...
30% smaller (than the PMD-660). XLR inputs with phantom power. digital coax input. records to SD cards. 1/8" line-in. no indication if its 24 bit or 16 bit. but considering the PMD-671 is a 24 bit device while the PMD-670 was limited to 16 bit. let's hope the PMD-661 brings the same step up :)
overall, looks like a killer deck.
(http://www.d-mpro.com/users/FolderData/%7BD7BE3B59-5BA6-4892-8EA7-AC454FE0B5C8%7D/PMD661_Top_angle_thumb.jpg)
(http://www.d-mpro.com/users/FolderData/%7BD7BE3B59-5BA6-4892-8EA7-AC454FE0B5C8%7D/PMD661_back_thumb.jpg)
(http://www.d-mpro.com/users/FolderData/%7BD7BE3B59-5BA6-4892-8EA7-AC454FE0B5C8%7D/PMD661_front_thumb.jpg)
(http://www.d-mpro.com/users/FolderData/%7BD7BE3B59-5BA6-4892-8EA7-AC454FE0B5C8%7D/PMD661_LHside_thumb.jpg)
(http://www.d-mpro.com/users/FolderData/%7BD7BE3B59-5BA6-4892-8EA7-AC454FE0B5C8%7D/PMD661_RHside_thumb.jpg)
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The PMD661 can record at rates of up to 24-bit/96kHz and can accommodate up to 32GB of solid-state storage in the SDHC format (instead of using Compact Flash, as its predecessor did). A USB 2 connection enables recorded files to be copied to a DAW system, and a wired remote control can be connected to the device, so it can be set to record if the operator is not situated in the optimum recording position.
From the website linked in the OP.
If Busman mods this one to sound as good as the 660 then this is going to be a winner.
Dave.
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This thing looks perfect. Any idea about a price point or release date? And what are the dimensions? 30% smaller than the PMD660 is still a fairly substantial object.
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ahh, very good about the 24/96 and 32gb SDHC cards. I missed that in my first reading.
This thing looks perfect. Any idea about a price point or release date? And what are the dimensions? 30% smaller than the PMD660 is still a fairly substantial object.
price and release date are anyone's guess. and while you are correct about 30% smaller than the PMD-660 won't make this tiny (obviously, it'll be larger than the R-09's, MT's, PMD-620s, etc, etc), but this has XLR inputs with phantom. While no published specs are out, from the pictures, it looks like it'll be smaller than the Fostex FR-2LE, which will make this the smallest deck available with XLR inputs and phantom power. also, I think the S/PDIF input is great. other than the MT and MTII, this will be the smallest 24/96 deck with a digital input (we all know the original MT wasn't the most reliable. I think the MTII has improved reliability, but I wasn't ready to give M-Audio another chance).
personally, this deck looks to have everything that I would be looking for. and would definitely consider selling my Tascam HD-P2 and replace it with this deck (the only hesitation is that the HD-P2 has word clock and is easily sync'ed to other decks for 4 channel recording. I've done this a few times with a friend who also has an HD-P2).
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This thing looks perfect. Any idea about a price point or release date? And what are the dimensions? 30% smaller than the PMD660 is still a fairly substantial object.
One site (http://www.ziogiorgio.com/viewnews.php?id=19015 (http://www.ziogiorgio.com/viewnews.php?id=19015)) is reporting 165 x 93 x 36 mm (6.5" x 3.7" x 1.4"). Compared to 183.5 x 113 x 47 mm (7.2" x 4.5" x 1.9") for the PMD660...
EDIT: They are also saying that it goes 8 hours on four AA's.
AND EDIT AGAIN: A Dutch site (http://www.mennegat.nl/nl/product.php?artid=430 (http://www.mennegat.nl/nl/product.php?artid=430)) is saying 595 euros. Typically, the price in euros is about the same as the price in dollars or a few bucks cheaper (due to the exchange rates). Maybe we are looking at sub-$600?
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This thing looks perfect. Any idea about a price point or release date? And what are the dimensions? 30% smaller than the PMD660 is still a fairly substantial object.
One site (http://www.ziogiorgio.com/viewnews.php?id=19015 (http://www.ziogiorgio.com/viewnews.php?id=19015)) is reporting 165 x 93 x 36 mm (6.5" x 3.7" x 1.4"). Compared to 183.5 x 113 x 47 mm (7.2" x 4.5" x 1.9") for the PMD660...
EDIT: They are also saying that it goes 8 hours on four AA's.
those dimensions are also consistent with the photos. I just printed out the photos and scaled the drawing based on the known dimenions of XLR and RCA jacks. I came up with 6.7" x 3.8" x 1.5". that's very close to what that article states (6.5" x 3.7" x 1.4"). So I'd say that those dimensions are accurate, even though there's no official dimensions on the marantz website yet.
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wow nice
smaller then the fr-2le (57/206/132mm)
has coax in
batteries could be a winner too
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damn!
looks really nice....
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I want one.
now.
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damn,looks fantastic
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Looks like it has everything ya need in a nice small package.
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Line In 2? Could it be that these can produce on-the-fly matrices ala the UA5?
Wonder if the stock version will sound any better or handle signals any hotter than the stock 660? The fact that the XLRs are labeled mic/line suggests probably so, at least on the hot signal question.
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Well, I don't think this adds much to the information we have already uncovered, but here is the advance info sheet from Marantz (.pdf attached). I got this from a friend who sells Marantz products. He said that, in terms of sound quality, it is "much like the FR2-LE" (the quotes are around his words; he said it is considerably smaller, though). The expectation is that it will retail for $599.00. He is unsure whether the digi-in re-samples or not; he has inquired with Marantz and will let me know when they respond. I also asked him if he knew about the release date; I will post that info if/when I get it...
EDIT: Grammar.
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that looks really sweet!
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I'm not a huge fan of the way it's laid out (ie table-top style controls), but other than that this thing looks killer. Mod that sucker up & I could have a SOLID bit bucket for the V3 or a tiny 24 bit all-in-one for low-profile/travel etc. Damn.
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If this sounds decent stock, I will be all over this by summer. Been doing 24 bit inside with a laptop and UA-5 and love it.
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Is there some type of "button hold" on this? Does one exist on a 660?
Looks like with the deck's layout, it would be easy for a wrong button to get pressed during a recording, if the thing was stuffed in a bag. If it can get modded to sound like an ACM671, this thing will be awesome!
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Is there some type of "button hold" on this? Does one exist on a 660?
Looks like with the deck's layout, it would be easy for a wrong button to get pressed during a recording, if the thing was stuffed in a bag. If it can get modded to sound like an ACM671, this thing will be awesome!
don't know about the PMD660. but on the new PMD661, there's clearly a switch for "key lock". look at the last picture.
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yes the 660 has a lock feature. when engaged only the levels are adjustable.
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Smaller, takes SD cards........ and has coax. This puppy will be an extremely hot seller. Nice job Marantz!
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I like the fact that the meter ranges have several steps between -12 and 0, something that is lacking on a lot of 24 bit units that have only a couple of positions between those two points in the range.
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H A W T!
Hopefully Busman will be up for modding this one too.
Or even better maybe it won't need a mod.
I love my busman 660 so this should be stellar.
I've been wanting to go balls deep into 24bit for a while.
This should do it for me.
Nice find and great thread.
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Smaller, takes SD cards........ and has coax. This puppy will be an extremely hot seller. Nice job Marantz!
Assuming it is bit-perfect. Apparently, Marantz has yet to provide a straight answer with respect to that issue. I have a hard time believing that they wouldn't make the digital-in bit accurate, however...
As far as release date, Marantz claims late (December) 2008 or early (January) 2009. Apparently, though, a Marantz rep is currently traveling around showing a pre-production prototype and soliciting input from some of their dealers. This rep is scheduled to be making the rounds through mid-December. This would seem to make that target date pretty unrealistic, but maybe first quarter 2009?
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at only $600 this thing is going to kill the resale value of the 660... anybody want mine now before this comes out?
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This looks like a nice upgrade to the 660. Smaller, 24bit and a digital in. Very nice !!!
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Smaller, takes SD cards........ and has coax. This puppy will be an extremely hot seller. Nice job Marantz!
Assuming it is bit-perfect. Apparently, Marantz has yet to provide a straight answer with respect to that issue. I have a hard time believing that they wouldn't make the digital-in bit accurate, however...
regarding the ditial input and bit-perfectness. While nothing has been confirmed, the other recent decks released in the PMD series with digital inputs (namely, the 670 and 671) were both bit-perfect digital inputs. So at least Marantz has a good track record there.
The other unanswered question is automatic seamless 2 gig splits. Again, at this point in time, Marantz has a lot of experience making these flash-card recorders, and I'd expect this deck to have seamless splits.
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this has a 2nd line in as well, looks like a mini plug. Any idea of if this box could run an on the fly matrix? like a ua5?
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regarding the ditial input and bit-perfectness. While nothing has been confirmed, the other recent decks released in the PMD series with digital inputs (namely, the 670 and 671) were both bit-perfect digital inputs. So at least Marantz has a good track record there.
The other unanswered question is automatic seamless 2 gig splits. Again, at this point in time, Marantz has a lot of experience making these flash-card recorders, and I'd expect this deck to have seamless splits.
Well, going by the track record again, their last offering, the 620, records up to the 4 GB .wav format limit in a single file. Otherwise, you can set an auto split by time increment. Since some aspects of the two recorders look pretty similar (buttons and screen, for example) seems reasonable to assume that they have brought forward some of the other features too...Guess we'll have to wait and see; I hope some more information will be available soon...
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i called this a while back in a thread somewhere that i now cannot find... oh well there goes my i told you so moment.
this thing looks like a winner. i had the 670 when the 671 came out and that sucked. i think the 660, due to its size will retain a decent selling price, but then again...
i want one of these.
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I wonder whether they've thought to include an MS matrix in the menu options, R-44 style? It certainly looks like a very well thought through device.
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ALMOST perfect...
if that 'line-in 2' on the side was "line/mic-in 2" with 'plugin power' I would get one...
(http://www.d-mpro.com/users/FolderData/%7BD7BE3B59-5BA6-4892-8EA7-AC454FE0B5C8%7D/PMD661_RHside_thumb.jpg)
digifish
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Also, no way to digitally patch in another deck. The Line Out appears to be RCA.
Still, its a winner for sure. Wish I had it now!
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looks so much better than the 660 for several reasons.
-RCA out
-Digi In
-Key Lock Switch
-Gain/Trim knob looks to be much easier to operate than the 660
-Metal tabs at end to protect the Gain/Trim knob
-Level Meters on the top for easy viewing
-30% Smaller
-Black w/White Display screen
-24/96
Looks like a wiener.
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This seems to be a very good device, solving almost every need.
It has built-in mics, which should be-at least I think- the same quality level than PDM620's (or others pocket size devices). In this case they should be better than the built-ins in Fostex which(as I can read) are very poor.
So it should do as an all-in-one the same work as edirol 09HR or Tascam DR1, plus the possibilities offered by more professional tools like Tascam HDP2, Fostex and Marantz pdm 671 with XLR and 48v.
Do you think it will substitute PDM 671?
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As an ACM 671 user, I definitely have some potential interest in this deck. Let's wait until Doug can take one apart, and how much room there is to replace/upgrade components.
I just wish it could be laid out a bit better to be run from the "being stuffed in a bag" position. However, if the 24 bit recording quality can approach an ACM671 (mic preamp and a>d), then this thing could be a slam dunk. I would GUESS that it runs on 4 aa batteries. I wonder how long it can run on internal power w/ phantom powering....
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This looks really nice. Potential for an excellent all-in-one, and you could even keep your old modded UA-5. Definitely has the chance to rival the FR2LE.
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For those saying it's too big, you aren't gonna get too much smaller than this and still have the ins and outs available, which are important.
I also think this looks like a real winner...mainly due to tiny size.
Two comments on the design...they really blew it putting the meter on the top. The meter on the 660 is on the end, which is perfectomundo. Same with the FR2LE. How can you watch your levels without taking it out of your bag?
Also, why put the meter on the top and the level controls on the side....that's stoopid...you have to have ready access to both the top and the side in order to both monitor and adjust your levels...which is possibly a bit cumbersome. In some bags with a tight fit, it might mean that you need to take the unit out to both set and view levels at the same time.
At first glance, it also looks that these level adjust knobs are too open and easily bumped...even with the offsets. Since this is a small deck, it's apt to be stashed in some tight places and that knob is gonna be a problem in that case...and even might be a problem when reaching into a bag during a show. I'm thinking that it looks like the 660 level adjustment is a better design. Since the 660 levels are flush, they're fairly immune to accidental movement.
Otherwise, looks like a winner to me.
BTW, I'm sure Busman will design a mod for this unit. His mod on the 660 is one of the best deck mods I've personally heard.
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so basically it's the size of a 6.5" long peice of 2x4. hmmmm.
does seem a bit bigger than I'd like it, as a good chunk of what I do is stealth. seems like it's just slightly too big to fit in a hoodie pocket. could work on a shoulder strap.
But it's appealing over the r-09HR or D50 because it has plain balanced XLR inputs. simpler wiring and better against interference.
I had been planning to wait and see the next revision of the MR-1 and the SD 702...This'll probably be in the mix depending on how long they take.
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It'd figure that just a few months after I bought my 660, Marantz would unveil its successor. It appears to address all of my "issues" with the 660 (while presenting a few new ones). The meter position on the 660 was my main gripe; putting it "angled" on top should allow "small edge" viewing of the meters from within a bag and it'll definitely make seeing the meters when the device is placed on a tabletop far easier. The USB 1.0 interface and comparatively expensive and fragile CF memory ran a close second and third on my list of 660 "complaints" (I use quotes because they're not so much complaints as things that could improve a "nearly perfect" machine) but those are "solved" in the 661.
The addition of an OLED display is a nice touch (but I've never used one in bright light). It'll probably reduce power consumption a little (while making a backlight unnecessary). I agree that the "nested and buried" level controls of the 660 (versus the exposed and "bumpable" knobs on the 661) are a better design. But maybe they're difficult enough to turn that "bumping" them out of whack will be improbable. I guess we'll see once these hit the street.
I should note that I am satisfied enough with my "Songcatcher" 660 that I won't be "upgrading" any time soon...
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I would not expect this to be issued as a successor of the 660, just a 24 bit model, if it's anything like the 670/671 relationship. In news gathering, court reporting, corporate A/V applications, house of worship, etc., the market for Marantz 16 bit machines are still very strong. There is every likelyhood that the 660 will continue in their line alongside the 661 just like the 670 currently does with the 671.
This unit is the closest thing to exactly what I have been waiting for to come out, and from a name I trust for quality and reliability. I can't wait to see one.
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Finally - I have been waiting for a solid, small bit-bucket for my AD2K+. I love my HD-P2 but I have been wanting something smaller (and not a MicroTrack). I will be all over this when it is released. WooHoo!!
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I was just about ordering an Edirol R09HR when I saw this new Marantz pdm661.
Given that I need a recorder which I can use for rehearsals and taping my concerts (solo classical piano, or piano and violin and larger ensembles) I would like a thing that can be upgraded with the following aims:
1)Rehearsals or concerts with no time or room to place a decent rig= all in one recorder and that's all
2)Better recordings (some time to spend on placing and possibility to carry more things with me)= recorder plus external mikes (o stereo mike).
With the new Marantz everything should work fine (I guess the on-board mics and mic preamp be about the same quality than Edirol).
With Edirol I should run a battery powered mic (Rode nt4 or Audiotechnica AT8022) or use an external phantom power unit like Art etc.
Of course nobody can compare the tho decks in terms of built in mikes and mic preamp quality as Marantz is not available yet;
but apart from this I would like to know if using an external phantom with a pocket recorder is exactly the same as running mics into XLR imputs on another deck like this marantz.
thank you for helping me
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I was just about ordering an Edirol R09HR when I saw this new Marantz pdm661.
Given that I need a recorder which I can use for rehearsals and taping my concerts (solo classical piano, or piano and violin and larger ensembles) I would like a thing that can be upgraded with the following aims:
1)Rehearsals or concerts with no time or room to place a decent rig= all in one recorder and that's all
2)Better recordings (some time to spend on placing and possibility to carry more things with me)= recorder plus external mikes (o stereo mike).
With the new Marantz everything should work fine (I guess the on-board mics and mic preamp be about the same quality than Edirol).
With Edirol I should run a battery powered mic (Rode nt4 or Audiotechnica AT8022) or use an external phantom power unit like Art etc.
Of course nobody can compare the tho decks in terms of built in mikes and mic preamp quality as Marantz is not available yet;
but apart from this I would like to know if using an external phantom with a pocket recorder is exactly the same as running mics into XLR imputs on another deck like this marantz.
thank you for helping me
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Whoa, now isn't this little guy interesting. I can't wait to hear what Doug thinks about mods when he gets his hands on one of these. ;D
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"...the on-board mics and mic preamp be about the same quality than Edirol..."
It could go either way. In the past, Marantz has seen ENG and court reporters (stenographers) as the primary markets for its portable recorders. Neither group needs the same sonic clarity that music and nature recordists do.
The pre could be similar to the PDM620, which is Marantz's most recent design. The PDM620 has its strengths, but it's audibly more noisy than the R-09HR. Or maybe Marantz re-worked the preamp found in the PMD671. That preamp is one of the best below $1000 (other contenders include the Tascam HD-P2 and Fostex FR-2LE).
We'll just have to wait for the answer. I'm hoping that there's enough room inside the PMD661's case for folks like Busman and Oade to do their magic. The Oade-modified PMD660 I owned for a while sounded great!
Flintstone
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thanks for answering.
You said: "The pre (in 661)could be similar to the PDM620, which is Marantz's most recent design. The PDM620 has its strengths, but it's audibly more noisy than the R-09HR"
This is true, and that's why I was just about to order an Edirol. But since I will in any way upgrade to an external mike solution (and preamp quality is important) I wonder how much better could be having an XLR input onboard (marantz) than using an external phantom power box with R09HR.
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I was just about ordering an Edirol R09HR when I saw this new Marantz pdm661.
Given that I need a recorder which I can use for rehearsals and taping my concerts (solo classical piano, or piano and violin and larger ensembles) I would like a thing that can be upgraded with the following aims:
1)Rehearsals or concerts with no time or room to place a decent rig= all in one recorder and that's all
2)Better recordings (some time to spend on placing and possibility to carry more things with me)= recorder plus external mikes (o stereo mike).
With the new Marantz everything should work fine (I guess the on-board mics and mic preamp be about the same quality than Edirol).
With Edirol I should run a battery powered mic (Rode nt4 or Audiotechnica AT8022) or use an external phantom power unit like Art etc.
Of course nobody can compare the tho decks in terms of built in mikes and mic preamp quality as Marantz is not available yet;
but apart from this I would like to know if using an external phantom with a pocket recorder is exactly the same as running mics into XLR imputs on another deck like this marantz.
thank you for helping me
I would be very careful if I was you. If you have time in your hands, wait till the oficial release, tests and TS members thoughts. I have both R-09HR and R-09 and I love them. On the other hand, I bought this Marantz PMD 620 8 months ago just because it was said to be a great machine.
Well, I wish I didn't. Only used it 3 times. There's no way you can compare R-09HR with the Marantz 620 IMHO. Of course this time we are discussing another machine. But I think you're in the same spot I was 8 months ago.
Just my 0.000002 cents.
Take care ;)
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thanks for answering.
You said: "The pre (in 661)could be similar to the PDM620, which is Marantz's most recent design. The PDM620 has its strengths, but it's audibly more noisy than the R-09HR"
This is true, and that's why I was just about to order an Edirol. But since I will in any way upgrade to an external mike solution (and preamp quality is important) I wonder how much better could be having an XLR input onboard (marantz) than using an external phantom power box with R09HR.
There's really no way to answer this definitively without seeing inside the 661. It's possible that the 661 preamp is probably a relative of the 671. This supposition is fairly logical; they're both 24-bit machines with balanced (and powered) microphone inputs. The 620 has a 1/8" input (as does the R09HR). So comparison of the 620 and 661 is likely moot. It's possible that the 661 preamp is simply the 660 preamp (up to the ADC, of course). Some people have mentioned just sitting tight until there's actually one of these on the street (and someone gets a chance to poke around in its guts to see what's what). I think that's an extremely good idea. Or maybe you can call Marantz and talk them out of some information.
I personally chose an all-in-one box for the sake of convenience. I don't want to carry any more gear than is absolutely necessary to "get the job done". Einstein said it best: Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler. [or words to that effect]
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Yes, definitely there's no chance to know anything till it's out, and it's an advantage not having lots of things to carry around.
It's a a matter of money also. In italy Edirol costs 340 euros and pdm620 390, so I think this new Marantz will cost not less than 650/700 Euros.
An external phantom it's about 100 euros here, but I think without it not much can be done as in Italy there aren't so many self powered solutions. I have seen that Audio-technica has launched two new stereo mikes, and one of the two (AT8022) can be battery powered also.
I'm absolutely a newbie in technical aspects, but the frequency diagram (20-15 khz!!) shows an embarassing up and downhill, which I don't know if it's a prelude of a neutral sound.
we'll see.
thank you
c
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An external phantom it's about 100 euros here, but I think without it not much can be done as in Italy there aren't so many self powered solutions.
You need to learn to use eBay :) A (battery) phantom power supply should be 30-50 euros max.
digifish
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Whoa, now isn't this little guy interesting. I can't wait to hear what Doug thinks about mods when he gets his hands on one of these. ;D
Probably, something like, "I just hope they use a large chip solder pad (ssop-8) so I will have more choices when I do my thing to its analog section." ;)
<snip>
The Oade-modified PMD660 I owned for a while sounded great!
Flintstone
Yeah, I have heard some great recordings done with the mod'ed 660's. I have been using an Oade mod'ed 620 recently, and it sounds great too...Surprisingly so, even...
I can't wait to check out this new recorder, and I hope there is enough room under the hood for Oade and Busman to do their thing!
Incidentally, I have sent a few queries to Marantz and my local distributor to ask about some of the questions that have come up here (max file size/seamless splits, line2 use, bit-accuracy, etc.).
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So comparison of the 620 and 661 is likely moot. It's possible that the 661 preamp is simply the 660 preamp (up to the ADC, of course).
Yea, I'd probably have to agree with that. Since this thing looks like it's coming out near a $600 price point, my guess is that it'll lean more towards its predecessor and have innards something like the 660.
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i hear it may be a bit smaller than the 660 ;D
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i hear it may be a bit smaller than the 660 ;D
:lol:
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A little tidbit of additional information on this thing:
In regards to your question regarding the digital input of the new PMD661– I have been told by development that the recordings, made through the on-board S/PDIF input go directly to the card. No resampling, level adjustment, effects, or filter. Therefore, they claim the digital input to be bit accurate. What comes in, gets written to the card.
I know a few people were curious about that...
Also, some speculation from Doug Oade on some of the other questions we have been raising here:
I feel confident it will have the file management features of the 620...I suspect it uses an A/D chip with multiple inputs and the line in 2 will use one of them. many of these chips do have mixing capabilities built in but require the firmware to support this feature.
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Another thing I would like to know is if it has active electronics between the line input and the gain control. As many of us have learned, unlike the good old portable DATs of old like the D10, SV255, Portadat, DA-P1, etc. that had no pre-gain active electronics on the line stage, most of the file based recorders of today are cursed with this problem. Using a DA-P1, for example, you could feed it a line signal so hot that the gain was dialed down to "2", and as long as the meters did not peak into "over", there was no recorder overload distortion.
Unfortunately with most of today's flash recorders, this is not the case. A hot input, even with recording levels showing well below "0", you can end up with a distorted recording because the load on the active electronics before the gain control clipped them. If this unit does not have that problem and can accept any line signal no matter how hot, this will make it able to take a typically hot SBD feed without issue, and I would love that.
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Brad,
This puppy has a 2nd Line-In on the side, which should be dialed down. 1/8" but still.................. (shrugs)
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Brad,
This puppy has a 2nd Line-In on the side, which should be dialed down. 1/8" but still.................. (shrugs)
Actually, that is the feature that has me worried. With most flash recorders, when there are multiple analog input options, an electronic menu feature is employed and allows the user to select which input the recorder will "listen to". It's the action of toggling though a menu to select inputs that indicates an active circuit exists between the physical line input jack and the gain control knob.
I was hoping that the with the simple mechanical switch that moves the circuit between line and mic at the XLR input jacks, this would mean this recorder could take a line input signal so loud that you would have to dial the gain knob to "1" or "2", and as long as the digital levels don't show going "over", you can be confident no clipping whatsoever occured in the recorder. This is really needed with a very hot SBD feed that you cannot for whatever reason get the FOH engineer to turn down for you.
This will be a question Doug will be able to answer as soon as he gets the first batch and cracks into one.
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I've recorded with the Mic-In (1/8) on the Tascam DR-1 handheld, with a Hot SBD feed, and got great results. Granted the combo jacks are not the most efficient as far as db management and noise. But, the technology has gone 10-fold in just 3 years. I'm confident in this unit. It just raises the bar for the other mannys.
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Given that the product's been announced a few days ago, what will it be at your experience a reasonable time to wait before it will be available (in USA at least, since a few months gonna pass till we can have it in EU)?
thanks
c
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This looks great. I'd buy this just for the coax digi input.
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sweet looking recorder.
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updated today...January 2009 street date @ $599
http://www.prosoundweb.com/srlive/article/marantz_professional_debuts_pmd661_compact_digital_recorder/
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Here's a size comparison thing that compares the new PMD 661 to the PMD 620, Edirol R-09HR, Olympus LS-10 and Tascam DR-1.
I understand people looking for the 661 might not be looking at those other recorders, but someone might find it useful!
http://www.sizeasy.com/page/size_comparison/20215-PMD661-vs-Tascam-DR-1-vs-Olympus-LS-10-vs-R-09HR-vs-PMD620
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Good grief, what will they think of next (I mean the site devoted to comparing sizes)?! Very handy though, thanks for the link and input.
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Dear Carpa
In France it is advertised b to be available on January 15 for 599 euros...
http://www.playback.fr/marantz-pmd661-53440.html
Whether you want to be the first one on the block to have one - or to wait for some evaluations/field tests is another question ....
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Someone just created this one that might be more useful (has 660, 702, and Fostex FR2LE).
http://www.sizeasy.com/page/size_comparison/20269-Fostex-FR2LE-vs-Sound-Devices-702-vs-Marantz-PMD660-vs-Sony-PMD-D1-vs-Marantz-PMD661
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That would be me!
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The PMD661 users guide and other information is now available online.
http://www.d-mpro.com/users/folder.asp?FolderID=4405&CatID=18&SubCatID=169
Flintstone
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Can't wait to hear some sound samples of this puppy.
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here's an interesting part from page 26 of the manual:
With the Auto Track (Automatic Track incrementing) On, a new audio file is begun automatically at specifiec intervals of recording time. The Auto Track can be set to increment every 1, 5, 10, 15 or 30 minutes, or every 1, 2, 6, 8, 12, or 24 hours. The Auto Track makes finding a particular point in a recording easier....
The continuity of sound is not guaranteed and depends on the speed of a card or the file size.
Note:
New audio file starts automatically when the recorded file size reaches 4GB.
so it looks like it's got auto-split (either at a specified time interval or at 4GB), but they explicitly say that it's not guaranteed to be seamless. while that's not a good sign, perhaps it's just a disclaimer because not every card they tested is fast enough, or something like that. but out at a show, I like to be certain that an autosplit is seamless. I guess time will tell.
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The specs Marantz provides for the PMD661 are probably best interpreted
by comparison to other Marantz products:
S/N ratio, according to Marantz
PMD671 mic input 65 dB, line input 86 dB
PMD661 mic input 65 dB, line input 85 dB
PMD620 mic input 68 dB, line input 80 dB
PMD660 mic input 60 dB, line input 80 dB
Dynamic range, according to Marantz
PMD671 86 dB
PMD661 85 dB
PMD620 81 dB
PMD660 80 dB
From these figures, I'm hoping that the PMD661 will have sonic qualities close to the well-regarded PMD671. The online fact sheet says the PMD661 has ""upgraded mic preamps" and "exceptional onboard preamps." I guess we'll have to wait until January to find out!
Flintstone
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nice post flintstone!
I wonder what the specs are of oade/busman modded 660's are... The 661 looks promsing, stock.
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Thanks, flintstone! I was wondering when some more information was going to pop up on the Marantz site. I have been checking pretty frequently.
One thing I noticed is that it is made from ABS with a metal face plate. Should be pretty sturdy. And weighs in at less than a pound too...
Also, it doesn't look like an "on-the-fly" matrix, as discussed a few pages back, will be possible.
The file/menu structure looks almost identical to the 620's with the latest firmware upgrade. Simple and logical. In fact, the buttons, layout and appearance are all pretty similar to the 620. Sort of like the feature set of the 660 "hybridized" with the design features of the 620.
Now, all we have to do is hear it...
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sweetwater's website says that they expect to have the 661 in stock the week of Jan 4.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PMD661/ (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PMD661/)
retail price: $800
sweetwater is advertising it at $600
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Apparently they are now in stock @ Sweetwater and shipping.....
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While Sweetwater works with their M Pro partners to get an image of the PMD661 for buyers to view, here are some images and data specifications.
(http://www.sonicstudios.com/PMD661_Top_angle.jpg)
(http://www.sonicstudios.com/PMD661_back.jpg)
(http://www.sonicstudios.com/PMD661_front.jpg)
(http://www.sonicstudios.com/PMD661_LHside.jpg)
(http://www.sonicstudios.com/PMD661_RHside.jpg)
(http://www.sonicstudios.com/PMD661_SPEC1.gif)
(http://www.sonicstudios.com/PMD661_SPECS2.gif)
From the printed specifications and form factor of the new PMD661, might not expect much difference in performance quality over the 660, just enhanced ability for 24bit and 96K recording modes. Seems another ideal candidate for 'high snake oil' deck modification.
Split recording level knob is ideal for dual mono inputs, but works against keeping precise stereo input channel match.
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Split recording level knob is ideal for dual mono inputs, but works against keeping precise stereo input channel match.
Mics are dual mono sources, that create stereo imaging based on how they are arrayed, so how is the split knob a negative? I watch people trying to drop levels evenly holding separate L/R knobs and it's harder than having one knob to turn. Once you have the balance set, they are linked together when they are moved with one hand.
As far as "snake oil", if Doug can upgrade the op amps and caps to increase the headroom and lower the noise, we could get this unit with specs that exceed 16 bit. On paper, at line level the 661 is only 85 db dynamic range and .02% harmonic distortion, that is not even producing 16 bits of end product. The mic inputs are clearly needing upgrades, since they are spec'd far lower at 65 db dynamic range.
The specs have to be closer to 120 db dynamic range, and something like .008% harmonic distortion to exceed what the 660 can already give. I am hopeful that Doug can line mod this thing so we can run hot preamps into it without overloading any active electronics in the front end. Looking forward to hearing some feedback early in 2009.
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from Marantz tech suppport:
Hello Jason,
Thanks for your message.
It takes a very small amount of time for the PMD661 to end the recording
of one file and then start another. You may hear an extremely small gap
or nothing at all depending on the source signal. There is no way
around this but the gap due to processing and is very minimal and again,
may not be noticed at all.
If you feel that this may be an issue for your application, we recommend
testing out the unit at a local dealer before purchasing.
At this point, we recommend using Lexar and SanDisk SD or SDHC cards.
Best regards,
Technical Support
D&M Professional
for me, this is a big deal. when I brought up this possibility earlier, no one commented. I guess with 4GB, you could get 4 hours at 24/48 or 2 hours at 24/96 in a single file, and not have to worry about this. but I've been recording at 24/96 for a couple of years now, and would prefer not to drop back down to 48kHz. and I sometimes record sets that go more than 2 hours in length. it's too bad, it would have been nice to get a smaller deck, but not if it doesn't do what I need it to do.
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What's with all this snake oil stuff ???
Thee 660 needed a mod so we could use it without distorting and bricking.
The mod worked.... End of story.
Damn, some of you are bitter asses.
Someone should offer an attitude mod for you. ;D
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What's with all this snake oil stuff ???
Thee 660 needed a mod so we could use it without distorting and bricking.
The mod worked.... End of story.
Damn, some of you are bitter asses.
Someone should offer an attitude mod for you. ;D
Ignorance with a bad attitude is often not a pretty sight as your post demonstrates.
Suggest you do something about this, trying to do better next time by offering an apology for a totally inappropriate post after reading first part of this thread:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=0181d70481d3d3595fc10ab2ba8814d9&topic=109703.0;all
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I fail to see why anyone is getting upset about the term "snake oil" - in quotes - being used on the two occasions in this thread where it was first used.
In both cases, the use of quotes around the phrase clearly implies that what is meant is "so called snake oil".
In both cases, the context makes it perfectly clear that the comments come from people who consider that the suggested mods could improve the performance of the PMD 661 to a worthwhile degree.
So there's not the slightest reason for the thread to get derailed into argument and counter argument about either snakes or oil or both.
'Tis the season to be jolly, no? :)
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My bad mr. sonic. :-* :P
Read it wrong.
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I opened one up, it does use the same chips as the PMD 660 and FR2LE (JRC 2122) so I will be able to upgrade it any way I like. The OLED display is nice and easy to read but the LEDs are hard to see outdoors due to the angle so for reporters it can be a pain but for table top use it is fine. The really good news, they use a true high end pro digital input chip for the S/PDIF connector with a rock solid interface and very low jitter. It should be the bit bucket tapers have been waiting on !
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I opened one up, it does use the same chips as the PMD 660 and FR2LE (JRC 2122) so I will be able to upgrade it any way I like. The OLED display is nice and easy to read but the LEDs are hard to see outdoors due to the angle so for reporters it can be a pain but for table top use it is fine. The really good news, they use a true high end pro digital input chip for the S/PDIF connector with a rock solid interface and very low jitter. It should be the bit bucket tapers have been waiting on !
I still wonder if there are active electronics between the XLR line inputs and the gain control. It would really be nice if one of these recorder companies offered a unit with a straight path analog line stage like the good old DAP-1 and D10Pro, with hardware switched inputs instead of the i-pod like menu selection all the flash units are mostly using. It sucks to know that you could be recording with peak levels holding at -1, and end up with clips at the active inputs and not know it until later. I have first hand experience with that, and it sucks.
The standard "solution" offered is to drop the preamps down so the line level is lower into the recorder. However, transformer preamps perform best when the transformers are saturated, meaning a very hot line out to the recorder.
Oh, one day maybe...........
I will have to jingle Doug for some info on that.
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The specs of this new marantz tell: 65 db and 85db in terms of dynamic range for mic and line input; this is not such a brilliant performance, as some of you said.
I was wondering how this spec compares to other pocket recorders like Edirol R09HR or Tascam or Sony d-50.
Has any of you measured or has got the specs of these decks?
thank you
c
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Just to review:
It may be possible that this unit can do seemless splits recording 24/96 but it is definately not guaranteed at this time, correct?
I bought the MTII for this very purpose - to go digital in at 24/96 and have seemless splits. I have been eagerly watching this thread given that this unit uses SD with Coaxial Digital Input - 24/96. Another consideration is battery life, I don't want to have to use an external battery sled for fear of not being able to record the whole show as I do with the MTII.
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Just to review:
It may be possible that this unit can do seemless splits recording 24/96 but it is definately not guaranteed at this time, correct?
I bought the MTII for this very purpose - to go digital in at 24/96 and have seemless splits. I have been eagerly watching this thread given that this unit uses SD with Coaxial Digital Input - 24/96. Another consideration is battery life, I don't want to have to use an external battery sled for fear of not being able to record the whole show as I do with the MTII.
I'm pretty sure that it is not seamless splits. I've had a couple more back and forth emails with the Marantz tech people. After telling him that I was probably going to stick with my Tascam HD-P2 for now (because I absolutely need seamless splits). he sent me a couple of mp3 clips (which I haven't had the chance to listen to yet). Basically, he made a recording with the S/PDIF input. and after short inervals, used the manual "autotrack" to close the file and create a new one. He then put all these files together to form the first click. It's not seamless. though some of the flie-splits are "inaudible", while others you can hear a small "tick. Of course, "this all depends on the shape of the wave form at the split". He then send me a second clip, in which he used a pencil editing tool to get rid of the small ticks. In his opinion, now the file splits were all inaudible, so it didn't matter that the original split isn't quite seamless.
what this says to me is that it's almost seamless, but not quite. you probably won't notice it, and if you do, it can be masked pretty easily. Personally, I think I'm going to stick with the Tascam and true seamless splits.
of course, by comparison, the Fostex FR-2LE doesn't even automatically start a new file. with that deck, you hit 4GB and it stops. and plenty of people are happy with the Fostex. I think with 4GB as the file size limit (which it is for the PMD-661), its a reasonable deck if you are happy at 24/48 (or 24/44.1). then you've got 4 hours per file and don't have to worry about file splits anyway. but if you wan tto record at 24/96, you'll hit the 4gig mark after 2 hours, which I often go beyond in a single set.
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Bummer, looks like I am sticking with the MTII. The 661 is a nice looking box too, that's a shame.
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I've attached the two mp3 clips that the guy sent me, in case anyone else is interested. actually, it's better than I thought it would be, based on his description.
edit to add:
these mp3 clips were made using the S/PDIF input (because I told the tech guy that I was only interested in using the S/PDIF input). So these files are no indication of how the deck will actually sound.
edit again to add his exact email to me:
The file labeled 661_No_Edit.mp3 contains 5 files that have been placed
together in a playlist using Peak software. I basically recorded a
SPDIF signal into the PMD661 and pressed the manual track button 5 times
at approximately 10, 14, 19, 23, and 26 seconds. I then bounced it out
the playlist as one file. When listening to the file, you can hear
slight "pops" only at some points when I manually put new tracks in when
recording. Some points don't contain the "pop" at all. It really
depends on the audio signal.
The second file labeled PT-EDIT_2MIX.mp3 contains the same exact files
but has been brought into ProTools software. After performing minor
edits, the "pop" sounds are now gone.
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In the case of the R-44 you can use the pre-record facility* to give you an almost-seamless split at a point of your choice - as I recall it, something like 100th of a second is lost - which sounds like the 661 "autotrack" facility. So you pick a spot like applause and do your manual split there, where it won't show. Wouldn't that be sufficient in almost all real-world situations?
[*What you do is have prerecord on, press 'stop', press 'record', and the pre-record buffer takes over in the gap between you pressing stop and record, dumping the buffer onto the card at the point you press 'record'.]
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That's a good point, but I am in the Ron Popeil school of thought...."Set it and forget it".
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yes, realistically, it would not be hard to manually do this "autotrack" at some point within 2 hours (assuming 24/96) during a crowd noise section where it wouldn't be noticed. But I also like to "set it and forget it". call me lazy if you will, but let's also call Marantz lazy for not designing a seamless split in the first place.
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8) 8)
but let's also call Marantz lazy for not designing a seamless split in the first place.
or we could applaud marantz for breaking new ground on features and size... 8)
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Remember that the PMD661 has a 4 GB file size limit, not 2 GB like most pocket size recorders. That's 2 hours of recording at 24/96, or 4 hours at 24/48. If you need to record for longer, near the 4GB limit you push the "start a new track" button. From the files posted above, it seems that the new track starts with less than a second's delay.
I think the quality of the PMD661's preamp will be a bigger issue than the seamless split.
Flintstone
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Remember that the PMD661 has a 4 GB file size limit, not 2 GB like most pocket size recorders. That's 2 hours of recording at 24/96, or 4 hours at 24/48. If you need to record for longer, near the 4GB limit you push the "start a new track" button. From the files posted above, it seems that the new track starts with less than a second's delay.
I think the quality of the PMD661's preamp will be a bigger issue than the seamless split.
Flintstone
I realize that it's 4GB, I'm just pointing out the fact that it's not seamless. As far as what's a bigger issues, pre-amps or lack of seamless splits, it will all depend on how you are planning to use it. For people just looking for a small, reliable recorder with a S/PDIF input, the quality of the internal pre-amps means nothing.
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It's high time someone released a wavpack (or whatever) lossless recording portable to further extend the recording time available in a single file. There's no such animal is there??
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It's high time someone released a wavpack (or whatever) lossless recording portable to further extend the recording time available in a single file. There's no such animal is there??
the Sound Devices 7xx units can record straight to FLAC.
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It's high time someone released a wavpack (or whatever) lossless recording portable to further extend the recording time available in a single file. There's no such animal is there??
A rockboxed iRiver can do this, but only in 16 bit. And it offers seamless splits anyway.
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If it weren't for the iffy economy, I'd have bought a new recorder before I saw this thread. I'm really surprised they couldn't have pushed it out of the door before the Xmas shopping season though. Hopefully that indicates that the design/engineering/QC depts are more in charge than the marketing guys. This thing has everything I was looking for,.. please make it sound great!
Does anyone know if they're shipping yet?
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Does anyone know if they're shipping yet?
sweetwater's website says that they expect to have the 661 in stock the week of Jan 4.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PMD661/ (http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PMD661/)
retail price: $800
sweetwater is advertising it at $600
Apparently they are now in stock @ Sweetwater and shipping.....
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the Sound Devices 7xx units can record straight to FLAC.
Well there's a thing. Thanks for the info.
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Anyone good with interpreting published specs, please chime in.
For the XLR line input, it states input sensitivity of 0dBu/4.2kohms. Any idea if this measure would indicate the maximum line level input that this unit can take? Some recorders out there can take up to 20db input, and my pre can output 20 db max before clipping, so knowing the max line input level on the 661 is very key for me. Some recorders clip at the inputs well below 20db, which would rule them out for me.
Thanks in advance !!!
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That's a good point, but I am in the Ron Popeil school of thought...."Set it and forget it".
Did he invent Popeil's Pocket Fisherman by chance? :P
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I've been watching the Marantz site (http://www.d-mpro.com) for more information on the PMD-661 but I haven't been able to access the site for days. I can't imagine a company like Marantz going days with a site down.
Is anybody else experiencing this? If so..
Yo Marantz.... Your Site is Down!
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I've been wanting a new deck and the 660 was a candidate. Now, however, I may hit up this new-fangled 661.
Anyone got one in hand yet?
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Looks like review units are making it out in the wild. Here is a review I came across: http://www.wingfieldaudio.com/marantz-pmd661-review.html (http://www.wingfieldaudio.com/marantz-pmd661-review.html).
I am looking forward to hearing some member reviews.
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Looks like review units are making it out in the wild. Here is a review I came across: http://www.wingfieldaudio.com/marantz-pmd661-review.html (http://www.wingfieldaudio.com/marantz-pmd661-review.html).
"We achieved clear and clean results with every phantom-powered condenser microphone we tried (AKG C414, Rode NT1A, Rode NTG-2, Rode NT-4). Unfortunately, we acheived fairly noisy results with every dynamic mic we tried (Samson Q7, Heil Handi Mic Pro, Heil PR-20, Heil PR-35, Sennheiser MD421II)."
:hmmm: I wonder how their qualitative description of PMD660 performance compare, can't seem to find any reviews they did on it.
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See the PMD661 on Youtube, described by Marantz sales director:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mt4EcncKGlQ
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Thanks for that youtube link. That wide angle lens sure makes it look bigger. But when you compare his hands size with his head, the proportions become a little clearer. I'd love to see some size comparison photos to the D50 and 09hr before I buy.
Definitely the flash recorder to keep an eye on for me!
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^ The size of the unit has been published. If you check the history of this thread there was a link provided that compared the size of the 661 side by side with the R-09 I think.
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http://www.proacousticsusa.com/productdetail.php?pId=13862&gclid=CNuUot3Q5JcCFQhdswodiFOGDQ
sweeeeet
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As I've asked in another post (but maybe it's a little off-topic) I was wondering how the dynamic range specs (65 db mic input) of this new Marantz compare to other pocket recorders. In particular I didn't find any specification in edirol r09hr datasheet, or in the SOny pcm d-50, ehich id indicated by a lot of people as having between the best mic preamps in pocket recorders.
Do any of you know anything about it?
thank you
c
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That's a good point, but I am in the Ron Popeil school of thought...."Set it and forget it".
Did he invent Popeil's Pocket Fisherman by chance? :P
Yes, yes he did. He is Ronco.
For a list of all of his great inventions, check it out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Popeil
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It's difficult to compare published specifications like dynamic range and noise floor between manufacturers because you can get different numbers under different test conditions, and, frankly, the manufacturers lie about their products. Let me re-phrase that: Most manufacturers like to describe their products in the most favorable way possible, even though the results can't be duplicated in the real world.
I think it's possible to compare the PMD661 with other Marantz products, since it's likely they use the same test procedure across the product line. I did that in an earlier post in this thread. It looks to me like the PMD661 specs are closer to the PMD671 than to the PMD660, which would be a good thing.
That said, and despite Marantz claims that the preamps are greatly improved, I'm still not expecting miracles. Marantz's primary markets for these devices is ENG and recording voice for transcription (court depositions and the like). The level of quality required for these applications is not as demanding as recording music or nature.
Also, if the PMD661 performance were truly stellar, it would cut into the sales of the PMD671. Better to make a "semi-pro" box to sell at this lower price point.
We'll know the answer to the "how good does the PMD661 sound?" question in a couple of weeks.
Flintstone
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What flintstone said. Also, mike preamps vary greatly in how strong a signal they can take from a microphone before their input circuits overload. Furthermore, any one mike preamp will generally get very different noise figures at different gain settings. Spec sheets generally list only the best single figure that the preamp is capable of getting, which is often at a higher gain setting than most of us would probably use.
Finally, just knowing the raw level of noise in a preamp doesn't tell you how likely that noise is to be audible, since audibility depends not only on the level but also on the frequency spectrum (distribution) of the noise and its properties in the time domain (is it mainly steady noise, or is it full of impulses? The latter can be heard at much lower average levels).
All in all, most specification sheets for mike preamps just don't tell you very much of what you'd most likely want to know. The spec sheets for mixers and recorders that contain mike preamps are worse yet, since the mike preamps are only a fraction of what the manufacturer is trying to sell you.
I'm interested in this recorder, but if it's going to be anything more than a bit bucket, I'll need to know more about its mike preamps. The sensitivity figure given in the spec sheet for its mike inputs is rather high--it seems as if this unit was designed to be suitable for use with dynamic microphones or low-output, consumer-type electret condensers rather than the professional condenser microphones that I and a lot of other people here use. But if the preamps also have high input headroom (if they can handle, say, half a Volt or thereabouts without distorting), then they could be very useful. I guess we'll see.
--best regards
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I've been watching the Marantz site (http://www.d-mpro.com) for more information on the PMD-661 but I haven't been able to access the site for days. I can't imagine a company like Marantz going days with a site down.
Crazy, is this intermittent? Otherwise it's been down for a week now! Christmas break?
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odd. Pinging it works just fine.
www.thewebsiteisdown.com
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Till then...:
http://www.d-mpro.eu.com/index2.php
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I've been watching the Marantz site (http://www.d-mpro.com) for more information on the PMD-661 but I haven't been able to access the site for days. I can't imagine a company like Marantz going days with a site down.
Crazy, is this intermittent? Otherwise it's been down for a week now! Christmas break?
Sunjan,
They have been up since then, but I often find their site randomly down. Maybe they will make enough money off the PMD661 that they can get a reliable web server and/or a sharper webmaster... ;D
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Here is at least a hint as to how this thing sounds (plus a few comments on build quality and potential mods):
It does not sound as good as the Fostex FR2LE, it sounds like a PMD 660. No surprise as they designed it in much the same way but with 3 gain settings. Build quality is good, what one would expect from a Japan based factory. It will be sometime early next year before I work out any MODs. Too many new designs have problems and once I modify it I am responsible for the warranty. I have learned to be patient ! I think I will be able to get it to sound very good as there is plenty of room to work with. I will start working out MODs in January and hope to start shipping them late February or early March.
He also said that, with respect to the A/D, he "did look at chip numbers but did not ID anything as an A/D so I am assuming it is a new design."
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I've been watching the Marantz site (http://www.d-mpro.com) for more information on the PMD-661 but I haven't been able to access the site for days. I can't imagine a company like Marantz going days with a site down.
Crazy, is this intermittent? Otherwise it's been down for a week now! Christmas break?
Sunjan,
They have been up since then, but I often find their site randomly down. Maybe they will make enough money off the PMD661 that they can get a reliable web server and/or a sharper webmaster... ;D
Try changing DNS - when I use the DNS supplied by my ISP it's down; when I change to OpenDNS (http://www.opendns.com/) it works.
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According to Sweetwater and BSW this puppy is shipping. Anybody got their hands on one yet? I am ready to "pull the trigger" on this recorder but would love to hear some feedback first.
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B&H Photo Video shows the PMD661 is "in stock" this evening.
The price in USA is $600.
Flintstone
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I bet this will be 600 Euro when it's available in Europe. ::)
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I bet this will be 600 Euro when it's available in Europe. ::)
Yep. For example, I paid 588 Euro for my D50. Where is the deflation they all promised? >:D
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549.00 with a free 8bg sd card and free shipping on ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370142544006&fromMakeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:us
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First sighting in the wild??
"I received a PMD661 this morning. It's a handsome, businesslike box...... I'll report on preamp performance tomorrow."
That's on the Naturerecordists discussion group - where their interests are different from most here, but low noise performance is of particular interest to them.
Let's see what tomorrow brings.
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http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/naturerecordists/message/35895
"Conclusion:
The Marantz PMD661 is a well built, flexible device that would be a
good choice as a general purpose recorder in the $600 price range.
Audio preamp performance is very good. The ability to provide mics
with 48V phantom power is most welcome. If you can live with a
battery life of 3 hours, then the PMD661 would be a great choice."
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three hours, ouch.
wonder in rechargables would be better, if not exeernal will be a must
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http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/naturerecordists/message/35895
If the menu feature is similar to the 660, the software menus are straight forward and easy to learn. That should not be a deal breaker.
The mods will be the decider for me.
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three hours, ouch.
wonder in rechargables would be better, if not exeernal will be a must
e2 lithiums should yield closer to 5 hrs. i wouldn't worry.
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Folks, I just got this info from a retailer that has been testing these, and I found out the thing I needed to know to make me move, and I am going to go for it soon.
"They will take a very hot signal on the XLR line in so you do not have to worry about overload. It will take more signal than most unbalanced inputs as it is a true pro XLR line in."
This means it's set for the +4 pro line standard, not the -10 consumer line standard.
Right On !!!!!
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And you can set the Mic Attenuation at 0db, -6db, -12db, or -18db.
I now have one of these units but I am not qualified to do a review at the level of this forum would expect.
I podcast with it using a Sennheiser HMD25XQ headset mic which is a lot different than most in this forum would use the unit. This headset is designed for broadcasting from relatively noisy areas and I like this setup because I can lay down a spoken word recording and not worry so much about ambient noise or staying on the mic as I look at papers and my monitor.
The unit sounds good to me and it was fairly easy to learn the controls. I can say that the built is awesome. It does not feel like a toy in your hand. There is no perception that anything of the unit is made of plastic. You can grab both ends and give it a twist and there is no flexing or plastic squeaking sound.
If you have any specific questions about the PMD661 I can try and answer them. Like I said I am not in the position to make expert commentary of the recording quality.
Grant
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Tagging this thread for interest, especially if any analog mods come to town that improve the mic in sound.
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http://www.oade.com/digital_recorders/hard_disc_recorders/PMD-661MODS.html
661 mod is up.
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.
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http://www.oade.com/digital_recorders/hard_disc_recorders/PMD-661MODS.html
661 mod is up.
at this time, it's just the concert mod. I am guessing that the upgrade not yet announced will be more geared for nature recordists or other users who require low-noise with more gain.
The Marantz PMD 661 Concert MOD upgrade rebuilds the mic preamps using high speed, low noise and very low distortion op amps that dramatically improve fine detail and clarity. Components are selected by ear to optimize detail and imaging for recording all types of music.
More Upgrades To Be Announced !
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I saw one of these in action last night. It's a little bigger than I envisioned it being. I think someone said it was close to the size of a vhs tape, that's a good description, but maybe just a little smaller. It looked nice and the meters are sweet. My Sony D50 is definitely smaller.
FWIW, he had a buffer overrun/fail halfway through the first set and had to restart the recording and lost a minute or so. Not sure what was up with that. He did get 3 out of 4 sets recorded fine and I think he was using a Transcend 4gb card.
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reads to me like they will mod any deck thats a 661 no matter where you got it
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reads to me like they will mod any deck thats a 661 no matter where you got it
Perhaps just added:
We do NOT service decks that were not sold by Oade Brothers Audio, any deck sent in for an upgrade MUST be in good working order or it is not eligible for upgrades.
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reads to me like they will mod any deck thats a 661 no matter where you got it
Perhaps just added:
We do NOT service decks that were not sold by Oade Brothers Audio, any deck sent in for an upgrade MUST be in good working order or it is not eligible for upgrades.
All other 660 MODS are available only on machines we sell, sorry but no exceptions
That is what it sounds like, i wonder what's different about the 661 that they would accept decks bought elsewhere, will be interesting to see what the pricing is just for the mod.
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that was the case with the 660 at first as well. I never did understand why they were offering the BCM on non Oade boxes...
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I'm pretty sure Doug for quite a while has done his "Basic" mod for any machine, however if you want more than the 'basic' mod then your machine better have been bought from him. I had the basic mod done on my 671 by Doug, cause I couldn't justify the difference in price to buy it from him.
When i got my 671, Oade Bros were selling the 671 with basic mod for (I believe $1199). At the time I bought mine for $699 in 1/2007 and paid $150 for the basic mod. It was pure economics for me, I couldn't justify paying the extra $. At that time most other resellers had the unit for $999, seemed I just found a good deal.
According to OADE's site looks like he's now opened up the 671 for Advanced MOD for any unit
"We are now offering our Advanced MOD for any PMD671."
http://www.oade.com/digital_recorders/hard_disc_recorders/PMD-671MODS.html (http://www.oade.com/digital_recorders/hard_disc_recorders/PMD-671MODS.html)
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wow, only 650 for the concert mod? i figured it would be closer to 750. i wonder if there will be an ACM.
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ordered
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ordered
well hot damn!
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ordered
basic mod or stock? did you ask about an ACM?
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mod...he mentioned it was the same kind/style mod that is in the R44. I was looking for an older msg from him stating that there would be a concert and super mods.
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If you have any specific questions about the PMD661 I can try and answer them. Like I said I am not in the position to make expert commentary of the recording quality.
Grant
Any word on the battery life, Grant? In an earlier post in this thread, someone quoted a message from another board saying three hours. Is that the sort of run-time you are getting also?
ordered
Nice! I am eagerly awaiting your impressions (and maybe some samples?)!
I would love to get one, but Doug doesn't ship overseas, so I will have to make any order coincide with my next trip home, which will probably not be before the summer...
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here is some info that I got from Doug, regarding his PMD-661 concord mod. I had asked him how it compares against the V3, and how the deck might perform when recording unamplified acoustic music. I found this email to be helpful, and I thought others might as well.
The PMD 661 Concert MOD maxes out at about 53dB of gain and it will not be as quiet as the V3 at that gain level. No deck I know of will be ! On the other hand the PMD 661s A/D chip does not need as much level as the V3s A/D chip so you will not need to add as much gain with the 661. I find the PMD 661 needs about 40 dB of gain for most acoustic music, about 45dB for a solo vocalist. The sound will be close to that of the FR2LE HD MOD as they both use the same preamp chips. All the features remain intact with the PMD 661 upgrade.
I find Doug's opinion useful, though of course it doesn't replace hearing one in action. but it's likely that I'll be buying one of these in a few weeks, after I sell some of my current gear.
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Sobel, I'll race you!
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Me too, I have been semi-retired from taping a few years. My previous rig was Schoeps CMC6/MK4 > DMIC-20 > D8. I've have been waiting to move to an all-in-one and now I'm ready to pull the trigger.
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here is some info that I got from Doug, regarding his PMD-661 concord mod. I had asked him how it compares against the V3, and how the deck might perform when recording unamplified acoustic music. I found this email to be helpful, and I thought others might as well.
The PMD 661 Concert MOD maxes out at about 53dB of gain and it will not be as quiet as the V3 at that gain level. No deck I know of will be ! On the other hand the PMD 661s A/D chip does not need as much level as the V3s A/D chip so you will not need to add as much gain with the 661. I find the PMD 661 needs about 40 dB of gain for most acoustic music, about 45dB for a solo vocalist. The sound will be close to that of the FR2LE HD MOD as they both use the same preamp chips. All the features remain intact with the PMD 661 upgrade.
I find Doug's opinion useful, though of course it doesn't replace hearing one in action. but it's likely that I'll be buying one of these in a few weeks, after I sell some of my current gear.
very close to a response i was looking for.
thanks for sharing.
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(http://the-home-team.org/other/r4661_1.JPG)
(http://the-home-team.org/other/r4661_2.JPG)
...size comparison. Real world batt test tomorrow morning...
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Damn that's tiny. Thanks for the pics. +T
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Pretty cool.
Bring on the tests! ^-^
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what's the voltage needed to run the deck? can you read it on the external
dc plug in? can u read it on the bottom by the battery door? surprised no one has asked this yet.
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You can find the information about the power supply in the 661 manual.
The AC power adapter is the DA620PMD. It produces 5V DC, 1.5 A.
Flintstone
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Using Duracell 2650mah rechargeables, 48Vph on, all meters and displays on, set at 24/44. I will report back with runtime...
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...it ran out when I left to go pick up my Son from school. I have two wave files...
3,906,249 KB
263,740 KB
...someone wanna do the math to figure out the runtime? I am now taking the boy out for a bike ride in the park. Oh, it seems as if it closed out the last file with no problems and the transfer time on the files is 30 mins...I had to do it in windows as it hung up on my Mac. I'll check that out later...
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...it ran out when I left to go pick up my Son from school. I have two wave files...
3,906,249 KB
263,740 KB
...someone wanna do the math to figure out the runtime?
at 24/44.1, it's about 1 hour per gig. you've got ~4GB of recorded files, so that's about 4 hours of run time.
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What mics did you use? The Soundfield SPS200 in your signature is
a four channel surround sound mic, normally plugged into a computer.
Flintstone
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...or the Nevatons, which I seem to recall are pretty hungry? Maybe better run-time with a lower draw mic? In any event, four+ hours works for me.
How's it sound?
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Nevatons...and yes I cannot transfer files from 661 to Mac OS 10.5.6 but can under XP SP3. Under Mac I drag and drop with no transfer notice and am left with a 0kb file on my desktop.
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Hi All - first post.
Raimund Specht has placed figures for the 661 preamp noise on his Avisoft web site
http://www.avisoft.com/recordertests.htm
Cheers - TomR
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Thanks, TomR! The PMD661 test results are similar to the Marantz PMD671,
and quite a bit better than the PMD660. Good news!
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hmmm, why no mac drag and drop? that is one of the best features of my 660!
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hmmm, why no mac drag and drop? that is one of the best features of my 660!
Ok, to update that...I dragged the file over again last night and 18 minutes later (yes 18) it started to copy. I sent this info to Marantz...
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you've got ~4GB of recorded files, so that's about 4 hours of run time.
4 hours sounds pretty decent. Enough for an opener and main act, although 5 hours would be perfect IMO.
How does the unmodded 661 sound btw?
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New mod on the Oade site:
The Marantz PMD 661 Super MOD upgrade rebuilds the XLR inputs using very high speed, very low noise and super low distortion op amps that dramatically improve low level detail and clarity. Input capacitors are also upgraded. Components are selected by ear to optimize detail and low level resolution. Super low THD+N op amps allow for a very wide SFDR even with signal levels down 50dB. This preserves the signal quality of the highest grade microphones when recording soft signals, like voice, un amplified music, nature sounds and FX.
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New mod on the Oade site:
The Marantz PMD 661 Super MOD upgrade rebuilds the XLR inputs using very high speed, very low noise and super low distortion op amps that dramatically improve low level detail and clarity. Input capacitors are also upgraded. Components are selected by ear to optimize detail and low level resolution. Super low THD+N op amps allow for a very wide SFDR even with signal levels down 50dB. This preserves the signal quality of the highest grade microphones when recording soft signals, like voice, un amplified music, nature sounds and FX.
Interesting that both the super and concert mods are $650 with ground shipping. I'm not clear what the difference is though:
The Marantz PMD 661 Concert MOD upgrade rebuilds the XLR inputs using high speed, low noise and very low distortion op amps that dramatically improve fine detail and clarity. The result is a very detailed, open 3D soundstage. Input capacitors are also upgraded. Components are selected by ear to optimize detail and imaging for recording all types of music.
The Marantz PMD 661 Super MOD upgrade rebuilds the XLR inputs using very high speed, very low noise and super low distortion op amps that dramatically improve low level detail and clarity. Input capacitors are also upgraded. Components are selected by ear to optimize detail and low level resolution. Super low THD+N op amps allow for a very wide SFDR even with signal levels down 50dB. This preserves the signal quality of the highest grade microphones when recording soft signals, like voice, un amplified music, nature sounds and FX.
Nice price though... very tempting.
edit: oh is it the 'low' versus 'very low' in the concert versus the super mod?
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Super low THD+N
Well that's something that should be measurable in comparison to the original, any charts/data?
digifish
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Yeh, I would like to see how these run stock, the mic in on the 620 is very good and if the 661 is at least that good, no mod needed IMO, especially for louder rock like shows, and i think i saw somewhere the pre amps are vastly superior to the 660 which is why those were so popularly modded
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I might as well add myself to this thread. ;) >:D
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New mod on the Oade site:
The Marantz PMD 661 Super MOD upgrade rebuilds the XLR inputs using very high speed, very low noise and super low distortion op amps that dramatically improve low level detail and clarity. Input capacitors are also upgraded. Components are selected by ear to optimize detail and low level resolution. Super low THD+N op amps allow for a very wide SFDR even with signal levels down 50dB. This preserves the signal quality of the highest grade microphones when recording soft signals, like voice, un amplified music, nature sounds and FX.
Interesting that both the super and concert mods are $650 with ground shipping. I'm not clear what the difference is though:
The Marantz PMD 661 Concert MOD upgrade rebuilds the XLR inputs using high speed, low noise and very low distortion op amps that dramatically improve fine detail and clarity. The result is a very detailed, open 3D soundstage. Input capacitors are also upgraded. Components are selected by ear to optimize detail and imaging for recording all types of music.
The Marantz PMD 661 Super MOD upgrade rebuilds the XLR inputs using very high speed, very low noise and super low distortion op amps that dramatically improve low level detail and clarity. Input capacitors are also upgraded. Components are selected by ear to optimize detail and low level resolution. Super low THD+N op amps allow for a very wide SFDR even with signal levels down 50dB. This preserves the signal quality of the highest grade microphones when recording soft signals, like voice, un amplified music, nature sounds and FX.
Nice price though... very tempting.
edit: oh is it the 'low' versus 'very low' in the concert versus the super mod?
Don't all of his mods basically say the same thing? "Very low noise and super low distortion op amps"...
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I'm a very satisfied customer of Mr. Oade, but I would still love to hear (or hear about!) one of these things stock.
These folks (with a little different emphasis than this forum) seem to compare it well with the PMD671. I'm not sure if these links have shown up here yet (maybe they have!).
http://avisoft.com/tutorial_field_recording.htm
http://avisoft.com/recordertests.htm
[ok, I see the same link from Tom R. a day or two ago]
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New mod on the Oade site:
The Marantz PMD 661 Super MOD upgrade rebuilds the XLR inputs using very high speed, very low noise and super low distortion op amps that dramatically improve low level detail and clarity. Input capacitors are also upgraded. Components are selected by ear to optimize detail and low level resolution. Super low THD+N op amps allow for a very wide SFDR even with signal levels down 50dB. This preserves the signal quality of the highest grade microphones when recording soft signals, like voice, un amplified music, nature sounds and FX.
Interesting that both the super and concert mods are $650 with ground shipping. I'm not clear what the difference is though:
The Marantz PMD 661 Concert MOD upgrade rebuilds the XLR inputs using high speed, low noise and very low distortion op amps that dramatically improve fine detail and clarity. The result is a very detailed, open 3D soundstage. Input capacitors are also upgraded. Components are selected by ear to optimize detail and imaging for recording all types of music.
The Marantz PMD 661 Super MOD upgrade rebuilds the XLR inputs using very high speed, very low noise and super low distortion op amps that dramatically improve low level detail and clarity. Input capacitors are also upgraded. Components are selected by ear to optimize detail and low level resolution. Super low THD+N op amps allow for a very wide SFDR even with signal levels down 50dB. This preserves the signal quality of the highest grade microphones when recording soft signals, like voice, un amplified music, nature sounds and FX.
Nice price though... very tempting.
edit: oh is it the 'low' versus 'very low' in the concert versus the super mod?
Don't all of his mods basically say the same thing? "Very low noise and super low distortion op amps"...
My interpretation, also considering what Doug has done with other units, is the super mod is for recording very soft level sources like nature sounds needing high gain and low noise, and the concert mod obviously for loud sources requiring less gain. The op amps for each could be different, where in the super mod they are lower noise at high gain, but may not be as ideal for high input level, low gain applications, and the reverse with the concert mod. The lower THD improvement could be equal in both mods.
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How's it sound?
:-*
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How's it sound?
:-*
CM or Stock?
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Super Mod is for nature dudes. Doug has a huge following in the nature field too. Those guys are even more anal than we are.
Concert mod is the way to go. :coolguy:
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How's it sound?
:-*
CM or Stock?
id be interested in hearing both right now. wonder if it will be able to stand up to a stock fr2le?
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id be interested in hearing both right now.
Me too. Hoping someone will have something for us to listen to soon... Nothing on LMA yet. :P
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I am thinking the concert mod is going to be the way to go, without even bothering with comparisons. Upgrades to better op amps and input capacitors will improve the sound the same way it did on the 671 and 660, and I have never heard anyone claim that they did not hear an improvement with that mod over the stock units.
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I am thinking the concert mod is going to be the way to go, without even bothering with comparisons. Upgrades to better op amps and input capacitors will improve the sound the same way it did on the 671 and 660, and I have never heard anyone claim that they did not hear an improvement with that mod over the stock units.
no contest! the stock 660 is almost unusable to those of us that record anything acoustic. After the mod it is one of the best (if not the best) 16 bit all in one ever.
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There's no question the 660 mods from Doug solved a serious problem with the stock unit.
So far I've read lots of talk here about mods to the 661, but not a lot of talk about the problems that need solving.
I have no doubt Doug does good things. I still want to hear a stock 661 first.
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There's no question the 660 mods from Doug solved a serious problem with the stock unit.
So far I've read lots of talk here about mods to the 661, but not a lot of talk about the problems that need solving.
I have no doubt Doug does good things. I still want to hear a stock 661 first.
Look at the published specs for the stock 661. A 16 bit SBM-1 has better dynamic range and THD figures. These specs are based on the analog signal path, and prevent the 24 bit AD from receiving a signal that is even just a little better than 16 bit. Since manufacturers have to make a unit that is "all things to all users" essentially, they have to compromise between the needs of different users, and make something that covers as many bases as possible. This leads to a final result that is not optimal.
Doug chooses op amps and input capacitors for his concert mods that are best for high input/low gain applications, the same way as he chooses different ones for low input/high gain applications in the super mod. I am not a blind follower and have never owned a unit modded by Doug, but I have been dealing with the Oade brothers now for almost 20 years and I spent plenty of money at HiFi Sales with 100% satisfaction, and I taped with Doug at a bunch of shows in the early '90s and learned alot about gear from him.
As much as I feel the mod is the way to go, I personally would like to hear a comp of the XLR set to "line in" between the stock and modded unit, just to see what improvement level there is and if it's worth $50, but I know for sure that if I was running mics directly in, I would not even bother with a stock unit, concert mod all the way.
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I just placed my order for the Concert Mod.
Here is a quick question. Do you think I will need to run the pad as everyone does with the PMD660?
If so which one?
I am very psyched to be getting back in the game. My previous rig was into a dmic-20 > D8.
I'm looking forward to hearing how this baby sounds....
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I just placed my order for the Concert Mod.
Here is a quick question. Do you think I will need to run the pad as everyone does with the PMD660?
If so which one?
I am very psyched to be getting back in the game. My previous rig was into a dmic-20 > D8.
I'm looking forward to hearing how this baby sounds....
Cool, please post some samples when you get a chance. Very curious how the concert mod 661 sounds with the MK4s without a pre inbetween.
btw, what's the 'pad' all about?
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I just placed my order for the Concert Mod.
Here is a quick question. Do you think I will need to run the pad as everyone does with the PMD660?
If so which one?
I am very psyched to be getting back in the game. My previous rig was into a dmic-20 > D8.
I'm looking forward to hearing how this baby sounds....
ask Doug about running the pad. i bet he says yes for rock music.
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MK4>661 is gonna smoke.
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MK4>661 is gonna smoke.
mk4>acm660 sure did.
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how many folks are actually running these ?
either stock or modded?
any samples
or dare I say .... opinions?
looks like a damn nice 24 bit unit and small with phantom XLR's - yesssss
peace -- Ian
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(http://the-home-team.org/other/r4661_1.JPG)
(http://the-home-team.org/other/r4661_2.JPG)
...size comparison. Real world batt test tomorrow morning...
J.T.L.
thanx
for the size comp n pics
-- Ian
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damn i'm itchin on this unit! just plug the bodies > kc5 and roll, hmmmm.
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Note that the new PMD661 has a S/PDIF input. That means that its front-end performance can be upgraded by using our Mic2496 V2 mic-pre/ADC and other external 24-bit units like the Grace Lunatec V3.
www.core-sound.com/Mic2496/1.php
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Note that the new PMD661 has a S/PDIF input. That means that its front-end performance can be upgraded by using our Mic2496 V2 mic-pre/ADC.
www.core-sound.com/Mic2496/1.php
As well as numerous other preamplifiers, a/d converters and combo preamp/ad converters on the market today.
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The YS is a sea of beyond affordable pre/ad combos right now so don't limit yourselves.
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Note that the new PMD661 has a S/PDIF input. That means that its front-end performance can be upgraded by using our Mic2496 V2 mic-pre/ADC.
www.core-sound.com/Mic2496/1.php
Shouldn't this be moved to the "Retail Space" forum? FWIW, I have never been impressed with Len's gear.
-Noah
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Len's gear is decent. You get what you pay for. It is his sales techniques that are questionable...
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I'll give Len a chance. Having bought /used his mics yrs ago with Sony DATs for voice recording at Bell Labs. Also met at AES. Len is a staight shooter AFAIK.
KT
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I ran mine (oade cm) for the first time in a live setting Saturday night. The metering is great, both on the LEDs and on the backlit screen. Them seem to be very much in-synch during the transients. The screen is very bright but can be adjusted slightly. I couldn't figure out if the screen is able to be turned off during recording or not. The KEY LOCK works just fine. I tried pushing just about every button while recording and it didn't respond. During REC PAUSE, the unit will not turn off (dunno how/why I tried that one). I like the rubber buttons. The unit feels very durable. I did not run the built-in "mic attenuation". The unit doesn't appear the save the file it's recording if the batteries die.
The setup/location/bar-sound are all questionable so I'm hesitant to post the 1st sample of this box from the other night. JTL, I will probably be in touch via PM later to discuss some stuff.
I have high hopes for this box, and plan on taking to Hampton. Whether or not it gets ran is another story. :)
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have high hopes for this box, and plan on taking to Hampton. Whether or not it gets ran is another story. :)
fob ;D
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The unit doesn't appear the save the file it's recording if the batteries die.
Please see if you can test this at home for us and confirm. The 670 and 671 will both save the file being recorded if the batteries fail, so if the 661 does not, that would be bad, and also strange for them to drop such a key feature on the 661. It would be a big deal breaker IMO.
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The unit doesn't appear the save the file it's recording if the batteries die.
Please see if you can test this at home for us and confirm. The 670 and 671 will both save the file being recorded if the batteries fail, so if the 661 does not, that would be bad, and also strange for them to drop such a key feature on the 661. It would be a big deal breaker IMO.
The 660 does not either.
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I ram mine till it died and saved all the files fine...double checked to make sure. It was the first thing I did with it...
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I ram mine till it died and saved all the files fine...double checked to make sure. It was the first thing I did with it...
Whew!!!
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my 660 saves the file before it shuts down. I sometimes forget to hit stop after the show (just shove the mics and cables in the bag and boogie home...)
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Hmm....I need to run more tests. In my initial test at home and I swear I remember the files not being there once the batteries died. I was focusing more so on the amount of recording I was getting, though.
...will report back soon.
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I'll have to recheck. I coulda swore mine didn't...
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I'll have to recheck. I coulda swore mine didn't...
Mine didn't last night :P
My external batts export pin broke.
Trying a recovery program right now for it.
Got all of the first set MMW acoustic NYC and that came out absolutely heat.
It has the file on it but with 0 bytes.
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Hmm....I need to run more tests. In my initial test at home and I swear I remember the files not being there once the batteries died. I was focusing more so on the amount of recording I was getting, though.
...will report back soon.
The easiest test would be to simply pop out the internal batteries while it's recording, same difference. If it's made like the 670 and 671, it should close the file right at the point the batteries were removed every time.
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The easiest test would be to simply pop out the internal batteries while it's recording, same difference. If it's made like the 670 and 671, it should close the file right at the point the batteries were removed every time.
That test isn't going to cut it on the 660 series. The 660 starts the file saving process when the battery meter gets to a certain point. It leaves just enough room on the battery to safely save the file. If you just rip the batteries out than it certainly won't have any power to save the file.
Also, to the person that has a saved file with zero byte, it might just be the wav header that is damaged. Try a wave header repair utility directly to the file on the original memory card....
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Seems like a few tapers have their hands on the 661... wondering when we'll start to see recordings up on LMA, BT, etc. :P
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The easiest test would be to simply pop out the internal batteries while it's recording, same difference. If it's made like the 670 and 671, it should close the file right at the point the batteries were removed every time.
That test isn't going to cut it on the 660 series. The 660 starts the file saving process when the battery meter gets to a certain point. It leaves just enough room on the battery to safely save the file. If you just rip the batteries out than it certainly won't have any power to save the file.
Also, to the person that has a saved file with zero byte, it might just be the wav header that is damaged. Try a wave header repair utility directly to the file on the original memory card....
I know the 670/671 series does this also, but the strange thing is I have pulled the battery sled right out of my 670 while recording which abruptly killed all power to the unit, and the file was still written and closed properly. I wonder if and external being disconnected by accident without batteries will result in a file that is not closed. That would make me steer towards only using internals. If you can get 5 hours with a set of 4 AAs, I don't see the value with an external battery. It's just one more box to lug around.
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FYI,
There's a post on the Yahoo Nature Recordists group doing the "Tic Toc" test comparing the 661, LS-10, and the MZ-RH1.
""I don't think a lot can be deduced from this until the levels have
been equalised. However, the Marantz 661 seems to be good.""
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I'm running more tests at home right now. I want to confirm the file-saving/powering-down discrepancy. I also received a PP-99 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Digital-Concepts-Universal-Portable-Power-Pack-PP-99_W0QQitemZ220360151865QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20090212?IMSfp=TL090212124010r6361) in the mail today. It's currently charging but I hope to have some info on run-times with it as well (vs. internals) here soon. The PP-99 is 4000mah, btw.
I stated before that the unit will not power down during REC PAUSE. The same goes for RECording as well.
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Ok, so I ran the rest of the life out of the alkalines I had from Saturday night. The file saved successfully and shows as 726mb, not 0mb. :)
edit-
I also noticed that, when creating a new track while recording, the transition to the new file is audibly seamless (no pops/clicks/silence).
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Great! Thanks for confirming this for everyone.
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not sure, just guess, but if the unit has internal battery meter that shows life left on the display, like my fostex has, then the unit knows it is about to shut off and saves the file?
if it is being power externally and the power dies suddenly, will it save a file?
Just a thought if using and external source to power it
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if it is being power externally and the power dies suddenly, will it save a file?
Just a thought if using and external source to power it
This is what I was referring to above with my 660.
It didn't save the file because it was externally powered.
The deck wouldn't have known my external was about to cut out.
Hope that's not the case with the 661.
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The power cuts abruptly when the external power is pulled. I highly doubt the file is saved, but have not confirmed this yet. I'll try it out tonight or this weekend.
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it's too bad that Marantz hasn't implemented something like the Tascam HD-P2 feature, where the recorded file is continously saved/closed/re-opened every 1.5 seconds. So if power (external or internal) suddenly cuts out, you'll never lose more than 1.5 seconds worth of the recording. It seems to me that that would be a better implementation rather than just saving the file when the internal battery power gets low.
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The power cuts abruptly when the external power is pulled. I highly doubt the file is saved, but have not confirmed this yet. I'll try it out tonight or this weekend.
Excellent.
Thanks mang!
I will probably get one of these once more questions and anwers come about.
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Wow, just read almost every page in this thread. I had no idea this existed until now. I am seriously thinking about ditching my PS-2 / R-09HR and switching to this all in one box.
(I realize this adds nothing to the thread, but I just can't believe how versatile and compact this thing is.)
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Wow, just read almost every page in this thread. I had no idea this existed until now. I am seriously thinking about ditching my PS-2 / R-09HR and switching to this all in one box.
(I realize this adds nothing to the thread, but I just can't believe how versatile and compact this thing is.)
Really? I just used my PS-2/R-09HR combo tonight and it sounds freakin' sweet!
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Wow, just read almost every page in this thread. I had no idea this existed until now. I am seriously thinking about ditching my PS-2 / R-09HR and switching to this all in one box.
(I realize this adds nothing to the thread, but I just can't believe how versatile and compact this thing is.)
Really? I just used my PS-2/R-09HR combo tonight and it sounds freakin' sweet!
Don't get me wrong, I love how the PS-2>R-09HR sounds, but often than not the problem I have is that the mic input is too sensitive while the line in doesn't supply enough gain. So I was thinking about putting the Sound Devices MixPre in front of it, but at that price point, I could get this instead as an "all in one box".
You ran your Schoeps mics/bodies with a PS-2? Interesting, I've never heard a tape with that set-up before, but I bet it sounds killer. 8)
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Don't get me wrong, I love how the PS-2>R-09HR sounds, but often than not the problem I have is that the mic input is too sensitive while the line in doesn't supply enough gain. So I was thinking about putting the Sound Devices MixPre in front of it, but at that price point, I could get this instead as an "all in one box".
You ran your Schoeps mics/bodies with a PS-2? Interesting, I've never heard a tape with that set-up before, but I bet it sounds killer. 8)
Ah, that makes sense. I use the MixPre usually instead of the PS-2, and rather like it. Here's the DBT show I used the MK4>CMC6>PS-2>R-09HR:
http://www.archive.org/details/dbt2009-02-20.mk4.flac16 (http://www.archive.org/details/dbt2009-02-20.mk4.flac16)
I was surprised how decent it sounds. :P
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I'll have to recheck. I coulda swore mine didn't...
With mine, the file isn't saved until 'stop' is hit. I had the power kicked out at one gig before stopping the track and came up empty. I also finished a set one time and immediately turned the box off. Also came up zeros.
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I'll have to recheck. I coulda swore mine didn't...
With mine, the file isn't saved until 'stop' is hit. I had the power kicked out at one gig before stopping the track and came up empty. I also finished a set one time and immediately turned the box off. Also came up zeros.
Yep.
I posted in the 661 thread on how to get it back though.
First you need to recover it.
I used bad copy pro. It costs $ but >:D
Then i used fixwav to overwrite the header.
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The literature says "SD" cards. What about SDHC cards? Whats the maximum size of the SD cards that folks have been using successfully?
Thanks .......
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I've been using Kingston 8gb SDHC cards just fine. I seem to recall the manual stating that 32gb was the limit.
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The recorder does NOT appear to save the file if the plug is pulled while running on external power.
The PP-99 external li-ion battery seems to run the box just fine. I got almost 3 1/2 hrs on set of new AA Sanyo 2700mah's with their first and only charge so I imagine the PP-99, at 4000mah, to handle most of our situations just fine. However, I should note that the adapter tip that comes with the battery (that fits the 661) absolutely sucks. If you rotate it ~90deg the unit shuts off. I hacked and old PS with a tip that fits the 661 much better and joined it with the battery cable.
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Re: 24/96 digi-in
I'm currently feeding the 661 a 24/96 signal via the coax input from the V3's digi out. It clocked on the first try. I had a chuckle when I attempted to adjust the gain levels on the 661 after I started recording. A box appears briefly on the screen stating, "Can not...". :)
Some random pics I took recently: 1 (http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a319/audioballer/Mics/ocm661a.jpg), 2 (http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a319/audioballer/Mics/ocm661b.jpg)
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Re: 24/96 digi-in- I had a chuckle when I attempted to adjust the gain levels on the 661 after I started recording. A box appears briefly on the screen stating, "Can not...". :)
very funny :lol:
that is cool
8)
-- Ian
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Don't know if it has been done yet, but could somebody show a size comparison between the 661 and a Sony PC-M1 DAT...maybe with the R-09HR in the picture too??
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Don't know if it has been done yet, but could somebody show a size comparison between the 661 and a Sony PC-M1 DAT...maybe with the R-09HR in the picture too??
http://www.sizeasy.com/page/size_comparison/20215-PMD661-vs-Tascam-DR-1-vs-Olympus-LS-10-vs-R-09HR-vs-PMD620
just plug in the dimensions of what you are looking for.
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I got almost 3 1/2 hrs on set of new AA Sanyo 2700mah's with their first and only charge
Curious what mics you were using with the Sanyos...
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Curious what mics you were using with the Sanyos...
Nak CM-1000's modded to accept phantom power, not sure on the draw...unfortunately, not commonly used mics.
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My concert 661 arrived from Oade yesterday and I just tested it with internal batteries. Got 4:43 of recording time powering a pair of Senn 8040s at 24/44.1 using a fully charged set of Sony 2500mA NiMH batteries. A new file was created without any audible interruption at 4:11:57, and the second file was properly closed before the unit powered down. Seems to be working fine with a PNY 16Gb SDHC chip. These are pretty much the results I was hoping for. :)
Really looking forward to using this rig in the field!
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My concert 661 arrived from Oade yesterday and I just tested it with internal batteries. Got 4:43 of recording time powering a pair of Senn 8040s at 24/44.1 using a fully charged set of Sony 2500mA NiMH batteries. A new file was created without any audible interruption at 4:11:57, and the second file was properly closed before the unit powered down. Seems to be working fine with a PNY 16Gb SDHC chip. These are pretty much the results I was hoping for. :)
Really looking forward to using this rig in the field!
great report!
looking forward to hearing your field results!
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What SDHC cards specifically are folks using without issue? I'm thinking about 4Gb, 8Gb & 16Gb. I see the PNY 16Gb quoted below.
What class is that?
I've seen class 2 and I've also seen up class 6.
I've got a 661 on the way, but the first show I use it for will be important to me & I'd like to minimize any chance of a problem.
Do you recommend/use the class 6? Can a card be "too fast"?
What specifically are you using that's really working for you.
Many thanks folks......
My concert 661 arrived from Oade yesterday and I just tested it with internal batteries. ... Seems to be working fine with a PNY 16Gb SDHC chip.
I also found this.... (Answers the "class = speed question)
"Selecting a card is easy with standardized SD Speed Classes!
Until now, the various companies making SD cards have used their own way to indicate the data transfer on SD cards, and many times it wasn't possible to know if the card would meet those performance claims when used in an actual device.
This is why the SD Association created the "SD Speed Class" standard for data transfer speeds. In the future, the "SD Speed Class" will be indicated on compatible devices and cards, and it will be simple to select a card by the transfer speed. Now, three types of cards have been specified, Class 2, Class 4, and Class 6.
Transfer speed is a minimum of 2MB/sec.
Transfer speed is a minimum of 4MB/sec.
Transfer speed is a minimum of 6MB/sec.
For example, when reading/writing with a Class 2 card, the transfer speed is over 2MB/sec. Class 4 is over 4MB/sec, Class 6 is over 6MB/sec. The transfer speed when reading/writing depends on the compatible device and card, and they belong to their own respective classes, and the class that the device or card belongs to is indicated by a mark on the product or the package.
The transfer speed is based on the result as measured under conditions regulated by the SD Association.
*Read and write speeds may vary depending on the read and write conditions, such as devices you use and file sizes you read and/or write. (For purposes of measuring write speed in this context, 1 MB = 1,000,000 bytes)."
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Hey all, i got my Oade warm-mod a couple of weeks ago. i went to great american taxi to check it out last weekend, and tried to run my m118 pre in front of it. FYI, the unit is not designed to take unbalanced i puts and had a strange distorted quality to it. unlistenable. so if you are planning on running an outboard pre, be warned you have to use the 1/8th in mini, which doug does not mod. just wanted to let people know, it has been a while since i read this whole thread, and it might already be in there.
richard
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Hey all, i got my Oade warm-mod a couple of weeks ago. i went to great american taxi to check it out last weekend, and tried to run my m118 pre in front of it. FYI, the unit is not designed to take unbalanced i puts and had a strange distorted quality to it. unlistenable. so if you are planning on running an outboard pre, be warned you have to use the 1/8th in mini, which doug does not mod. just wanted to let people know, it has been a while since i read this whole thread, and it might already be in there.
richard
Did you mean Concert Mod, because there is no warm mod 661. I am puzzled how the line in could not handle unbalanced. I have never heard of a recorder with a balanced line in that had issues with an unbalanced input, as long as pin 1 and 3 are properly bridged in a male xlr connector with male RCA on the other end. However, some home build cables short the ground at the unbalanced end of the cable, which could allow RF interference. I think you should ask Doug for clarification.
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What SDHC cards specifically are folks using without issue? I'm thinking about 4Gb, 8Gb & 16Gb. I see the PNY 16Gb quoted below.
What class is that?
The card I've been testing with is a Class 4 PNY Optima 16Gb. No field experience yet, but I've been using the card with the PMD620 for several months with no problems.
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There is a warm-mod, you have to ask him for it. i have a warm p2 as well. apparently Doug wasn't aware of the issue until i ran the the 118 into it. i really bought it to be a bit bucket for boards out of my minime, and for stea..i mean low profile recording. i might start running 118>minime>661, and use the p2 for boards, which i only do a few times a year. i have never run the minime 24 bit, so looking forward to that, just hate those calpots and the screwdriver.
i have to travel to nashville at the end of the month, and i am giong up to KY so see my folks, and the steep canyon rangers are playing my hometown. i am thinking i will just run mk4's> warm 661 to see what it sounds like.
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actually to be clear, there was not enough gain on the line in, and i ran mic in, phantom off to get enough gain, and i got the distortion. either way an outboard pre has to go to the 1/8 in. doug is sending me a cable to try it.
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i have never run the minime 24 bit, so looking forward to that, just hate those calpots and the screwdriver.
Hello- you should not have to adjust the calpots everytime you go out. They are a set it and forget it type of thing. If anything set them a little low. it barely matters in 24 bit.
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actually to be clear, there was not enough gain on the line in, and i ran mic in, phantom off to get enough gain, and i got the distortion. either way an outboard pre has to go to the 1/8 in. doug is sending me a cable to try it.
There are many preamps that have balanced line outputs, so it should be just fine with those. Also, the M118 has fixed gain like the M148, so I can see where you are limited if you are recording acoustic sources with mics that are not hot on the outputs.
I think that your feeding line into the mic in was an impedance mis-match, and was the likely cause for the distortion. The XLR line in is designed for a +4 db pro line level, not -10 consumer line like the 1/8.
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If one of you guys with a PMD661 can tell me how much time the unit needs to go from OFF to RECORDING (approx, in seconds.) I will be very grateful.
(Taken that the right preset already is active.)
According to Marantz it's 4 secs. Just want to be sure.
(I'm a new member here. Live i Sweden. So if you want a ”arcticesque” review of the 661 I can probably come in handy. When/If I buy this unit.)
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sorry if this has been already asked, but have any pmd661 recordings been posted to date? i'm anxious to hear what this box sounds like.
thanks.
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According to Marantz it's 4 secs. Just want to be sure.
I've just heard that it's more like 6 seconds (from another owner).
That's a lot IMO.
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According to Marantz it's 4 secs. Just want to be sure.
I've just heard that it's more like 6 seconds (from another owner).
That's a lot IMO.
Mine is 4 seconds from switch on through pressing record to vu meter operating.
TomR
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According to Marantz it's 4 secs. Just want to be sure.
I've just heard that it's more like 6 seconds (from another owner).
That's a lot IMO.
Mine is 4 seconds from switch on through pressing record to vu meter operating.
TomR
4 to 6 seconds is a miniscule amount of time from powering on to "record able". PLENTY of time to get ready to rock... I'm sure that my sd722 is at least that much time too.
;)
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4 to 6 seconds is a miniscule amount of time from powering on to "record able". PLENTY of time to get ready to rock... I'm sure that my sd722 is at least that much time too.
;)
I guess 4-6 secs is what to expect, but acceptable? Hmm... I can't see how a digital camera can be ready to shoot in 0,5 seconds and a digital audio recorder sometimes needs up to 15 secs (like the Microtracker 24/96) to record-mode. It's basically the same digital information being saved onto digital memory cards.
If you know what to record (like when taping concerts) 4-6 seconds is nothing. But when out on the streets/fields, trying to capture city/nature-sounds, timing is the key. It's a pretty big difference between 5 and 0,5 seconds when it comes to recording a passing train for instance.
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4 to 6 seconds is a miniscule amount of time from powering on to "record able". PLENTY of time to get ready to rock... I'm sure that my sd722 is at least that much time too.
;)
I guess 4-6 secs is what to expect, but acceptable? Hmm... I can't see how a digital camera can be ready to shoot in 0,5 seconds and a digital audio recorder sometimes needs up to 15 secs (like the Microtracker 24/96) to record-mode. It's basically the same digital information being saved onto digital memory cards.
If you know what to record (like when taping concerts) 4-6 seconds is nothing. But when out on the streets/fields, trying to capture city/nature-sounds, timing is the key. It's a pretty big difference between 5 and 0,5 seconds when it comes to recording a passing train for instance.
I work for a railroad, the signal dept, trains can be heard a long ways off before they get to you. Also observing train signals will let you know if a train is coming. Besides, just having the unit "on" will not drain the battery to any significant amount I would think.
Apparently the "engineering" required to record digital data is NOT the same for audio devices and digital cameras. If audio engineers could have the same instantaneous "ON" for audio recorders as there is for digital cameras I'm sure that they would. There must be a cost factor or physical reason for the lack of instantaneous on with digital audio recorders. I am not an electrical engineer. I would suggest that you contact someone in engineering at a company like Sound Devices, which is responsive to customer inquiries, and ask them for the technical reasons that audio recorders aren't instantly ready to record... Let us know what you find out and good luck in your field recording efforts.
:)
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I work for a railroad, the signal dept, trains can be heard a long ways off before they get to you. Also observing train signals will let you know if a train is coming.
It was just an example. And were I live it's almost impossible to predict the commuter train coming :)
Besides, just having the unit "on" will not drain the battery to any significant amount I would think.
That depends if your mic preamps+monitoring is active or not. I don't know how the 661 works, but if only the menu is active in standby-ON-mode you are right of course.
I would suggest that you contact someone in engineering at a company like Sound Devices, which is responsive to customer inquiries, and ask them for the technical reasons that audio recorders aren't instantly ready to record...
Will do!
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This is the answer from SD, I have also emailed Marantz Pro-section the same inquiry:
I have no ideas about why the 661 would take longer to boot up than a camera, but that sounds like a very good question for Marantz. Every piece of equipment is different, so boot up times will certainly vary.
Best Regards, Joe Ramos, Sound Devices, LLC
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I guess 4-6 secs is what to expect, but acceptable? Hmm... I can't see how a digital camera can be ready to shoot in 0,5 seconds and a digital audio recorder sometimes needs up to 15 secs (like the Microtracker 24/96) to record-mode. It's basically the same digital information being saved onto digital memory cards.
I do embedded software. I have done consumer electronics (not at the moment)...
It's not quite accurate to say that both devices are saving digital info onto memory cards, they both do that, but the basic systems aren't that similar. The 4-6 second time you're seeing is basically the time to boot up a computer - for both the camera and the audio device. There's a microcontroller of some sort and a bunch of peripheral devices which may or may not be on the same chip as the micro. Those peripheral devices need to be initialized, and depending on what that initialization involves (I have no idea here!) that might take time. Because of several design choices, some of those actions may or may not happen in parallel. Some of those design choices include the operating system running on the micro (if there is an OS at all!), what kind of interface exists to all the peripheral devices, how much self-test is performed before starting everything up. That last item is always interesting. Self test takes time, but makes it more likely that a system will really be able to do its job when it looks ready.
A somewhat flippant answer might be the 4-6 second is OK for an audio device because the market isn't pushing for .5 second boot time, but the photo market has. There's probably some truth there. The market seems to have asked for a pre-record capability, lots of devices have that. The PMD-660 at least has a soft power switch, so when it is 'off' it's in some kind of standby mode. There are usually power consumption tradeoffs between how fast to come out of standby vs. power consumed in standby. The pre-record mode certainly could be considered the "high power standby" mode.
I think Marantz has certainly reacted to many of the complaints I've heard (and made!) about the 660 -- 1/8" jacks, no digital in, higher sampling rates and bit depth, maybe sound quality (maybe, initial reports are promising). The next generation will do something new, exactly what that "something" is will depend on their marketing and engineering departments.
My TV takes more than 6 seconds to boot. Like the camera and the digital recorder it's got a microcontroller of some sort talking to a bunch of peripherals, this time video and audio processing, and a tuner. My computer takes a lot longer.
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This is the answer from SD, I have also emailed Marantz Pro-section the same inquiry:
I have no ideas about why the 661 would take longer to boot up than a camera, but that sounds like a very good question for Marantz. Every piece of equipment is different, so boot up times will certainly vary.
Best Regards, Joe Ramos, Sound Devices, LLC
Its a pity Joe Ramos did not give the equivalent times (and reasons) for the SD recorders.
Just checked the times for my digital cameras, by switching them on when the second hand of a wall clock was at 0 seconds and examining the fastest first photo I could take, I got the following:-
Fuji Finepix F31fd, point "n" shoot, 4 seconds
Fuji Finepix S6500fd, SLR like point "n" shoot, 4 seconds
Canon 350D SLR, 2.5 seconds
So, by my equipment standards the 661 is no slouch.
Hmmmmmmmm. I seem to be getting protective about my 661. Incipient pride of ownership?
BTW, if the 661 is already switched on, but not doing anything, pressing the record button starts the machine recording almost instantaneously. Activating the "prerecord" function gives a 2 second advantage to those whose reaction times are somewhat slower than an 18 year old's.
All in all it seems the 661 will allow almost instantaneous snapshot recording of happenings during a four hour stroll around town and country.
Cheers
TomR
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A somewhat flippant answer might be the 4-6 second is OK for an audio device because the market isn't pushing for .5 second boot time, but the photo market has. There's probably some truth there.
I don't buy that digital audio recorders should have a more complicated self test system than digital cameras. Just look at DV-cameras, they record stereo audio and video... simultaneously. The plastic HDV-camera at my work boots up in 1,5 secs, tops.
I think that demand, as you pointed out, is the main reason.
But it would still be interesting to hear an explaination from Marantz. No answer yet.
TomR:
I just tried the Canon 350D at work. First photo shot under 1 sec from ON. Definitely.
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Hmmmmmmmm. I seem to be getting protective about my 661. Incipient pride of ownership?
I still want the PMD 661 real badly, complaining about boot time is just some kind of therapy for me right now, hehe.
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In audio recorders I've used, the boot time seems directly
related to the size of the flash card you're using. My guess
is that the recorder OS is taking a look at the card to make
sure it's ready to go.
Some recorders, the FR-2LE for example, store information on
the card that's used at startup. This makes the startup time
a little longer than in other models.
Whether the startup time matters depends on how you're
planning to use the recorder, of course.
Flintstone
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I placed my order for an oade concert mod PMD-661 today :)
and I had some discussion about the concert mod vs warm mod for the pmd-661. (and he told me that with his mother passing away recently, he just hasn't had the time to update the website).
probably not too surprising to anyone, but here is the basic comparison between the two:
The warm 661 sound a lot like the warm ua5 while the concert mod is more like the tmod ua5.
though of course the 661 has better detail than the UA5
and Doug agreed with me that the concert mod would most likely be a better fit with my new beyerdynamic mics (which certainly have a warm or even dark color to them).
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I placed my order for an oade concert mod PMD-661 today :)
and I had some discussion about the concert mod vs warm mod for the pmd-661. (and he told me that with his mother passing away recently, he just hasn't had the time to update the website).
probably not too surprising to anyone, but here is the basic comparison between the two:
The warm 661 sound a lot like the warm ua5 while the concert mod is more like the tmod ua5.
though of course the 661 has better detail than the UA5
and Doug agreed with me that the concert mod would most likely be a better fit with my new beyerdynamic mics (which certainly have a warm or even dark color to them).
I had a similar correspondence with Doug today as well =D, I am getting ready to order one this week.
did he mention to you how long before you would get yours?
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I had a similar correspondence with Doug today as well =D, I am getting ready to order one this week.
did he mention to you how long before you would get yours?
no, he didn't say how long, but then, I didn't ask. On the order confirmation page, it does say that "upgraded machines ship in 2 to 4 business days. Stock machines ship in 1 to 2 business days". So based on that, I guess I'm expecting next week sometime. though I wonder if it will take a little longer because Doug has been busy with other stuff and might be playing catch-up a bit? I don't really know, just speculating here.
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This might not be applicable to what you guys are talking about but,...
I noticed that my 660 deck takes almost 10seconds to get the phantom power fired up enough to properly power my mics. Being that these run on less than 1.5v cell, perhaps there is a votage buffer/convertor that takes a bit to get up to the proper voltage to run the deck...
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I had a similar correspondence with Doug today as well =D, I am getting ready to order one this week.
did he mention to you how long before you would get yours?
no, he didn't say how long, but then, I didn't ask. On the order confirmation page, it does say that "upgraded machines ship in 2 to 4 business days. Stock machines ship in 1 to 2 business days". So based on that, I guess I'm expecting next week sometime. though I wonder if it will take a little longer because Doug has been busy with other stuff and might be playing catch-up a bit? I don't really know, just speculating here.
Mine shipped 4 business days after I placed the order, and that was with a backlog for 661 mods ahead of it and right after Doug's mom passed away. He said they were working overtime to keep up with the current demand.
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My guess is that the recorder OS is taking a look at the card to make sure it's ready to go.
That also makes sense. The Microtracker 24/96 reboots everytime a new Compact flash is inserted (which always used to drive me mad) probably because the OS needs to reset and check the card or something. But then again, a compact flash movie cam should do the same...
...but as Javier Cinakowski wrote it might have something to do with powering up the mic preamps, but then again... again... a lot of camcorders have phantom powered mics...
...actually, I give up trying to figure this out.
I agree that in most cases the startup time's not essential, but it just shouldn't be impossible to design an audio recorder with 0,5 sec boot time. Full stop.
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Here's a sample... (74mb)
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=VGUWMA0I
Phish 3/6/09 "Rift"
Nakamichi CM-1000 (Sank p48 mod) > Oade Concert 661 (-18db engaged)
24/44.1 - Located in OTS, center, ~9-10ft high
Fades applied, +6db gain
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http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=523365
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http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=523365
Yay, finally a 661 tape, thanks!
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It's a little rough around the edges. The crowd is quite prevalent, as one would imagine. When folks settle down, it sounds quite nice even from so far back. I'm really liking this box. The display is so crystal clear. I'm still getting used to the tiny doubled-up gain knobs. They are sensitive to the slightest movement. The gain adjustments are noticeable at times.
It was so nice to carry just my mics, tbar/clamp, cables, recorder & battery in my smaller rig bag. I threw it over my shoulder, biked to and from my hotel (+1mi) to all three shows. No "neck and my back" issues. :D
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It's a little rough around the edges. The crowd is quite prevalent, as one would imagine. When folks settle down, it sounds quite nice even from so far back. I'm really liking this box. The display is so crystal clear. I'm still getting used to the tiny doubled-up gain knobs. They are sensitive to the slightest movement. The gain adjustments are noticeable at times.
It was so nice to carry just my mics, tbar/clamp, cables, recorder & battery in my smaller rig bag. I threw it over my shoulder, biked to and from my hotel (+1mi) to all three shows. No "neck and my back" issues. :D
It sounds like a great recorder! Any issues that you ran into so far using the 661? I read that the 660 needs to be run with a pad frequently, but sounds like you didn't need one? Also, how's the noise floor? Hopefully one of the TSers like Chris Church can run some comparisons with the R-09HR and some other smaller recorders. If it sounds good, I may sell my MixPre and get one myself. :P
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^^ Thank you for the reminder!
The -18db mic attenuator was engaged. I will edit the torrent post. Please make a note on your txt files. ;) According to Doug, he recommends using as much "attenuation" (reduction in gain) as possible, and increasing as needed. I recall the settings being -18,-12,-6,0.
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^^ Thank you for the reminder!
The -18db mic attenuator was engaged. I will edit the torrent post. Please make a note on your txt files. ;) According to Doug, he recommends using as much "attenuation" (reduction in gain) as possible, and increasing as needed. I recall the settings being -18,-12,-6,0.
Is the attenuator part of the Oade mod or is it something you plug into the 661? Never had to use one so I am clueless. :P
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^^ Thank you for the reminder!
The -18db mic attenuator was engaged. I will edit the torrent post. Please make a note on your txt files. ;) According to Doug, he recommends using as much "attenuation" (reduction in gain) as possible, and increasing as needed. I recall the settings being -18,-12,-6,0.
Is the attenuator part of the Oade mod or is it something you plug into the 661? Never had to use one so I am clueless. :P
comes standard with stock unit, those settings mentioned (off, -18, -12, -6) are the choices you can select in the menu.
the 660 had only -20db, its nice to see they gave more choices so you select how much you need; depending on your situation.
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comes standard with stock unit, those settings mentioned (off, -18, -12, -6) are the choices you can select in the menu.
the 660 had only -20db, its nice to see they gave more choices so you select how much you need; depending on your situation.
Awesome, thanks for clarifying that! Glad that it's not an extra piece of equipment that you would need to plug into the device everytime you use it.
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^^ Thank you for the reminder!
The -18db mic attenuator was engaged. I will edit the torrent post. Please make a note on your txt files. ;) According to Doug, he recommends using as much "attenuation" (reduction in gain) as possible, and increasing as needed. I recall the settings being -18,-12,-6,0.
Do you have any idea why Doug would recommend using as much "attenuation" (reduction in gain) as possible, and increasing as needed?
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Doug explains it a little better:
On the 661 it is NOT a pad, it is a gain setting. Always run at the lowest gain setting you can as long as you can get to -3 to 0dB. I would start with -12dB an use -18dB if your mics are hot and the sound is loud. This will give you the lowest noise and distortion and the widest dynamic range.
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Doug explains it a little better:
On the 661 it is NOT a pad, it is a gain setting. Always run at the lowest gain setting you can as long as you can get to -3 to 0dB. I would start with -12dB an use -18dB if your mics are hot and the sound is loud. This will give you the lowest noise and distortion and the widest dynamic range.
Thank you for the clarification.
:coolguy:
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Perhaps a stupid question, but: Now when the Marantz PMD 661 has line in through the XLR inputs as well, is it OK to go XLR->XLR from the MixPre?
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Sure...not a stupid question at all.
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It's a little rough around the edges. The crowd is quite prevalent, as one would imagine. When folks settle down, it sounds quite nice even from so far back.
I think it's a nice sounding tape, especially if you were way back. The crowd noise is not bad in any way IMO since it sounds distant from your mics and it's crowd excitement, not just overwhelming chatting in the background. I think this one sounds better than some of the other Hampton tapes I've heard so far. :P
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hey all,
has anybody run this with an outboard a/d? i am planning on PBS thursday 3/19 and Los Lobos 3/21. i assume the digi input with it set to 24/48 out of my minime at the same sample rate. i have never run it this way.
Also 4/2 i plan to run mk4>661 for steep canyon rangers, and i wonder how people are running using the 661 pre with a bluegraass band? thanks
Richard
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Yes, make sure that one of the presets on the deck are set to match what you want to run your MiniMe on or I would expect that you'll get no signal or digi in unlock. It would be much easier to set it up before hand rather than before the show you want to run for. The menus aren't too tricky but I always prefer to have everything ready to go before hand.
I haven't tried out mics direct in but you should be able to get away with a lower setting for a bluegrass band. Best of luck, I'm sure you'll be fine...
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3/7/09: http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=523424
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I had a similar correspondence with Doug today as well =D, I am getting ready to order one this week.
did he mention to you how long before you would get yours?
no, he didn't say how long, but then, I didn't ask. On the order confirmation page, it does say that "upgraded machines ship in 2 to 4 business days. Stock machines ship in 1 to 2 business days". So based on that, I guess I'm expecting next week sometime. though I wonder if it will take a little longer because Doug has been busy with other stuff and might be playing catch-up a bit? I don't really know, just speculating here.
Mine shipped 4 business days after I placed the order, and that was with a backlog for 661 mods ahead of it and right after Doug's mom passed away. He said they were working overtime to keep up with the current demand.
in case anyone is wondering about current shipping times for oade modded decks, mine got shipped today. I placed my order on the afternoon of the 10th (last Tuesday), and it got picked up by fedex this morning. So that's 4 full business days, within the 2-4 business day time frame listed on the oade website.
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I had a similar correspondence with Doug today as well =D, I am getting ready to order one this week.
did he mention to you how long before you would get yours?
no, he didn't say how long, but then, I didn't ask. On the order confirmation page, it does say that "upgraded machines ship in 2 to 4 business days. Stock machines ship in 1 to 2 business days". So based on that, I guess I'm expecting next week sometime. though I wonder if it will take a little longer because Doug has been busy with other stuff and might be playing catch-up a bit? I don't really know, just speculating here.
Mine shipped 4 business days after I placed the order, and that was with a backlog for 661 mods ahead of it and right after Doug's mom passed away. He said they were working overtime to keep up with the current demand.
in case anyone is wondering about current shipping times for oade modded decks, mine got shipped today. I placed my order on the afternoon of the 10th (last Tuesday), and it got picked up by fedex this morning. So that's 4 full business days, within the 2-4 business day time frame listed on the oade website.
Thanks for the info, I am going to order mine this Thursday.
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Ok, I'm still trying to trouble shoot this.
I'm using a 16 gig PNY SDHC card, class 4. I had several problems last saturday in the field and again last night at home. I have no idea what caused it but my unit has stopped recording on several occasions. Saturday night I had the key lock on and looked down and the red record light was no longer lit. This was about 12 minutes into the show. This same thing happened a few times that night. It looked like the pre-amp was still working as there were still levels on the side but the led screen was showing nothing. Could this be an issue with my card? Also do you folks format the card before each use? Do you format the card in the unit or with your card reader?
I will shoot an e-mail to Mr. Oade and will let you know what he says. Just wondering if anyone here has had similiar issues?
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I'm pretty sure the specs for "Class 4" cards allow enough room for data transfer with our hobby, but I do know that "Class 6" cards are usually recommended.
Was this your first and only time out with the 661? Any tests from home that replicate?
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Same thing happened at home last night with fresh batteries.....
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The last time I spoke with them, D&M Pro recomended Lexar cards for their equipment. Any other brand is said to be subject to compatability issues with their flash recorders.
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The last time I spoke with them, D&M Pro recomended Lexar cards for their equipment. Any other brand is said to be subject to compatability issues with their flash recorders.
that's funny. a week ago (Mar 10), they recommended either PNY or Sandisk to me...
Hello Jason,
End users have reported good results when using SanDisk and PNY SD or SDHC cards. Any speed should work just fine but higher speeds should yield better performance. There are no size limitations at this time.
Feel free to contact technical support at (630) 741-0330, option 1, if you have any further questions.
Best regards,
Technical Support
D&M Professional
(630) 741-0330
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The last time I spoke with them, D&M Pro recomended Lexar cards for their equipment. Any other brand is said to be subject to compatability issues with their flash recorders.
that's funny. a week ago (Mar 10), they recommended either PNY or Sandisk to me...
Hello Jason,
End users have reported good results when using SanDisk and PNY SD or SDHC cards. Any speed should work just fine but higher speeds should yield better performance. There are no size limitations at this time.
Feel free to contact technical support at (630) 741-0330, option 1, if you have any further questions.
Best regards,
Technical Support
D&M Professional
(630) 741-0330
I guess they have changed their tune. A couple of years ago, they recommended using Lexar for the 670 and 671.
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I used three different
Sandisk Kingston 8gb SDHC (Class 6) cards, one each night at Hampton, and they all worked fine. I'll let you guys (and D&M) know if anything changes.
edit - typed incorrect SD card :P
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well that's what is so troubling - the fact that Marantz recommended to me PNY and Sandisk, and Goldy is having problems with the 16 gig PNY SDHC card, class 4. I ordered that exact PNY card, but just ordered an 8gig card as well, based on Goldy's problems. my deck won't be delivered for another couple of days, but I'll be testing both those cards once it arrives.
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well that's what is so troubling - the fact that Marantz recommended to me PNY and Sandisk, and Goldy is having problems with the 16 gig PNY SDHC card, class 4. I ordered that exact PNY card, but just ordered an 8gig card as well, based on Goldy's problems. my deck won't be delivered for another couple of days, but I'll be testing both those cards once it arrives.
I am sort of holding now, I guess. Definately looking at getting one from Doug, but now not sure about the card. I was looking at a Lexar Platinum II 16gb SDHC, but may instead go for a pair of 8gb cards.
Jason, can you let us know what you find when you test yours?
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I'm seriously thinking about picking up an Oade 661 - Has anybody tested the Kingston SDHC cards with this unit? I have NEVER been disappointed with the Kingston cards, CF or SDHC.
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I'm running more tests at home right now. I want to confirm the file-saving/powering-down discrepancy. I also received a PP-99 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Digital-Concepts-Universal-Portable-Power-Pack-PP-99_W0QQitemZ220360151865QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20090212?IMSfp=TL090212124010r6361) in the mail today. It's currently charging but I hope to have some info on run-times with it as well (vs. internals) here soon. The PP-99 is 4000mah, btw.
I stated before that the unit will not power down during REC PAUSE. The same goes for RECording as well.
regarding your external power supply, does the 661 require a particular voltage? or just the right tip? I got a 9v 5400mah external and wanted to make sure it was compatible.
I read the owners manual and this thread and didn't see anything on what it requires.
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I'm seriously thinking about picking up an Oade 661 - Has anybody tested the Kingston SDHC cards with this unit? I have NEVER been disappointed with the Kingston cards, CF or SDHC.
Hey dactylus, see my previous post on the last page. I was actually using Kingston 8gb SDHC cards (not Sandisk) at Hampton, but totally spaced when typing my post at work earlier.
I'm running more tests at home right now. I want to confirm the file-saving/powering-down discrepancy. I also received a PP-99 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Digital-Concepts-Universal-Portable-Power-Pack-PP-99_W0QQitemZ220360151865QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20090212?IMSfp=TL090212124010r6361) in the mail today. It's currently charging but I hope to have some info on run-times with it as well (vs. internals) here soon. The PP-99 is 4000mah, btw.
I stated before that the unit will not power down during REC PAUSE. The same goes for RECording as well.
regarding your external power supply, does the 661 require a particular voltage? or just the right tip? I got a 9v 5400mah external and wanted to make sure it was compatible.
I read the owners manual and this thread and didn't see anything on what it requires.
I've tried both the "5v" and "6v" settings on the battery and they worked just fine. The specs for the unit are "5v". I asked about our common wally batts...9v is too much according to Doug, so I wouldn't recommend exceeding 6v for the time being.
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How much time did you get with the pp-99?
thanks for the info
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fwiw, doug has always recommended either sandisk or lexar to me for marantz decks. i never had a problem with sandisk or kingstons for that matter.
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I'm seriously thinking about picking up an Oade 661 - Has anybody tested the Kingston SDHC cards with this unit? I have NEVER been disappointed with the Kingston cards, CF or SDHC.
Hey dactylus, see my previous post on the last page. I was actually using Kingston 8gb SDHC cards (not Sandisk) at Hampton, but totally spaced when typing my post at work earlier.
Thanks for the correction update - I have several Kingston 8gb SDHC cards already on hand.
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Ok, I'm still trying to trouble shoot this.
I'm using a 16 gig PNY SDHC card, class 4. I had several problems last saturday in the field and again last night at home. I have no idea what caused it but my unit has stopped recording on several occasions. Saturday night I had the key lock on and looked down and the red record light was no longer lit. This was about 12 minutes into the show. This same thing happened a few times that night. It looked like the pre-amp was still working as there were still levels on the side but the led screen was showing nothing. Could this be an issue with my card? Also do you folks format the card before each use? Do you format the card in the unit or with your card reader?
I will shoot an e-mail to Mr. Oade and will let you know what he says. Just wondering if anyone here has had similiar issues?
Any update on this? I have my finger on the trigger for one of these, but cannot accept even the slightest chance that there is some ghost in the machine that will cause it to stop recording for no apparent reason. Reliability is the number one requirement for a field recorder, IMO. Just wondering if it's a card issue, and nothing to do with the 661.
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I will not be able to get a new card and do some testing until this weekend at the earliest...
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I will not be able to get a new card and do some testing until this weekend at the earliest...
Thanks. I may just wait for your report on this potential issue before ordering.
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*** NOTE: To anyone who downloaded my recent Phish - Hampton torrents ***
All three nights are out of phase.
Through the help and guidance of a few kind souls here at TS, I was able to determine that the polarity of my cm1000's is somehow reversed. :o I'm assuming this happened during the phantom mod. I ran some tests with another mic pair at home this evening and found that is was mics, not the recorder.
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Has anybody tested the Kingston SDHC cards with this unit? I have NEVER been disappointed with the Kingston cards, CF or SDHC.
Hey dactylus, see my previous post on the last page. I was actually using Kingston 8gb SDHC cards (not Sandisk) at Hampton, but totally spaced when typing my post at work earlier.
Thanks for the correction update - I have several Kingston 8gb SDHC cards already on hand.
This might not be related at all: I had major problems using a 4gb Kingston card with a Microtracker 24/96 a while back. When pressing REC the recording wouldn't start (”Media not formatted”), I had to wait 5 secs and press again. This was only CF-cards together with a Microtracker. But since then I avoid Kingston and only use Sandisk.
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I can't stand waiting any longer, so I just ordered one from Doug, whoo hoo !!!!
Now, time to shop for a bag half the size of the one I now use. :)
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Ok, I'm still trying to trouble shoot this.
I'm using a 16 gig PNY SDHC card, class 4. I had several problems last saturday in the field and again last night at home. I have no idea what caused it but my unit has stopped recording on several occasions. Saturday night I had the key lock on and looked down and the red record light was no longer lit. This was about 12 minutes into the show. This same thing happened a few times that night. It looked like the pre-amp was still working as there were still levels on the side but the led screen was showing nothing. Could this be an issue with my card? Also do you folks format the card before each use? Do you format the card in the unit or with your card reader?
I will shoot an e-mail to Mr. Oade and will let you know what he says. Just wondering if anyone here has had similiar issues?
Any update on this? I have my finger on the trigger for one of these, but cannot accept even the slightest chance that there is some ghost in the machine that will cause it to stop recording for no apparent reason. Reliability is the number one requirement for a field recorder, IMO. Just wondering if it's a card issue, and nothing to do with the 661.
Haven't had an opportunity to use in the field yet (maiden voyage this Saturday), but I've tested my Oade 661 with the PNY 16Gb card twice at home @ 24/44.1 and 24/48 with no issues. I formatted the card in the recorder before starting each test.
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I can't stand waiting any longer, so I just ordered one from Doug, whoo hoo !!!!
Now, time to shop for a bag half the size of the one I now use. :)
oh snap! ncie pickup
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I can't stand waiting any longer, so I just ordered one from Doug, whoo hoo !!!!
Now, time to shop for a bag half the size of the one I now use. :)
oh snap! ncie pickup
You know it!! Went for the Warm Mod to compliment my 460s.
Now I just need something to record, shows around here are kind of weak until April.
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I ordered mine this morning as well >:D
I got the Concert Mod. I need to get a external power source now.
I guess I am a Marantz nut, I have had the PMD430, 660, and now the 661.
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I ordered mine this morning as well >:D
I got the Concert Mod. I need to get a external power source now.
I guess I am a Marantz nut, I have had the PMD430, 660, and now the 661.
My oade concert mod was just delivered and is now sitting on my desk here at work, still in the box. I'll unpack as soon as I get home this afternoon.
I'm also thinking about an external power solution, for longer run times.
Internal rechargeable AA's are abuot 2500mAH, right? so I figure to make it worthwhile, the external pack should be at least 5000mAH... because, is it really worth it to run a 3000mAH external pack when you could get close to that just running the internals? not for me.
I'm thinking about these options:
lead acid:
http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2087
6V, 7000mAH
$20 (+ charger)
NiMH:
http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=5000
6V, 4500mAH
$30 (+ charger)
the lead acid is 4 times heavier (2.78lbs) and a bigger physical battery, but it does have 55% higher capacity than the NiMH. and its cheaper. and when size is really a concern, I'm planning on running internal batteries anyway.
So those two are my thoughts. Has anyone else put together an external power supply for a PMD-661 yet? Anyone else have other suggestions?
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I saw this in the remote powering forum under a r-09 thread
http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Universal-Portable-Polaroid-Closeout/dp/B0012NYC8A
4000Mah
9.99
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^ That's the PP-99 I mentioned earlier. Actually, in 5 or 6v mode, I think it's only 3000mah. I ran my box the entire first night of Hampton on one of these. ~4 hours.
The included adapta plug SUCKS and the 661 does not like it! I had to hack an old Creative 5v wallwart that fits the 661 perfectly and then hack the cable that came with the PP-99.
At this price, I may just grab another.
edit - shipping is $7.95; just grabbed 2...thanks for the head's up!
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I saw this in the remote powering forum under a r-09 thread
http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Universal-Portable-Polaroid-Closeout/dp/B0012NYC8A
4000Mah
9.99
^ That's the PP-99 I mentioned earlier. Actually, in 5 or 6v mode, I think it's only 3000mah. I ran my box the entire first night of Hampton on one of these. ~4 hours.
while that one looks nice and small (and inexpensive), if it's only giving us 3000mAH in 5 or 6v mode, then I think I'd prefer to just run internals (~2500mAH) and not deal with the extra box. To make it worthwhile, I think the external needs to be a bit larger.
and what is the DC output voltage from the AC adapter? 5V? 6V? I guess I can measure it when I get home in an hour or so, but was curious if anyone else had already measured it.
- Jason
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while that one looks nice and small (and inexpensive), if it's only giving us 3000mAH in 5 or 6v mode, then I think I'd prefer to just run internals (~2500mAH) and not deal with the extra box. To make it worthwhile, I think the external needs to be a bit larger.
and what is the DC output voltage from the AC adapter? 5V? 6V? I guess I can measure it when I get home in an hour or so, but was curious if anyone else had already measured it.
I prefer to run externals cuz I, personally, find it easier to deal with especially if the recorder is in a small bag. Lowpro/headworn, I'd use internals no question. I actually used a combination of internals and the external (PP99) that last two nights at Hampton.
I'm almost 100% positive that the AC adapter outputs 5v. That back of the 661 says "5v" as well.
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I'm almost 100% positive that the AC adapter outputs 5v. That back of the 661 says "5v" as well.
yes, it says 5V in both places (on the back of the deck and on the AC adapter). and I just measured it at 5.14V with my multimeter. I know some of those 6V packs that I listed above actually output close to 7V when fully charged... I wonder how much is too much for this deck... I'll probably go searching for a true 5V output external power supply.
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There are some links in the 660 thread for externals.
Both the 660 and the 661 are 5v and consume about the same power.
I use a Tekkeon mp3450 for my 660.
It has selectable voltage from 5v to 19v.
You get 10000 mAh @ 5VDC.
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I have been eyeing the Tekkeon for quite some time. The ability to add the extenda-pack (to double-up on battery life) is awesome. Its price, though, has kept me in the budget battery category.
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Yeah, I hear you on the price.
I think I paid 119 for it.
However if I ever switch up gear I'll be able to use it with other pres/ad's/recorders
because of the selective voltage.
Where as if I just bought a 5v and switched gear, I'd be screwed.
Not too many pieces of gear are 5v rated.
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That Tekkeon mp3450 looks pretty sweet. though, depending on price, I may opt for the MP3300 instead.
both are the same physical size and at 5V, the mp3300 gives 7,200mAH compared the 10,000mAH of the mp3450.
http://www.tekkeon.com/products-mypall-specs.html (http://www.tekkeon.com/products-mypall-specs.html)
either would probably give plenty of run time... with the pmd-661. now for some price comparison searching...
edit to add:
I've found a few places online that have the mp3450 for $119 (newegg, ecost), and it looks like the mp3300 goes for $79 (at ecost.com)... so $40 more for an additional 2800 mAH... I'll probably just go for the mp3450. Like I said above, they are the same physical size (though the mp3450 is heavier)... so I might as well... and what's another $40? ;)
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Yeah, if I were to go for the Tekkeon, I'd go the whole 9 and get the 3450. I don't think the extenda-pack option is available for the 3300.
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That Tekkeon mp3450 looks pretty sweet. though, depending on price, I may opt for the MP3300 instead.
both are the same physical size and at 5V, the mp3300 gives 7,200mAH compared the 10,000mAH of the mp3450.
http://www.tekkeon.com/products-mypall-specs.html (http://www.tekkeon.com/products-mypall-specs.html)
either would probably give plenty of run time... with the pmd-661. now for some price comparison searching...
edit to add:
I've found a few places online that have the mp3450 for $119 (newegg, ecost), and it looks like the mp3300 goes for $79 (at ecost.com)... so $40 more for an additional 2800 mAH... I'll probably just go for the mp3450. Like I said above, they are the same physical size (though the mp3450 is heavier)... so I might as well... and what's another $40? ;)
I got mine from new egg jason.
I think it came to 125 shipped.
Allsome little battery.
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Another battery option when you get into this price range is the 13000mA PM85-50 available from Bixnet for $120. Not quite as versatile as the Tekkeon MP3450, but with 5V, 8.4V or 11V output it will handle most field recorders and it's very compact.
http://www.bixnet.com/mumiexbapaki1.html
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Where is everybody getting their SD/SDHC cards these days?
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Where is everybody getting their SD/SDHC cards these days?
I got mine from New Egg.
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first impressions after using the oade concert mod PMD-661 for one full show now:
In general, I think this is a great little deck. I think the sound is clean and smooth (though it's a little hard to know fur sure, because it was also my first time using the mics as well). The OLED screen is great. The meters are nice and easy to use (both the LED lights and the on-screen meters). I used my 8gb Sandisk Ultra II SDHC card (I think its a class 4). I ran at 24/48 and had no problems at all. For the first set, I had the autotrack feature set to split the files every 30 minutes. If the files aren't seamless, it's not audible. I zoomed in to view individual samples and it certainly seems to me, both audibly and visually, that the splits are seamless. For set 2, I turned off the autotrack feature and just had one long file. (~80 min, so only ~1.3 gigs. At some point, I'll do 24/96 testing and see how it handles the 4gig max file size split).
I'll post a couple of samples shortly. The only problem with the deck, is that I think I slightly brickwalled. Getting the levels right was my biggest concern going in, because I was unfamiliar with the deck, and unfamiliar with the new mics. The beyerdynamic mics have a sensitivity of 30mV/Pa. So going in, I knew that they were a LOT more sensitive compared to my old gefells (I think 13mV/Pa). I chose to not use the -15dB pad on the mics, but did use the -18dB setting on the PMD-661. I had my levels right around 4 on the knob, and I was peaking around -3dB. But, looking at the wave file, I can see that it brickwalled. BUT, it only really brickwalled for a very short time with some of the louder percussive sounds (snare drum and stuff like that). So because it was for only a very short duration, I can't really hear it. I certainly wouldn't have guessed that I was brickwalling just based on the sound. It wasn't until I opened up the files in Samplitude and saw the files that I realized what had happened... So what does this mean going forward? I think I am going to engage the -15dB pad on my mics, and then use the -12 or -6dB setting on the PMD-661. with the lower input from the mics, I expect that the problem will be resolved.
But, I would check out the specs for whatever mics you are planning to use with the PMD-661, and see how hot of a signal they output. If they output a very hot signal (like the beyerdynamic's), consider using a pad on the mic to lower the input before hand.
no full battery tests yet either. I haven't yet purchased my external, so I was using standard energizer AA's (not the lithiums, just the energizer "max" batteries). At the end of the first set (~1 hour and 35 minutes), I had only battery bar left, so I decided to switch out the batteries for set 2. I know that that seems considerably less run time compared to previous reports using the internals, but I think the beyers draw more current than what has previously been tested and reported. The beyers draw 4.6mA per mic from phantom. And, the batteries were NOT totally dead. In the middle of set 2, Ted's R09HR battery died, so I gave him two of the "used" batteries that I has used during set 1. They lasted at least 40 more minutes through the end of set 2 in Ted's r09hr, so they definitely still had some juice left. I plan on doing a full internal battery test this weekend (running it until it dies). I am also planning to test out 24/96, with both the 8gb Sandisk Ultra II and the 16gb PNY (both class 4).
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alright, here are a couple of samples (the whole show will be up on archive.org shortly, both 16 bit & 24 bit)
the only processing on these was normalizing (based on peak level), resample to 44.1, and dither to 16 bit. Everything was done in Samplitude.
source:
(on-stage) beyerdynamic CK930 > Marantz PMD-661 w/ oade "concert mod" (@ 24 bit / 48 kHz)
"Invisible Landscape"
http://www.sendspace.com/file/2u79kh (http://www.sendspace.com/file/2u79kh)
"Berber Song"
http://www.sendspace.com/file/8fz5h6 (http://www.sendspace.com/file/8fz5h6)
and here's a screenshot from Samplitude, showing the minor brickwalling:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v22/jasonsobel/misc/pmd-661-minor-brickwall-1.jpg)
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Good info Jason, thanks!
I know with the ACM 671, one should run the pad on at -20 db, and run the mics fully hot (no pad). I bet if you ran your mics with no pad, and set the 661 at -18 db, you should eliminate your brickwall problem (probably check with Doug on this). I believe that the 661 has 3 different pad settings, so you can always have a lower pad setting on the deck for quieter, non-rock shows. Probably just take a bit of time to match the new deck with you existing setup.
Please keep us updated, thanks!
P.S. If you have an external battery pack plugged in, will it automatically switch to external power without a skip when the internals die, like the 671?
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I know with the ACM 671, one should run the pad on at -20 db, and run the mics fully hot (no pad). I bet if you ran your mics with no pad, and set the 661 at -18 db, you should eliminate your brickwall problem (probably check with Doug on this). I believe that the 661 has 3 different pad settings, so you can always have a lower pad setting on the deck for quieter, non-rock shows. Probably just take a bit of time to match the new deck with you existing setup.
Please keep us updated, thanks!
maybe I wasn't clear. I did run the -18dB setting on the PMD-661. and I did NOT use the pad on the mics. and this was the result. I think the beyers are more sensitive than other mics that are "typically" used, and thus I should use the pad on the mics to lower the signal before it gets to the PMD-661.
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Thanks for the clarification, very interesting! I wonder what other mics might have this issue with the 661?
Please keep us informed with your progress, most appreciated!
:)
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here's the full 16 bit version:
http://www.archive.org/details/clubdelf2009-03-20.ck930.flac16 (http://www.archive.org/details/clubdelf2009-03-20.ck930.flac16)
and the 24 bit version:
http://www.archive.org/details/clubdelf2009-03-20.ck930.flac24 (http://www.archive.org/details/clubdelf2009-03-20.ck930.flac24)
and I'll reiterate, the brickwalling is very minor, and essentially is inaudible, because it only occurred for very brief moments when the snare drum was hit. That tells me that the signal from the mics was probably only a few dB hotter than the deck could handle. Which leads me to believe that with the -15dB pad on the mics, the signal will be fine going into the deck, and no brickwalling issues. then, it will just be a matter of choosing the right gain setting on the PMD-661 (0, -6, -12, or -18) to get appropriate levels.
and regarding what other mics might have similar issues... most mic manufacturers publish sensitivity specs (in mV/pA). I just took a quick look at a few "common" mics...
Neumann km184 = 15mV/Pa
Schoeps mk4/cmc6 = 13mV/Pa
Microtech Gefell m200 = 13 mV/Pa
Busman Audio BSC-1 = 9 or 10 mV/Pa
beyerdynamic CK930 = 30mV/Pa
so from this short list, it seems as though the beyers are definitely a good deal more sensitive than other mics that might be used. Because of this, the signal coming out of the beyers would be a good deal hotter. And because I am just barely brickwalling, I would guess that most mics could be used (without engaging the pad on the mics) with no problems of brickwalling the PMD-661.
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ok, I have some more testing results.
First, the battery test. This was done using 4 energizer "max" AA batteries. phantom power being supplied to two beyerdynamic CK930 mics (4.6mA current draw).
Because I only had one bar left on the battery power at setbreak last night, I switched to 4 new AA's for set 2.
Last night's set 2 went 80 minutes. I was running 24/48 to a Sandisk Ultra II sdhc card.
Today, I decide to continue with these batteries to see how long it would go.
I set it up in my living room, this time running 24/96 to my 16gb PNY sdhc (class 4) card.
I just looked over, and it was dead. the unit was off. On the PNY card, I now have a 24/96 file that is 81 minutes.
So, for battery life with my mics, I get ~160 minutes of run time. 2 hours and 40 minutes.
That's less than I was hoping for, but not terrible considering the current draw of these mics.
Based on these results, I just ordered the Tekkeon mp3450 battery that was discussed earlier in this thread. With 10AH at the 5v setting, that should be plenty for a regular show. I'll do full battery testing again once I get the mp3450.
And, concurrent with the battery test was the 24/96 onto the PNY card test. It went smoothly, with no problems. No hiccups or anything like that. Which I'm very pleased with. And the file closed down with no errors when the batteries died (as expected, because it was the internal batteries). With an external battery, I might not expect the same behavior if the plug is suddenly pulled, because the deck isn't expecting power to be lost.
But I know that at least one other person here had some issues with 24/96 onto a Class 4 card. At this point, I see no trouble with it. Hopefully we'll get to hear about more experiences as more people get this deck.
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You should actually get significantly longer run time with a set of good rechargeable NiMH batteries than with alkalines. Even if the rated capacity is the same, NiMH will last longer in high drain situations due to their lower internal resistance.
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I didn't know that. However, the couple of times a year that I will need to use the internals, I will likely be using alkalines (because I'll be using the external battery most of the time, and I don't own a set of a AA rechargeable NiMH's). So for me, that 2:40 run time is a good reference. But maybe I should look into getting a set of NiMH's as well.
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I get more than double the run time using nimh than good alkaline batteries. The Sanyo 2700 Nimh runs my 660 for more than 5 hours...
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Note that the PMD660 is completely different from the PMD661.
(Well, they are both made by Marantz.) So the battery life of
660 (feeding phantom power to mics?) is not related to the 661.
The point about NiMH cells ability to keep voltage high for
longer, while the Alkaline cells' voltage slowly declines, is a
valid point.
Flintstone
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I didn't know that. However, the couple of times a year that I will need to use the internals, I will likely be using alkalines (because I'll be using the external battery most of the time, and I don't own a set of a AA rechargeable NiMH's). So for me, that 2:40 run time is a good reference. But maybe I should look into getting a set of NiMH's as well.
or, for those couple of times a year, you could simply go with the e2 lithiums and not have to worry at all.
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Hey all,
I got a full Los Lobos (bout 2 hours) show on 4 duracell AA's, just running as a bit bucket out of an apogee minime. Granted it was about 2 hours, and i was not using the pre-amp. listeng to it on them right now. Thursday i got about 30 minutes of a PBS show, as i did not know that NiMH do not hold a charge. i charged them about 2 weeks prior. luckily i was running my p2 as well.
how close to showtime do you all charge those things (NiMH)?
ran 24/48 into a 16 gig Sandisc Ultra II, all seems well.
i am planning on running mk4>661 next week for steep canyon rangers. anybody have any advice for the pad setting? thanks
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(Hey all,
how close to showtime do you all charge those things (NiMH)?)
Hi All
NiMHs are well known for loss of charge whilst sitting around doing nothing - for maximum charge its probably best to charge within 24 hours of use. You might want to try Panasonic Infinium or Sanyo Eneloop brands of NiMHs. The manufacturers claim these batteries maintain most of their charge for 12 months. They are ideal for occasional useage of digital cameras and such like.
I use both (8 Sanyo and 4 Panasonic) but not had chance to check their claim to fame - too busy recording and having to change batteries within hours/days rather than months. !00% use on naturerecording - I love my 661.
Cheers
TomR
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Note that the PMD660 is completely different from the PMD661.
(Well, they are both made by Marantz.) So the battery life of
660 (feeding phantom power to mics?) is not related to the 661.
The point about NiMH cells ability to keep voltage high for
longer, while the Alkaline cells' voltage slowly declines, is a
valid point.
Flintstone
Both deck draw just about the same amount of power by themselves.
4w (660) vs 4.2w (661)
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yeah, I am not sure what Flinestones point was. I think we all realize the decks are not identical, though similar. That said, nimh are clearly a better technology for this type of device, regaurdless if it is a 660 or 661...
I can record a typical show right through setbreak and still have enough juice to listen to the entire show on the way home... (w/ my 660)]
W/ alkalines I'll be lucky to make it through a set...
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alright, I'm doing some more battery tests. I've got one battery test going right now, and I'll be doing several more over the next few days.
I now have the Tekkeon MP3450 (which has 10,000 mAH @ 5V), and I also picked up a set of four Duracell AA NiMH rechargeables (2,650mAH).
My whole rig is so small, that I just set it up on the corner of my desk here at work. everything is self contained in a small bag, so it's not intrusive at all. I'm testing the Tekkeon right now, started at 7AM, so I'm now ~3 hours into the battery test, and the battery meter on the Tekkeon has only lost one light (i.e. 7 out of 8 LED's on the battery meter are still lit). At this rate, the 16gb SDCH card (PNY, class 4) will fill up before the battery dies. I decided to do this test at 24/48, so that I have 16 hours on the card. When I leave work at 4PM, that'll be 9 hours. I can keep it running in the car and at home, but if the card fills up, I likely won't continue the battery test. I'll keep everyone updated with the results. Though my initial impression is this: as I was expecting and hoping, the Tekkeon is a huge overkill for the task of powering this deck. Which is great, because it's one less item that I need to worry about at a show. For reference, though, the Tekkeon mp3450 battery is approximately the same size as the PMD-661 itself. (not a problem for most shows I go to, as the overal gear bag is still very small, but it's not going to cut it for those absolute minimum footprint kind of shows).
Probably the test of the 2650 mAH rechargeable AA's will be more interesting, to see how much additional run time those give me over the 2:40 that I got from alkalines. for that test, I'll run 24/96 onto the same 16gb sdhc PNY (class 4) card. I expect that the 8 hours of 24/96 on the card will be more than the battery life of the rechargeable AA's, and it'll be a good (ie longer) test of 24/96 onto this sdhc card (which, my preliminary findings seem to suggest that 24/96 is not a problem on this card).
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Did the Tekkeon come with a tip that the 661 liked? The one included with the PP-99 I have was real lose and the 661 would lose power if shifted. I ended up hacking an old Creative JB3 wally cable that fits like a glove.
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Did the Tekkeon come with a tip that the 661 liked? The one included with the PP-99 I have was real lose and the 661 would lose power if shifted. I ended up hacking an old Creative JB3 wally cable that fits like a glove.
yes, the Tekkeon came with a right-angle tip that fits just as snugly as the one on the AC adapter that came with the deck. It's not a super tight fit, but I think it's snug enough that it won't be an issue at a show (even with some movement of the gear bag and some shifting of the gear itself).
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yes, the Tekkeon came with a right-angle tip that fits just as snugly as the one on the AC adapter that came with the deck. It's not a super tight fit, but I think it's snug enough that it won't be an issue at a show (even with some movement of the gear bag and some shifting of the gear itself).
That's good to hear. At some point (if you haven't already), can you give it the "360 rotation test"? The one I had with the PP-99 worked, but if rotated 90deg in any direction, the unit would cut off.
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time for some rig pics :)
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time for some rig pics :)
I'll have some pics after tomorrow (mine is arriving tomorrow and I plan on taking it to Charlie Hunter Trio)
and its almost time for Part 2 of this thread =D
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I can record a typical show right through setbreak and still have enough juice to listen to the entire show on the way home... (w/ my 660)]
W/ alkalines I'll be lucky to make it through a set...
I am a 660 user - but I figured I would chime in here. I generally use Energizer Ultimate Lithium batteries. They last a LOT longer than regular alkalines and they are very dependable (unlike old recharge-ables). The obvious drawback is the price which is a bit less than $10 for a 4 pack of AA's. That being said, I tape the opener and 2 sets w/out worrying about the battery draw. Also - given the cost of most of our rigs, spending an additional $10 is better than having a lost recording due to trying to save money on batteries. But...I also don't tape very much these days. For any 'must have' recording, I would suggest going this route. Unfortunately, I have never done a test of these to see exactly how long I could push them.
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ingsy, Thanks for sharing that information. Would you say with confidence that 4 lithium AAs will power your 660 for four hours? Five hours? Do you run mics that require phantom power?
Flintstone
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i used to get about 7 hours on a set of e2 lithiums in my old acm 660
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yes, the Tekkeon came with a right-angle tip that fits just as snugly as the one on the AC adapter that came with the deck. It's not a super tight fit, but I think it's snug enough that it won't be an issue at a show (even with some movement of the gear bag and some shifting of the gear itself).
That's good to hear. At some point (if you haven't already), can you give it the "360 rotation test"? The one I had with the PP-99 worked, but if rotated 90deg in any direction, the unit would cut off.
I just did the "360 rotation test" with the plug that came with the tekkeon - no issues at all. and the mp3450 battery test - just a quick update. We're now at 05 hour 45 minutes, and 6 of the 8 lights on the tekkeon battery meter are still lit. This battery is going to power the deck for a long time...
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ingsy, Thanks for sharing that information. Would you say with confidence that 4 lithium AAs will power your 660 for four hours? Five hours? Do you run mics that require phantom power?
Flintstone
I would say I could get at least 6 hours, maybe even 7 - but haven't run any real tests. Yes, I am always using phantom - the vast majority of the time powering schoeps ccm41 mics. I generally use the one set of batteries for the opener & 2 sets of main band - then save the batteries for use in remote controls, flash lights etc because they are still good, but (IMO) not reliable enough at that point to use for another show. I bet you could get these in bulk at Costco or Sam's Club but I haven't tried that yet.
Like I said - with a fresh set, there are no worries for running 3 sets of music & encore = ~ 4.5 hours.
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Wife just called and reported that I got a FedEx package delivery today from Georgia. Guess it's time to come clean. >:D
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Wife just called and reported that I got a FedEx package delivery today from Georgia. Guess it's time to come clean. >:D
Thankfully, it comes in a relatively small box. Assure her, "it's nothing important". ;)
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Wife just called and reported that I got a FedEx package delivery today from Georgia. Guess it's time to come clean. >:D
hehe, my FedEx tracking # shows that mine is in Memphis atm
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ALL Fedex packages are routed through Memphis first, regardless of where they are shipped from or where they are going.
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I noticed yesterday that Doug has updated his site, now including the warm mod 661, along with the concert and super mod. Also, he bumped the price on them all by $10, so looks like the $649 deal is over.
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We're now at 05 hour 45 minutes, and 6 of the 8 lights on the tekkeon battery meter are still lit. This battery is going to power the deck for a long time...
I'm now at hour 10 in my battery test. the tekkeon mp3450 still have 5 of 8 lights on the battery meter lit up. I'll probably shut it down sometime this evening, which looks like it'll be well before the battery dies. this battery is really fantastic.
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Wow, that battery with the extra pack would run that thing for a week!
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i absolutely loved my 2 tekkeon 3300s. fantastic batteries that i always recommend.
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I run the 660 with the 3300 forever, and still have green lights.
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alright, my tekkeon mp3450 test is over for the day. ~10 minutes shy of 15 consecutive hours. When I turned it off, the battery meter on the mp3450 still showed 3 out of 8 lights...
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Hope you don't mind me asking here but I know a lot of you have just bought the 661 mod - Do the prices on Doug's site include tax? Or when you order them (in US) do you get charged extra for tax?
Thanks
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Has anyone made the jump from the 660 to the 661? Was it worth it?
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Hope you don't mind me asking here but I know a lot of you have just bought the 661 mod - Do the prices on Doug's site include tax? Or when you order them (in US) do you get charged extra for tax?
Thanks
The prices on Doug's order page are exactly what you are billed, no tax.
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