Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Ask The Tapers => Topic started by: strick9nineprod on December 24, 2003, 02:09:06 PM
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just want to know other's views on the md format.
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MD=NFG ;)
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Ah, here's a few:
Pro's:
1. Small (great for stealthing)
2. Cheap media (and small too, pretty reliable as well)
3. Media does not get worn or chewed up
4. Generally good sound (especially the sharp units)
5. Great battery life
Con's:
1. Some people frown on MD tapes
2. Artifacts can find their way on a recording (sometimes)
3. Some units are fragile
4. Not worth fixing once a unit breaks
5. Lack of optical outs on recorders (grrr)
I'm sure i'll think of more as this thread progress.
I own the following portables: Sony E75 (blue and red models), Sharp DR7, Sony MZR50, Sony MZE33
I own the following deck: Sony MXD D5C
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Con: Lossy compression used in recording format.
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Con: Lossy compression used in recording format.
Yikes, how did i manage to forget the most obvious one? :o
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i have heard great recordings coming from both dat and md, i've also heard bad recordings from both. dat is good for a taper friendly type of enviroment, but for going stealth and giving the opportunity of getting caught and equipment damaged, i rather suffice for a md, than a dat. also, the only lossy format that bothers me is mp3.
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Hey, you asked for pros and cons.... lossy definately gets a mark in the con column. There are other possibilities for stealthing.... A JB3 comes to mind.
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i have heard great recordings coming from both dat and md, i've also heard bad recordings from both.
you have to think about the quality of the stock a/d stage in all of the above. md and jb3 a/d's are bad at best. when you get into something like a d100/m1 dat it gets better
depends on wether you are using a outboard a/d, if you want to add shitty a/d to the list of cons
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Hey, you asked for pros and cons.... lossy definately gets a mark in the con column. There are other possibilities for stealthing.... A JB3 comes to mind.
Absolutely, Atrac is a con...too bad a JB3 is so darn expensive...to an extent. Maybe in the future i'll splurge on a HD-based recorder.
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stealthing with a DAT deck happens all the time...I do it with a D100 with no problems....
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friends dont let friends use MINI DISC :)
peace
jk
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I am a MD taper (not by choice, only by budget) but I think that MD is good for a beginner rig, simply for how cheap it is. If you are still into taping after you use your MD rig for a while, then you know it will be worth it to upgrade.
One con of MD is that the recording time is only 80 min, unless you want to use LP mode which is a much more audible form of compression.
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stealthing with a DAT deck happens all the time...I do it with a D100 with no problems....
i wouldnt see why it would be hard to stealth any sony portable. they are all fairly small, and all have better a/d's and mic pres than the mds and jb3s do
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the biggest complaint is that mds only record for about 80mins and they'll skip. as for stealthing theres pretty much no difference, it all goes done the crotch the same. one of the best thing about dat decks is the back light. with all the flashing concert lights and security all over you, it can get pretty tricky trying to pull off a quick level check even if you have a mini mag-light.
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the compression is audible when played side by side with a dat tape recording in wav and or a jb3, everyone else is right the a/d is shit, doing tape flips after 80 mins is a PITA especially when you have to cut music. it is small and portable and that is a definite plus, but the cons outway the plus' and the taping and trading community frowns on MD sourced shows. ive used the sony mzg-750 and mzn-707 and while economical at the time for my rig, an upgrade was always in the future and now i own 2 d100 decks and couldnt be happier
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i for one do not frown upon MD sourced shows. for me it depends on who's taping. experienced tapers will pull off good recordings no matter the recorder.
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To be honest, i've heard some lousy dat recordings and some pretty decent MD recordings. Some of the shows i taped on my MD recorder sound pretty damn good. Plus, with all the noise in a concert, how likely are you going to hear any artifacts due to Atrac? Slim to none.
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Plus, with all the noise in a concert, how likely are you going to hear any artifacts due to Atrac? Slim to none.
hate to disagree, but on a decent playback system...compression always comes out....
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There are so many factors that go into a good recording...perhaps this is not the philosophical response you were looking for but the pros and cons of md have already been covered.
I say go out and get what you can afford and start the taping experience as soon as possible instead of holding out for better gear. Like most others on the list, I have fallen down the slippery slope, and happily so. At the same time, I believe that all the good gear does is increase the likelihood of a good recording. And increase the likelihood of fucking it up too! More boxes, more cables, more buttons and knobs, more power sources - you guys know what I'm talking about here.
I still get a big kick out of lots of my md recordings. My Morning Jacket has played here twice in the last year and a half or so. First time - CSBs, Sharp MD, small club. Second time - mics/board, UA-5, laptop, JB3, post matrix (larger venue). Hate to say it but that first recording just flat out sounds better. Not because of the gear, but like I said before, gear just increases the likelihood of getting a good sound, it doesn't guarantee it! It also increases the role you play in choosing and setting it up properly, which again, can be a good thing or a bad thing.
Right now I'm thinking about putting the md back in action for stealthing. My CSBs just don't drive the JB3 high enough and I'm not ready to buy new mics just for the odd stealth (I still have the md deck for digital transfers).
And if the recent blind tests put on by Brian have taught us anything, it's that in reality, lots of people can't tell the difference between gear, or if they can, they often prefer the 'worse' one, choosing it for tonal characteristics vs. musical accuracy.
There's always so much said about preamps, a>d and compression when a newbie asks about getting into the game. It's probably quite daunting. This is making me crave a big test - JB3, M-1, MD showdown. True blind. We could just fire some quality studio music into the recorders so we can keep it controlled. Anyone interested?
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i say a test like that is was past its due.
were you thinking digital or analog inputs, im thinking analog or we probably wouldnt be comparing jb3s and dats correct?
+T even for the idea
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Con:
A lot of people who use MD to tape don't have a standalone MD deck, or usually don't indicate whether their transfer was analog or digital - just talking from experience here. For people who have large music collections, the spectrum of what's acceptable becomes narrower. So sometimes, some amateur MD tapers are hard to tolerate (have you ever heard of an "amateur" DAT taper??).
I've come up with this rule when trading for minidisc-sourced shows:
Don't get it, unless
1. It came from the taper
2. you know the taper transfers shows digitally off MD
If those rules hold and it's A-quality, I say go for it.
As for taping, I think MD is just good practice for moving up the ladder. Once your "taping techniques" are down, you won't risk messing recordings up with -- or losing -- more expensive gear.
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fwiw, i have never had an md skip on me during recording. when i started out i patched with md for about a year and got some great tapes. i converted them digitall (albeit through a soundblaster live card which resamples unnecessarily) and they sounded great. it was cheap, convenient, highly portable, and it did the trick.
when i realized i wanted to run a full rig, especially after showing up to patch at a show and nobody was taping, i knew i wanted to get a higher quality set up if i was going to be the only taper. i went straight to laptop recording and skipped dat. but you can still pull decent tapes with an md and i say if it's a choice between getting one now and waiting till you have enough for dat and all the extras, get the md now. that one show you might miss if you had been waiting for gear will be worth it to have on md. plus as others have said it gets you going and you can start building up your experience as a taper....plus you can get a feel for whether or not this hobby is for you.
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I agree, I think the biggest issue with MD recordings is whether it was a digital or analog transfer to the computer. That said, I've heard some great MD recordings. I think David's right - better gear doesn't guarantee a better recording. I think it just raises the bar for the potential quality of the recording. In my experience, that means nothing if you don't have the techniques down.
Something else I'm surprised is not mentioned here - many MD decks don't allow you to change recording levels once you start recording. I suppose that's not a format issue, but an issue with recording with certain MD players. I know that I generally don't get the levels correct from the start...and if the sound guy raises the volume....
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Plus, with all the noise in a concert, how likely are you going to hear any artifacts due to Atrac? Slim to none.
hate to disagree, but on a decent playback system...compression always comes out....
Preach it, Nick. Don't even need a compressed/uncompressed comparison to hear the compression.
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Con:
A lot of people who use MD to tape don't have a standalone MD deck, or usually don't indicate whether their transfer was analog or digital - just talking from experience here. For people who have large music collections, the spectrum of what's acceptable becomes narrower. So sometimes, some amateur MD tapers are hard to tolerate (have you ever heard of an "amateur" DAT taper??).
I've come up with this rule when trading for minidisc-sourced shows:
Don't get it, unless
1. It came from the taper
2. you know the taper transfers shows digitally off MD
If those rules hold and it's A-quality, I say go for it.
As for taping, I think MD is just good practice for moving up the ladder. Once your "taping techniques" are down, you won't risk messing recordings up with -- or losing -- more expensive gear.
I'm an amateur dat taper...just bought a M1 and plan on learning a lot about taping so i can be as fabulous as the rest of you ;D
When i taped a bunch of shows this past Summer and Fall, i converted everything from my MD masters via line out (analog) on my MD deck to line in on my audigy 2 soundcard. I did many comparisons between the master MD a burned cdr just to make sure the conversion wasn't fouled up...it wasn't. I couldn't make out any differences at all. Now, that's not to say i don't believe in the pro's of a digitally converted master, i really do...but with my current equipment i just don't see the need to purchase another MD deck just for digital conversions...not yet at least. Of course, buying a audiophile soundcard is on the back of my mind as i consider this hobby a hell of a lot of fun and i'd like to get the best out of my recordings for preservations sake.
Now, i've heard some god awful MD recordings (typically featuring a cheap ass mic and no battery box). What did they expect? I did some research before getting a MD rig...bought the right MD recorder, a good pair of mics and a battery box and put it to use soon after at a Iron Maiden concert at MSG (nothing is more exciting than sneaking in the gear at MSG). The recording came out pretty solid, i went on a Maiden forum and offered up some B&P's to people to get it out to everyone. I also uploaded a shn copy to the shn newsgroup to share it out.
Feel free to pm me if you'd like to obtain some copies of my MD sourced shows, sure they have their flaws...due to their clumsy owner, but i think you might like what you hear ;)
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Feel free to pm me if you'd like to obtain some copies of my MD sourced shows, sure they have their flaws...due to their clumsy owner, but i think you might like what you hear ;)
I hear ya there - there are still a bunch of MD recordings with unknown transfer types in my collection just 'cause they sound good.
And hats off to getting stuff into MSG! I lose about 10 lbs in sweat getting stuff into a bar, so I could only imagine what that would be like.
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Feel free to pm me if you'd like to obtain some copies of my MD sourced shows, sure they have their flaws...due to their clumsy owner, but i think you might like what you hear ;)
And hats off to getting stuff into MSG! I lose about 10 lbs in sweat getting stuff into a bar, so I could only imagine what that would be like.
Me? Sweat? Nah! I almost got caught with my battery box...thank god i stuffed in a bunch of crap into my pockets to deflect attention...i whipped out a blank MD and the guard let me right through ;D
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i say a test like that is was past its due.
were you thinking digital or analog inputs, im thinking analog or we probably wouldnt be comparing jb3s and dats correct?
+T even for the idea
Yeah - analog inputs, but now that you mention it, we could isolate the sound of ATRAC compression by running optical into the md. I'll get on this when I'm back. Should have access to an M-1 as well.
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How about we just sum it up quickly: ;D
Pro's: You can listen to the show on the way home
Cons: Everything else
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How about we just sum it up quickly: ;D
Pro's: You can listen to the show on the way home
Cons: Everything else
I know that is becomming the case more these days
The last few times I've given guys a MD patch, and watched them miss music during "flips" I tell them when the show is over that I will be putting up a bit torrent in the next few days, and they always say "cool I think I will just get that" so I bet fewer MDs are even getting transfered
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How about we just sum it up quickly: ;D
Pro's: You can listen to the show on the way home
Cons: Everything else
You can buy a DAT car stereo deck and listen to DAT on the way home too... Or you can get a tapedeck and one of those tape/cd thingies plugged into the line out of the DAT... Or you can get a headunit with a 1/8" mini input...
So that leaves no PROs, huh???
JK, I don't mind MD if its the only source, rare source, FOB source, etc... I just want the best source possible out there, and for most things I collect, there are multiple sources - the MD usually being the lesser of which...
I have no idea what the price of MD is nowadays, but a Nomad 3 can be had for about $200...
Terry
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One time I let people listen to a MD recording with headphones right outside a club right after a show. I mean, the people had an easy time handling the thing, plus I wasn't worried about people hauling off a DAT that was 3 times the cost, or pressing lots of buttons that might cause a tape jam.
That would be a pro, I guess.. lol
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How about we just sum it up quickly: ;D
Pro's: You can listen to the show on the way home
Cons: Everything else
I have no idea what the price of MD is nowadays, but a Nomad 3 can be had for about $200...
Terry
Hmm, i saw the nomad running for twice that amount. I picked up my Sharp DR7 for $289 back in May and the price is currently $239 on audiocubes.
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you can get a new stripped down sharp unit for $80, a high end Sony for $300, or invest in the HHb portable unit for $1000+