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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: alogic on November 16, 2008, 08:00:39 PM
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Great forum, thanks to all.
I just got a Edirol R09HR, and I was wondering if I could get a Mic recommendation, I will be doing some shows, but for now mostly quiet nature recordings.
I will likely get one of the Church Audio Pre-amps down the road, but for now I am looking at a powered mic like the AT822 or Rhodes NT4. Are there any other powered mics in this price range that you folks would recommend with the R09HR? How do the Sound Professional and Church Audio Mics stack up, I am mostly interested in low noise and overall sound.
Thanks!
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Usually consider the mics first as THE most important to what you want to record, and NOT which mic best fits a recorder.
Usual rule of thumb:
Mics = 90-95% importance to recorded result
Preamp = 2.5-5% importance
Deck's A/D = 2.5% of audible result
The deck choice is mostly logistical: Ease of use, size, cost, remote powering ability, features. But not so important to recording ability/quality. You can fit an appropriate choice of mic for your purposes to any deck having suitably low noise preamplifier as is found in the 09HR model.
See tech review of this model at: www.sonicstudios.com/r09hrrev.htm (http://www.sonicstudios.com/r09hrrev.htm)
More general recording/recorder info on my site at: www.sonicstudios.com/tips.htm (http://www.sonicstudios.com/tips.htm)
Natural sounds recordings using HRTF type mic array into flash type decks may be of interest to you; these found at: www.sonicstudios.com/mp3.htm (http://www.sonicstudios.com/mp3.htm)
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Great forum, thanks to all.
I just got a Edirol R09HR, and I was wondering if I could get a Mic recommendation, I will be doing some shows, but for now mostly quiet nature recordings.
I will likely get one of the Church Audio Pre-amps down the road, but for now I am looking at a powered mic like the AT822 or Rhodes NT4. Are there any other powered mics in this price range that you folks would recommend with the R09HR? How do the Sound Professional and Church Audio Mics stack up, I am mostly interested in low noise and overall sound.
Thanks!
Get my cafs mics or CA-14 omni mics no battery box needed. Then if you find you dont have enough gain you can get one of my preamps. The Hr has a pretty good preamp built into it. Also as Len has suggested look at the DPA mics they are great very expensive but great mics.. My ca-14 has a large 14 mm diaphragm on it so its a very quiet mic even though the diaphragm on my CAFS is small its also very quiet. Good luck and let me know if I can be of any help in the future. Its always best to look around and listen to recording samples when considering a mic. I am not a big fan on the AT mics or the Rode I find them to not be very sensitive mics that require alot of gain.
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I just got a Edirol R09HR, and I was wondering if I could get a Mic recommendation, I will be doing some shows, but for now mostly quiet nature recordings.
For quiet nature recordings, the most important specs for the recorder are its noise level at various gain settings. For mics it's their self noise and sensitivity specs. Stealth recording of concerts have other requirement -- let's discuss that later.
How do you get low noise in a recorder? If you had a professional budget, you should buy a truly pro recorder with pro-quality pre-amps and A/D converters. If you don't have the pro budget, you have no choice but to buy one of the low-cost digital recorders.
None of the low-cost recorders (like the Edirol R09HR, M-Audio MicroTrack II, Marantz PMD-620, Zoom H2, Sony PCM-D50, Tascam DR-1, Olympus LS-10, Fostex FR2-LE) approach the professional recorders (Sound Devices 722, Zaxcom Deva, Sonosax SX-R4) for low noise specs. In my opinion, the way to get pro level noise performance with the low cost recorders is to use an external mic pre/ADC. The only low-cost recorders that allows an external mic pre/ADC are the M-Audio MicroTrack II and the Sony -D50, We recommend the MTII -- much less expensive. By itself, it has noise performance comparable to the Edirol, but it's lower cost (currently $235). Add a good mic pre/ADC to the MicroTrack (or other recorders with digital audio inputs) and the recorder becomes a "bit bucket", not influencing the sound in any way. The mic pre/ADC controls the sound quality and noise level. For mic pre/ADCs, you might have a look at our Mic2496 V2 and the Grace Lunatec V3. Either of those brings the performance of a low-cost recorder into the pro range. There are others, but not many that are portable.
How do you get low noise in a mic? For condensor mics in general, the larger the diaphragm, the lower the noise: a mic with a 1-inch diaphragm will have lower noise than a 1/4" mic. If you don't need a miniature mic for portability or stealth, concentrate on the larger mics. Choose a pair that has low noise and high sensitivity. Rode makes a bunch of mics that are known for low noise, reasonably sensitivity and are good values. If price is no object in your search for sound quality, have a look at the world class mics from DPA, Neumann, AKG, Schoeps and a few others. (We're DPA dealers and can offer good prices on those.)
If you need miniature mics for portability and stealth, in my opinion, there's no mic that has the combination of fine sound, excellent sensitivity and the lowest noise in its class than the DPA 4060. We use a tightly matched pair of them in our High End Binaural (HEB) mic set. It's not inexpensive (around $900 to $1000, depending on configuration) but in my opinion there's nothing else that approaches them. Combined with a low-noise recorder, they're as good as it gets for the combination of sound quality, low noise and portability. They'll work fine with your R09HR. (We have lower cost solutions too.)
If you're doing things like recording bird calls, you might consider a parabolic mic, like the folks at Telinga offer.
I will likely get one of the Church Audio Pre-amps down the road, but for now I am looking at a powered mic like the AT822 or Rhodes NT4.
You might know this, but it's a common misconception so it's worth repeating -- "powered" doesn't mean that the mic has a built in mic pre-amp. It only means that it doesn't require external phantom power to operate. Also, in my opinion, the AT-822 (and the -825) is not in the same class as the Rode NT4, not for sound quality and not for build quality.
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fucking vultures... full disclosure - the above 3 posters are all VENDORS, so take from it what you will.
listen, if your intent is to do nature recordings, i would suggest a preamp regardless of your mic choice. a preamp will give you gain and if necessary, power your mics. that said, the at 825 (if you get a pre) or at 822 would be a simple, easy way for you to get started. in fact there is an at 822 in the yard sale right now (no affilation):
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,113175.0.html
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I have the same needs as Alogic (R09Hr hot yet ordered, but about to), with the difference that I will record classical music concert.
Mostly it will be a piano or an ensemble with piano. Sensitivity and low noise are important, I guess;portability is necessary in terms of weight, but I don't need to "hide" mics, as I am the musician who plays.
That said I have been thinking about Rode nt4, but also about a couple of mics on a single bar (if possible, just to have one stand) and even stuff like Church Audio or others (I wonder if the could be shipped to Italy).
The question is: is there any "general" difference ( sound/placement/use/self noise/gain) between little mics like CA, SP or even DPA and the "full-bodied" mics (pass me the ugly term,please)?
I know that most little mics can be powered with a BB and the others need a Phantom supply, but my question involves different aspects.
thank you very much
c
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Great forum, thanks to all.
I just got a Edirol R09HR, and I was wondering if I could get a Mic recommendation, I will be doing some shows, but for now mostly quiet nature recordings.
I will likely get one of the Church Audio Pre-amps down the road, but for now I am looking at a powered mic like the AT822 or Rhodes NT4. Are there any other powered mics in this price range that you folks would recommend with the R09HR? How do the Sound Professional and Church Audio Mics stack up, I am mostly interested in low noise and overall sound.
Thanks!
I would suggest something like this...
(http://www.digifishmusic.com/public/images/TapersSection_AT-ART-09HR.jpg)
...not the clock :) but an external battery phantom supply and then you can use any full-size phantom powered mic pair. I really like the AT3032 omni mics for quietude recording work and also the NT4.
Then when/if you want to step up, save up for a Sound Devices MixPre and replace the phantom supply with it and go line-in on the R09HR and bypass its mic-pres. Indeed a MixPre and AT3032 / NT4 pairing is my preferred quietude rig.
Check my Freesound recordings for examples... (http://www.freesound.org/usersViewSingle.php?id=29541)
(http://www.digifishmusic.com/public/images/Freesound_ThunderRig.jpg)
Thunder - recorded from verandah - AT3032 (http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=62278)
(http://www.digifishmusic.com/public/images/Freesound_BeeBotherer1.jpg)
Bees recorded from trees - At3032 (http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=59467)
(http://www.digifishmusic.com/public/images/Freesound_RainRig.jpg)
Rainforest birds and rain - AT3032 (http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=57608)
(http://www.digifishmusic.com/public/images/Freesound_Close_Mic_Shore.jpg)
Quiet sea - NT4 (http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=53428)
digifish
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In my opinion, the way to get pro level noise performance with the low cost recorders is to use an external mic pre/ADC. The only low-cost recorder that allows an external mic pre/ADC is the M-Audio MicroTrack II, so that's what we recommend.
Not true. The Sony PCMD50 has optical inputs and outputs, better build quality than the MicoTrack II, and also has built-in microphones that sound pretty good.
For stealth situations, I have the PCMD50 and the Sonic Studios DSM-6L microphones that do not require a battery box because the D50 supplies sufficient plug-in power.
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Not true. The Sony PCMD50 has optical inputs and outputs...
Sorry, I forgot that. I corrected the original post.
the D50 supplies sufficient phantom power.
That's called "plug-in power", rather than "phantom power". "Phantom power" is usually used for 48 Volts.
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That's called "plug-in power", rather than "phantom power". "Phantom power" is usually used for 48 Volts.
Duly noted, thanks.
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fucking vultures... full disclosure - the above 3 posters are all VENDORS, so take from it what you will.
listen, if your intent is to do nature recordings, i would suggest a preamp regardless of your mic choice. a preamp will give you gain and if necessary, power your mics. that said, the at 825 (if you get a pre) or at 822 would be a simple, easy way for you to get started. in fact there is an at 822 in the yard sale right now (no affilation):
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,113175.0.html
Hey pal he asked me how my mics stack up I told him what mics I make that would be best for his application.. I also recommended that he tries my mics first and then if he needs to get a preamp he can buy it later on. I run my mics all the time with out a preamp for doing quiet recordings with the HR. So I was being very honest with him. I am not a vulture I am pretty sure this guy is aware of who I am. But thanks for your comments I spend alot of time helping people here with out flogging any of my gear......
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Thanks so much for the info folks. I am going to go with the Church Audio, CA-14 Cardioid. I don't see them on the eBay site, and I tried to private message Mr. Church but the gotcha system seems to be broke, can't send the message regardless of browser. I was able to send an email, not sure if it was the correct address. Any help?
Also, am I mistaken, or are you able to switch the capsules of the CA-14's between the Cardioid and Omni?
Thanks!
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Thanks so much for the info folks. I am going to go with the Church Audio, CA-14 Cardioid. I don't see them on the eBay site, and I tried to private message Mr. Church but the gotcha system seems to be broke, can't send the message regardless of browser. I was able to send an email, not sure if it was the correct address. Any help?
Also, am I mistaken, or are you able to switch the capsules of the CA-14's between the Cardioid and Omni?
Thanks!
The ca-14 and ca-14 Omni must be purchased separately they are not interchangeable If you need to get ahold of my my email is sales@church-audio.ca or cchurch32atcogeco.ca And you will get a response from the CEO of the company! not some employee lol..
Chris
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fucking vultures... full disclosure - the above 3 posters are all VENDORS, so take from it what you will.
<Snip>
I think that it is obvious to all, except maybe you, that these fellows are dealers. Their websites are noted in their posts (a hint that they are dealers) and some even mention that the gear is "theirs" or made by them. They are entitled to post their wares here. Would you expect them to recommend someone else's gear?
I think you were off base on this one even if you did mean well. All three of these vendors have been on this board for a long while and been of immense help to folks here, even those who have not bought their gear. You might want to consider their technical contributions to the general info stream alongside of your contributions to the general info stream when considering your criticism.
As usual, YMMV 8)
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I just posted this in another...post.
September of 2007 Digifish was looking for mics for nature work and settled on the 3032s. Read about the discussion here:
Mic Suggestions for nature work - Low Noise, < $1000 USD. (http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,91253.0.html)
Audio Technica 825 [AT825] (http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,84574.0.html)
Is this a good deal on a AT 822 (http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,64730.0.html)
Enjoy!
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Audio Technica 822 stereo mic (http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,113175.0.html)
If you are interested.